Inability to let the past go for others?

[C_T_R]

My friend's older brother and his wife lived a lifestyle that was contrary to the teachings of the church when they first got together, and for many years after. It's only been in the last year or two that they've really turned things around, started going back to church and repenting. To me that is miraculous; beautiful; I feel the calm serenity of the Spirit just thinking of it. And this week they're going to receive their endowments and be sealed to each other and their 3 beautiful children. I am touched just thinking of that for them. The blessings and happiness and peace they have found and will continue to experience. And they're SUCH a beautiful couple. :) I love it.

My friend's other siblings are coming in town to be there for that, and one of his brother's is less than thrilled for them. I asked my friend why that would be the case? And he said because he knows his history. .... Sooo? ALL THE MORE reason to be excited for them! But he.. I don't know.. apparently doesn't think he's worthy to receive these blessings.

This bothers me. Probably more than it should because I can't judge where the unhappy brother is coming from exactly. I know I've seen him and his wife do this before with others in the family who've taken positive steps after committing sin. I'm just like.. incredulous that they would feel reservations about people who hadn't sinned against them or anything.. and not embrace the power of the atonement in its fullest.

I'd love to hear any comments or thoughts on this.

Let people repent. Let people grow. Believe that people can change and improve. Is that faith? Yes! Is that hope? Yes! Is that charity? Yes! Above all, it is charity, the pure love of Christ. If something is buried in the past, leave it buried. ..... Such dwelling on past lives, including past mistakes, is just not right! It is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. In some ways it is worse than Lot’s wife because at least she destroyed only herself. In cases of marriage and family, wards and branches, apartments and neighborhoods, we can end up destroying so many others. ..... The proviso, of course, is that repentance has to be sincere, but when it is and when honest effort is being made to progress, we are guilty of the greater sin if we keep remembering and recalling and rebashing someone with his or her earlier mistakes—and that someone might be ourselves. We can be so hard on ourselves—often much more so than on others!

-Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, The Best Is Yet To Be

[Anddenex]

My friend's older brother and his wife lived a lifestyle that was contrary to the teachings of the church when they first got together, and for many years after. It's only been in the last year or two that they've really turned things around, started going back to church and repenting. To me that is miraculous; beautiful; I feel the calm serenity of the Spirit just thinking of it. And this week they're going to receive their endowments and be sealed to each other and their 3 beautiful children. I am touched just thinking of that for them. The blessings and happiness and peace they have found and will continue to experience. And they're SUCH a beautiful couple. :) I love it.

My friend's other siblings are coming in town to be there for that, and one of his brother's is less than thrilled for them. I asked my friend why that would be the case? And he said because he knows his history. .... Sooo? ALL THE MORE reason to be excited for them! But he.. I don't know.. apparently doesn't think he's worthy to receive these blessings.

This bothers me. Probably more than it should because I can't judge where the unhappy brother is coming from exactly. I know I've seen him and his wife do this before with others in the family who've taken positive steps after committing sin. I'm just like.. incredulous that they would feel reservations about people who hadn't sinned against them or anything.. and not embrace the power of the atonement in its fullest.

I'd love to hear any comments or thoughts on this.

-Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, The Best Is Yet To Be

When I hear this I am reminded of the story of the prodigal son, and am thankful for the example of the Self Righteous brother who could not rejoice as his father rejoiced in the son which was lost, but is now found.

I feel this is why we are told faith, hope, and charity lead all to do good things. It appears this brother has faith and hope, but as with a lot of people, including myself, charity is not as easy as faith and hope.

It appears this brother is drinking 'pickle juice".

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah. Some people mistakenly think the blessings of repentence is sort of a reward for the bad behavior one is repenting of. Much of the time, those folks are having a hard time forgiving the former sinner.

[Vort]

It appears this brother is drinking 'pickle juice".

Not sure about this. The older and more faithful brother's problem seemed to be less about jealousy and more about feeling unappreciated. The father seemed to be acknowledging this, telling him in effect, "Your reward is constant and safe. You are neither forgotten nor unappreciated. You have everything. So take joy in your brother's return."

EDIT: I have little to say about the OP. I have myriad failings (hard though that will be for many of you to believe), but being jealous of my siblings or holding grudges for their sins that had/have nothing to do with me is not among them. I don't really understand such feelings, unless you actually hate and despise the person and hope for his pain -- which does not sound like the case here.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Vort

[estradling75]

I am reminded more of the parable of the 11th hour laborer

Matthew 20:2 

[Seminarysnoozer]

My friend's older brother and his wife lived a lifestyle that was contrary to the teachings of the church when they first got together, and for many years after. It's only been in the last year or two that they've really turned things around, started going back to church and repenting. To me that is miraculous; beautiful; I feel the calm serenity of the Spirit just thinking of it. And this week they're going to receive their endowments and be sealed to each other and their 3 beautiful children. I am touched just thinking of that for them. The blessings and happiness and peace they have found and will continue to experience. And they're SUCH a beautiful couple. :) I love it.

My friend's other siblings are coming in town to be there for that, and one of his brother's is less than thrilled for them. I asked my friend why that would be the case? And he said because he knows his history. .... Sooo? ALL THE MORE reason to be excited for them! But he.. I don't know.. apparently doesn't think he's worthy to receive these blessings.

