So... I'm never getting married. That's cool, right?

[apollyon]

Okay, before we get the obvious responses, I know I'm supposed to marry. Let's move on.

I've been struggling really hard with "same-sex attraction" for the last two and half years. I'm just going to call it being gay, if you want to call it something different, go for it. I don't care. Over theses past years I've had various successes and setbacks. However, the last few months have been exceptionally difficult, and I've fallen further than ever. Just to get it out in the open, I've only kissed another guy. We did not go so far as to have sex. I had rationalized my way into saying that I didn't care because if I was going to have to deal with this for the rest of my life, then I'd rather at least get some physical pleasure out of the whole deal. I now realize that was wrong, but only too late. I openly admit my mistakes, and I have plans to go and speak with the bishop as soon as possible. (I just moved into a new ward, and so it might be a week or two before I can meet with him) And I plan to tell him literally everything, haha. He will learn so much more than he wants to know, haha. Sorry, I promise this is serious.

Here's where I'm looking for some support. Being gay, I don't feel like it would be fair to my theoretical wife if I got married. I know some guys have done it, and good for them. I just feel like it would be a constant concern for her, because it is for me. I wouldn't want her to have to deal with that. It seems that it would be something always there, nagging us. And what if I do fall? Then I've ruined my marriage, scarred her irreparably, and I don't even want to consider what would happen if we had kids. In short, I think it would be unfair to my wife.

However, I also have an even more basic concern- who would want to marry me? Rightfully so, most women wouldn't even take a second look at me once they knew the truth. I still like women, and I would love to have someone to love for the rest of my life, but I doubt any woman out there would accept dealing with me. I've had a few discussions with women where they comment that they won't even date, let alone marry, someone who has looked at pornography. I suppose it goes without saying that for one that has kissed another man I won't even get a second look. And I don't blame them. I have failed in such a terrible way, it's not fair for me to expect their love when they've done the work to stay clean.

So, I have resigned myself to celibacy for the rest of this life. Gag. And then I leave it in God's hands as to whether or not I had a chance to marry. I don't think I did, struggling with this addiction, but that's His call. I'm planning on the Atonement to cover this for me, because I think in no other time have I needed it more.

I have made several plans for my single life, and I'm honestly excited for it. Do you realize how much time and money I'll have without a spouse or kids? I realize that isn't the best attitude to have, but really I'm consoling myself. I already feel the hole in my soul when I think that I'll never have anyone in this life. So I plan on ignoring that with being rich and awesome.

Anyway, what I'm really looking to hear is your opinion on my position. I'll take whatever. Am I justified in not wanting to ruin my wife's life? Or is there someone out there that would put up with that? (on an related note, would I want someone who is okay with my problems?) So yeah, that's it. Congrats on reading through this novel.

[Guest]

I think you're dealing with something very, very difficult in a very positive way. I think you're wise to consider that it would be too hard on both you and your prospective wife to try and live as a man who is not attracted to women. I love that you are embracing what you can do with the life you've been given. Talking to your bishop is great, mostly because I think you need and deserve his support. Best of luck to you.

[Misshalfway]

I just went to a SSA conference and there they had a panel of 5 couples where one partner had struggled with SSA. They talked very openly and honestly about their feelings, struggles, and decisions to either get married or stay married. I was particularly struck by the women and their decisions to stay with their gay husbands.

It was a very enlightening, hope filled conversation. I learned again how the Lord works amazingly and creatively on behalf of the individual. When we obey, He makes a way!

[Suzie]

Apollyon, thanks for sharing your story. First of all, let me say that I don't think for a second you have failed in "such a terrible way" as you described. I think it would be very ignorant and stupid for anyone who doesn't know what is like to struggle with same sex attraction to think you have failed or judge you harshly because of it.

Personally, I don't think it would be fair for any person (YOU particularly and your future wife) to marry under these conditions. Also the Church had discouraged "marriage" as a mean of trying to make someone "straight". I am not saying this is your case, but I believe marrying someone knowing you are gay is a false marriage (even if your wife to be knows about it) and will eventually cause a lot of pain and suffering. Why put yourself and her through all that? What about if children come into the picture?

I understand why you wouldn't want to marry under these conditions, I actually think it's very selfless, caring and considerate of you to think this way and I'm hoping whatever Heavenly Father has in store for you can be something really amazing that can help you deal with all this.

[apollyon]

Thanks guys. It is really nice to hear that I'm not crazy or something. I've been thinking on this for a while now, and I'm not looking forward to what it means. Can I just mention that? It means a literal lifetime of being alone. Yes, I can have friends and my family, but I'll never have love. *Puts on brave face* Oh well, that just means I get to be even more awesome than I already am.

Speaking of being awesome, anyone else running the Utah Marathon this October? I'm super excited for it.

On a different note, if anyone else is dealing with this or anything related, I'd be very interested in hearing about it.

[annewandering]

Apollyon, how old are you? It is smart to be honest with yourself. There are a lot of people that are never going to marry for a lot of reasons and I know they have to deal with loneliness. I think I would be working on ways to combat that. Service is always a good help.

Trusting God that you wont be forgotten is probably the best thing to remember. When you leave this life, knowing you have been faithful to your covenants it is going to be a very great day for you. He really isnt going to forget you and the sacrifices you make.

[Finrock]

Good evening apollyon! It is a pleasure to meet you. I hope you are having a good day today. :)

I want to say that I am struck with awe by your courage to speak about this and by your courage to stay true to the gospel. I don't know much of anything, much less about what it means to be in your situation, but I have struggled with addictions in my life and what has been the most damaging to me, particularly during the times when I have fallen...yet again...has been me letting go of hope. There is always hope and never let go of it.

I also don't think it is absurd for you to hope to one-day meet a woman who will accept you for who you are, weaknesses and all. In that respect, we all have to learn this skill when it comes to our spouses. I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't always recognized this trait in my wife, but through-out the years, she has stuck with me despite the damage my actions have done. So, I know there are people out there who are able to see others for their potential rather than just seeing their weaknesses or flaws (clarification: I am speaking about me being flawed, not you).

I guess that is my message. There is always hope, never let go of it.

With Respect,

Finrock

[Soulsearcher]

Thanks guys. It is really nice to hear that I'm not crazy or something. I've been thinking on this for a while now, and I'm not looking forward to what it means. Can I just mention that? It means a literal lifetime of being alone. Yes, I can have friends and my family, but I'll never have love. *Puts on brave face* Oh well, that just means I get to be even more awesome than I already am.

Speaking of being awesome, anyone else running the Utah Marathon this October? I'm super excited for it.

On a different note, if anyone else is dealing with this or anything related, I'd be very interested in hearing about it.

I'm a gay man just kinda starting to figure a few things out, always willing to talk if you ever want to. i've been engaged a few times and have come to the same conclusion you have about marriage.

[ClickyClack]

I have made several plans for my single life, and I'm honestly excited for it. Do you realize how much time and money I'll have without a spouse or kids?

I never did understand until I had kids myself. Just the food bills... I have personally been thanked by a checker at Costco for how much I spend there every month.

Anyway, being in your spot is a very tough place to be in. Plenty of people are never able to get married, due to orientation, health, or other reasons, and it's almost always tough. But where their lives ends up depends on how they choose to look at their situation. Those who decide that they're going to always strive for the best, look to God, and serve those around them turn out much better than those that allow themselves to simply become cynical or sarcastic.

[rameumptom]

SSA and being gay are two separate things. Being gay is a choice, while SSA is not a choice. Being gay is a behavior, based upon sex. SSA is a natural inclination some people have to others of the same sex.

Joshua Johanson, who has SSA, just spoke about this at the recent FAIR conference. You can read his talk here.

He and others, who have SSA, have been able to choose alternatives to just "being gay." And that is the key to this. There are some things under your control and power. Do not relinquish that power, simply because the world says you have no control over any of it. Instead, prayerfully look at the alternatives, and decide which is best for you and God.

There are some men with SSA who have found they can fall in love with one woman (and vice versa). They live a very happy life, even though the person still has SSA.

[bluedreams]

Ramuemptom,

That is not correct. Some people feel more comfortable with the label SSA some with Gay. Some use them interchangeably. Neither neccessetates actions or choice. Both infer attraction to the same sex.

Apollyon,

I really want to respond to you. Unfortunately, I'm about to run late to work. I'll have to throw in my 1.25 cents later (for whatever it's worth;))

With luv,

BD

[rameumptom]

Bluedreams,

There are two things going on here, and while they may be related, are not the same thing. SSA is a DNA innate nature. Not all people with SSA end up being gay, showing the behaviors, etc. While many use the terms interchangeably, this is the wrong thing to do, and we shouldn't allow such to be made equivalents.

There is a difference between someone who has a natural tendency towards any addiction and being an addict, for example. I come from a long line of alcoholics, however I am not an alcoholic myself. I am convinced that I do have the tendency towards it, though.

"Gay" is generally accepted as the choice made to act upon SSA. You'll note that in his speech, Johanson says he has SSA, but is NOT gay! To equate them is to doom all people with SSA to only one choice. But there are alternatives, as long as we do not allow words to become meaningless, because we lump them all together.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Okay, before we get the obvious responses, I know I'm supposed to marry. Let's move on.

I've been struggling really hard with "same-sex attraction" for the last two and half years. I'm just going to call it being gay, if you want to call it something different, go for it. I don't care. Over theses past years I've had various successes and setbacks. However, the last few months have been exceptionally difficult, and I've fallen further than ever. Just to get it out in the open, I've only kissed another guy. We did not go so far as to have sex. I had rationalized my way into saying that I didn't care because if I was going to have to deal with this for the rest of my life, then I'd rather at least get some physical pleasure out of the whole deal. I now realize that was wrong, but only too late. I openly admit my mistakes, and I have plans to go and speak with the bishop as soon as possible. (I just moved into a new ward, and so it might be a week or two before I can meet with him) And I plan to tell him literally everything, haha. He will learn so much more than he wants to know, haha. Sorry, I promise this is serious.

Here's where I'm looking for some support. Being gay, I don't feel like it would be fair to my theoretical wife if I got married. I know some guys have done it, and good for them. I just feel like it would be a constant concern for her, because it is for me. I wouldn't want her to have to deal with that. It seems that it would be something always there, nagging us. And what if I do fall? Then I've ruined my marriage, scarred her irreparably, and I don't even want to consider what would happen if we had kids. In short, I think it would be unfair to my wife.

However, I also have an even more basic concern- who would want to marry me? Rightfully so, most women wouldn't even take a second look at me once they knew the truth. I still like women, and I would love to have someone to love for the rest of my life, but I doubt any woman out there would accept dealing with me. I've had a few discussions with women where they comment that they won't even date, let alone marry, someone who has looked at pornography. I suppose it goes without saying that for one that has kissed another man I won't even get a second look. And I don't blame them. I have failed in such a terrible way, it's not fair for me to expect their love when they've done the work to stay clean.

So, I have resigned myself to celibacy for the rest of this life. Gag. And then I leave it in God's hands as to whether or not I had a chance to marry. I don't think I did, struggling with this addiction, but that's His call. I'm planning on the Atonement to cover this for me, because I think in no other time have I needed it more.

I have made several plans for my single life, and I'm honestly excited for it. Do you realize how much time and money I'll have without a spouse or kids? I realize that isn't the best attitude to have, but really I'm consoling myself. I already feel the hole in my soul when I think that I'll never have anyone in this life. So I plan on ignoring that with being rich and awesome.

Anyway, what I'm really looking to hear is your opinion on my position. I'll take whatever. Am I justified in not wanting to ruin my wife's life? Or is there someone out there that would put up with that? (on an related note, would I want someone who is okay with my problems?) So yeah, that's it. Congrats on reading through this novel.

I applaud you for being so brave to put this out there and ask these questions and share your concerns.

The bottom line is that Satan uses doubt and despair as one of his main tools. Those things are the opposite of the admonition of Paul, to maintain hope. Of course, this is easier said than done but in all things we are supposed to maintain hope of doing the right thing even if it is not possible in this life. We do actually get credit for what is in our hearts even if we cannot do the thing we are asked to do. This applies to all commandments. I couldn't find the talk but I am sure I remember a similar discussion about a family who couldn't make the trip to the temple to be sealed before one of them passed away. And essentially the talk said to not despair because what was in the person's heart was to go to the temple and be sealed to his family. The desire of the heart will continue in the next life without the burden and shortcomings of the challenges we face here.

I have a single girlfriend who had suffered a horrible injury to her face from a car accident. She had similar bouts of despair about ever getting married but remained active in the church. She is now 46 years old and has never dated anyone seriously until these last 6 months. I am not sure how this relationship will turn out but I know her desire to have an eternal marriage will be recorded in the end even if it doesn't happen here.

Boyd K. Packer; "Another young couple tearfully told me they had just come from a doctor where they were told they would be unable to have children of their own. They were brokenhearted with the news. They were surprised when I told them that they were actually quite fortunate. They wondered why I would say such a thing. I told them their state was infinitely better than that of other couples who were capable of being parents but who rejected and selfishly avoided that responsibility.

I told them, “At least you want children, and that desire will weigh heavily in your favor in your earthly lives and beyond because it will provide spiritual and emotional stability. Ultimately, you will be much better off because you wanted children and could not have them, as compared to those who could but would not have children.”

Still others remain unmarried and therefore childless. Some, due to circumstances beyond their control, are raising children as single mothers or single fathers. These are temporary states. In the eternal scheme of things—not always in mortality—righteous yearning and longing will be fulfilled."

[mnn727]

I have known men with SSA that have gotten married, some work, some do not.

I would agree though that if you date, before the dating gets to the serious point you would need to inform the woman.

There is more to marriage than sex, the older you get the less important sex is and the more importanant companionship and friendship becomes.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Bluedreams,

There are two things going on here, and while they may be related, are not the same thing. SSA is a DNA innate nature. Not all people with SSA end up being gay, showing the behaviors, etc. While many use the terms interchangeably, this is the wrong thing to do, and we shouldn't allow such to be made equivalents.

There is a difference between someone who has a natural tendency towards any addiction and being an addict, for example. I come from a long line of alcoholics, however I am not an alcoholic myself. I am convinced that I do have the tendency towards it, though.

"Gay" is generally accepted as the choice made to act upon SSA. You'll note that in his speech, Johanson says he has SSA, but is NOT gay! To equate them is to doom all people with SSA to only one choice. But there are alternatives, as long as we do not allow words to become meaningless, because we lump them all together.

I agree with what you are saying here. One thing to clarify, though, is What other choices are there besides SSA when someone is SSA?

When you say "To equate them is to doom all people with SSA to only one choice." I agree with the not equating the two SSA and "gay" but how is there more than one choice from SSA? If you could please clarify that without me trying to read into what you are saying here (as you have scolded me in the past for doing such a thing). What is the other choice between SSA and _____ ? (not "gay") ... if there is more than one choice from SSA that we do not want to "doom" them to.

[Traveler]

What does it mean to have faith?

Is faith a choice?

The Traveler

[Finrock]

Hi apollyon!

I was going to link to the article rameumptom linked to, but he beat me to it. Perhaps it is helpful to you.

It might be helpful for others to read the article as well so they can have the proper context to respond to what rameumptom is stating.

Regards,

Finrock

[Guest]

What does it mean to have faith?

Is faith a choice?

The Traveler

I'm not sure where you're going in relation to the OP, but I submit that faith is a choice. If you dig around in the scriptures, there are a few places that state that we gain and increase our faith by obedience to the commandments. Since obedience is a choice, faith is, too.

[Seminarysnoozer]

What does it mean to have faith?

Is faith a choice?

The Traveler

Not sure if you were responding to my post that was a response to Rameumptom's post. Just in case you were, I would point out that he used the word "alternative", " To equate them is to doom all people with SSA to only one choice. But there are alternatives, as long as we do not allow words to become meaningless, because we lump them all together." Is what he said.

If you are saying that faith is an alternative to SSA, please explain.

Common definition of alternative; " a choice limited to one of two or more possibilities, as of things, propositions, or courses of action, the selection of which precludes any other possibility: You have the alternative of riding or walking."

Is it possible to have faith and SSA at the same time? If the answer is yes (which I think it is) then faith is not part of the alternative "choice" when talking about SSA.

[bluedreams]

Rameumptom,

I'm just telling you what I've read and heard from various accounts of active members in the church that are gay or have SSA. Some say they have SSA, Some say they're gay, some use them interchangeably, a few prefer no labeling period. From what I've read from johansen's speech (not finished yet). He predominately states he has SSA, but there are points in it that he also ID's as gay. For example:

"The gay rights movement no more represents me just because I am gay than the feminist movement represents my wife because she is female."

And inferred here

"This paints a very unrealistic picture. It makes it seem gay people would be happy if only the church expanded its doctrine to include same-sex relationships. It ignores those of us who love and depend on the Church’s teachings on same-sex relationships."

In other words, I don't think he sees it as a primary identity, but he recognizes he has a part in it. What I got from it is that not all people with SSA or that are gay/bisexual act on it. Period. Similarly to how not all people who are straight will have sex.

With luv,

BD

[bluedreams]

K, I have a little more time right now. These are just my random thoughts as I read your post. Take it as you will.

Anyway, what I'm really looking to hear is your opinion on my position. I'll take whatever. Am I justified in not wanting to ruin my wife's life? Or is there someone out there that would put up with that? (on an related note, would I want someone who is okay with my problems?) So yeah, that's it. Congrats on reading through this novel.

In short: Yes, yes, and that’s up to you.

But I honestly don’t think those are the most important questions to ask. The more important ones focus on yourself and how you view you and being gay. Right now, from what you’ve written, it sounds like you view it as an irreparable weakness that will lock you down from what you really want. But to me that is not what God promises us at all. He promises that if we’re humble and have faith, our weak things will become strong unto us (paraphrasing ether 12:27). Being gay doesn’t need to be a hindrance to your life but may be an important factor for you to better understand the Lord and to do His work here on earth. In short, it’s only a hindrance and harms you if you allow it to. To me, if you’d get married, it would work best when you are okay with who/where you are and have the strength to live what God expects of you. I don’t know your future. I don’t even know most of mine. I may never marry too. The idea is extremely unappealing as I highly desire intimacy and children. But I trust God first and understand that I would not trade out one experience or struggle, not one (not even the worst ones that I tried to beat down, get rid of, run from, and ended up in bed in tears about because it just never seemed to end...not even the ones that have left me desperate, isolated, and feeling irreparably damaged), because the Lord has made them some of my greatest strengths and continues to do so. Whatever your future holds, I believe it will be bright.

Personally, I’d focus less on “will/should I ever get married” and more on “what does the Lord desire of me?” This will bring you the peace that you need. And I promise, it's always amazing.

With luv,

BD

[Traveler]

I was asking in general what does it mean to have faith? What many say and believe to be impossible becomes possible through faith. But can we not take that a step farther and say that through faith things not only become probable but likely and even certain?

Many have problems in marriage - To be honest there were time that I was quite sure that the fine lady and I could not resolve our differences and interesting she felt the same during such times. I have never met anyone more different that my wife and I. I am a nerd among nerds and she - well she was a cheerleader and social type. I am classic and jazz music - she is rock and roll. She loves tourist hot spots and 5 star hotels - I prefer backpacking and solitude. She loves fine dining and gourmet and I would just as soon have fresh fish cooked over a fire and ash cakes.

The only thing I can think of that we have in common is a love of the gospel - but even at that there are differences - I love exploring ideas and concepts and she thinks one either accepts the gospel or not - and it does not have to be logical or explainable - if you have read my posts you know that is not me. Oh and yes - we do have our grand kids in common.

My whole point??? If I can make my wife happy and thankful for marriage - any couple can be happy and thankful. And it is not because we are giving each other what we want. The reason is faith - faith in G-d, faith in marriage and faith enough to make personal sacrifices to the point of putting someone actually and really first. Anyone can have a successful marriage - but all it takes is one willing to put themselves first - seeking their own pleasures, desires and wants and that will ruin the best of marriages.

Faith, sacrifice, service and compassion for things and at times when none are expected, necessary or required make a marriage wonderful. Thinking you should get what you want, need, desire or should have is what ruins marriages.

Those that marry because of faith can build love. Those that marry for love based on personal desire - must either make sacrifices or create unhappiness and regret for both. Marriage is less about getting all you wand as it is appreciating and being thankful for all you get. But those that have already made up their minds to not be appreciative or thankful before they even start to consider marriage - yah! they will likely fail - and in my mind that is not faith in self or G-d.

The Traveler

[C_T_R]

Okay, before we get the obvious responses, I know I'm supposed to marry. Let's move on.

Um, I beg to differ. No, net everyone is "supposed" to get married in this life, and considering the things you're dealing with, you don't need to have that idea and added pressure. I vehemently disagree that everyone is supposed to get married in this life because not everyone is ready or mature enough to hold up their end of a very serious commitment.

You work on you.. however you feel you should. Don't worry about anything else.

[Dove]

Okay, before we get the obvious responses, I know I'm supposed to marry. Let's move on.

I've been struggling really hard with "same-sex attraction" for the last two and half years. I'm just going to call it being gay, if you want to call it something different, go for it. I don't care. Over theses past years I've had various successes and setbacks. However, the last few months have been exceptionally difficult, and I've fallen further than ever. Just to get it out in the open, I've only kissed another guy. We did not go so far as to have sex. I had rationalized my way into saying that I didn't care because if I was going to have to deal with this for the rest of my life, then I'd rather at least get some physical pleasure out of the whole deal. I now realize that was wrong, but only too late. I openly admit my mistakes, and I have plans to go and speak with the bishop as soon as possible. (I just moved into a new ward, and so it might be a week or two before I can meet with him) And I plan to tell him literally everything, haha. He will learn so much more than he wants to know, haha. Sorry, I promise this is serious.

Here's where I'm looking for some support. Being gay, I don't feel like it would be fair to my theoretical wife if I got married. I know some guys have done it, and good for them. I just feel like it would be a constant concern for her, because it is for me. I wouldn't want her to have to deal with that. It seems that it would be something always there, nagging us. And what if I do fall? Then I've ruined my marriage, scarred her irreparably, and I don't even want to consider what would happen if we had kids. In short, I think it would be unfair to my wife.

However, I also have an even more basic concern- who would want to marry me? Rightfully so, most women wouldn't even take a second look at me once they knew the truth. I still like women, and I would love to have someone to love for the rest of my life, but I doubt any woman out there would accept dealing with me. I've had a few discussions with women where they comment that they won't even date, let alone marry, someone who has looked at pornography. I suppose it goes without saying that for one that has kissed another man I won't even get a second look. And I don't blame them. I have failed in such a terrible way, it's not fair for me to expect their love when they've done the work to stay clean.

So, I have resigned myself to celibacy for the rest of this life. Gag. And then I leave it in God's hands as to whether or not I had a chance to marry. I don't think I did, struggling with this addiction, but that's His call. I'm planning on the Atonement to cover this for me, because I think in no other time have I needed it more.

I have made several plans for my single life, and I'm honestly excited for it. Do you realize how much time and money I'll have without a spouse or kids? I realize that isn't the best attitude to have, but really I'm consoling myself. I already feel the hole in my soul when I think that I'll never have anyone in this life. So I plan on ignoring that with being rich and awesome.

Anyway, what I'm really looking to hear is your opinion on my position. I'll take whatever. Am I justified in not wanting to ruin my wife's life? Or is there someone out there that would put up with that? (on an related note, would I want someone who is okay with my problems?) So yeah, that's it. Congrats on reading through this novel.

Hello, Apollyon;

First of all, thank you for your tactful honesty. Thank you for reaching out for support in a humble way.

Some thoughts that came to my mind are as what follows~ I saw a heterosexual couple on TV from BYU who both struggled with homosexuality. They both had SSA, yet were determined to make their marriage work. Could this be an option for you?

It seems you are setting the bar rather high against yourself as far as what a woman may think of you for being "gay." Yes, some woman may judge you as "less than," or refuse to consider you as spouse material, or reject you in some other way....Please know that, while I myself am pretty hetero (I really do like men in a romantic way), that didn't guarantee mormon men being attracted to me or seriously considering me as a potential spouse. I ended up marrying outside of our faith. As I've said many times here before, I love my husband dearly. Yet, I know I very probably have put my opportunity for exaltation in jeopardy. If you remained single, at least, in the end, it will give you a stronger opportunity for exaltation.

However, it does seem that you are open to having a member of the opposite sex as a companion in this life and maybe as an eternal companion in the hereafter. Is this something you would be willing to consider and would be happy with over the long term? If not, you are probably being very wise to not wish harm upon another child of God/children of God you may bring into this life.

Lastly, I strongly believe, at least for myself, that sexuality is a choice. That one can "learn" or be "exposed to" sexual feelings for just about anyone/anything. To me, sexuality and the pure Love of Christ are two different things. While one can love their spouse with the pure love of Christ, even through physical intimacy, still this is their choice to put the two together. My point being, that sex is not the end all in any relationship. Carnally speaking, it brings only temporary pleasure. While the pure love of Christ is eternal....

Just my .02 cents.

The best to you in your decision making.

Dove