This bothers me. Probably more than it should because I can't judge where the unhappy brother is coming from exactly. I know I've seen him and his wife do this before with others in the family who've taken positive steps after committing sin. I'm just like.. incredulous that they would feel reservations about people who hadn't sinned against them or anything.. and not embrace the power of the atonement in its fullest.

I'd love to hear any comments or thoughts on this.

-Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, The Best Is Yet To Be

I used to be a lot more judgmental than I am now, still working on it. I think it might be because I am driven and even self critical. The thing that helped me turn that around though was to develop a testimony of who we really are. When Jesus said, forgive them for they know not what they do, I think that has to be couched in Jesus' ability to recognize who these spirits really are and the true nature of those spirits. He could see the sinner as his brother or sister, as they really are.

One of the concepts that helps us understand who we really are is to appreciate the fact that we are dual beings in this mortal probation. We are a spirit being and a physical being. Our spirit self kept the first estate. We all passed. In other words, we all have faith in Christ. But for most, when placed in the physical body with its influences, the spiritual nature of that person is darkened and becomes less of an influence on that individuals character, personality and actions. Taken out of the body, however, if they have not developed a love for those traits of the carnal being, they are not that way. In other words, if they know not what they do, they don't want it, it is not a desire of their heart, then it is not their real self. Our ability to see what comes from the physical being and what comes from the spiritual being of any individual does not really exist. This is why we cannot judge another, unless given Priesthood authority to do so (even then it is not man judging but God). We cannot easily discern spirit influences from carnal ones in any given individual. When that is kept in mind, it is much easier to forgive 7 times 70.

[C_T_R]

Wait.. was the pickle juice related to a parable? I was thinking you chose an alternative to kool aid.

Great feedback. Thank you everyone. I have to remind myself not to judge the brother who's judging the repented brother. It's hard for me to understand but then I'm outside the situation looking in so I'm not going to judge anything... not that I would judge anything if I were in the situation... oh boy.

All I want to say is the atonement is real. That we should forgive others and let them grow. We should forgive ourselves as well of our past mistakes. Guilt and sorrow for sin should only be a means to an end (repentence), not the end. And that's the end of my thoughts at this time. :)

Edited August 15, 2012 by C_T_R

[Anddenex]

Not sure about this. The older and more faithful brother's problem seemed to be less about jealousy and more about feeling unappreciated. The father seemed to be acknowledging this, telling him in effect, "Your reward is constant and safe. You are neither forgotten nor unappreciated. You have everything. So take joy in your brother's return."

EDIT: I have little to say about the OP. I have myriad failings (hard though that will be for many of you to believe), but being jealous of my siblings or holding grudges for their sins that had/have nothing to do with me is not among them. I don't really understand such feelings, unless you actually hate and despise the person and hope for his pain -- which does not sound like the case here.

I am connecting "pickle juice" to any time a person is unable to rejoice in another's accomplishment.

My "pickle juice" comment was in connection with the OP's statement regarding the brother who is unwilling, at the moment, to find joy in a brother's return, not the prodigal son's brother.

Thank you for the insight, I have never interpreted the prodigal son as feeling unappreciated. My mind always stopped at the older son not happy that a fatted calf was killed for a disobedient child, and the older brother was feeling jealous, not unappreciated. Thanks for the insight.

[Vort]

I am connecting "pickle juice" to any time a person is unable to rejoice in another's accomplishment.

My "pickle juice" comment was in connection with the OP's statement regarding the brother who is unwilling, at the moment, to find joy in a brother's return, not the prodigal son's brother.

Thank you for the insight, I have never interpreted the prodigal son as feeling unappreciated. My mind always stopped at the older son not happy that a fatted calf was killed for a disobedient child, and the older brother was feeling jealous, not unappreciated. Thanks for the insight.

Ah. The antecedent to the original "this brother" references the OP, not the parable. Sorry. My bad.

[Dove]

Hello, CTR;

Thanks so much for the quote by Elder Holland~I felt much encouraged reading it through...

I've read everyone's responses and I would like to bring up a point that doesn't seem to have been addressed yet. Here goes~

Some of the posts have spoken about having charity. Can we feel charity/love/forgiveness for those who don't look like they have repented of their obvious sins? And when we see a person "sinning," can we refrain from judging them/their intent even if the sin is against us? I'm talking about many things; i.e., adultery, gossip, lying (or bearing false witness against another) etc. In the four gospels the Savior counsels us to "turn the other cheek," "go the extra mile" and "resist not evil." Stronger counsel is given to even "love our enemies." The gist of the reference is that loving those who love us is no cause for reward. But, to love our enemies is the real test, that we may be like our Father-in-Heaven, who makes the sun rise upon the wicked as well as the righteous....

So, again, my question is, can we truly love and pray for our "enemies." Wishing them the best?

I am struggling with someone in a position of authority over me right now. I am quite angry and hurt by this person. I've felt the Spirit tell me to respect him/her. I have been striving for this, especially in my thoughts, where most of my ill will spawns from. For me, it is becoming a beautiful process of letting go and letting God. To not take it personal. Actually, that quote by Elder Holland did make me feel much better, as I have felt quite judged and treated unfairly by this person. It helps me feel better to know that God knows the efforts I have been making to change and improve, even if this person sees only the bad about me.

Dove

[Blackmarch]

My friend's older brother and his wife lived a lifestyle that was contrary to the teachings of the church when they first got together, and for many years after. It's only been in the last year or two that they've really turned things around, started going back to church and repenting. To me that is miraculous; beautiful; I feel the calm serenity of the Spirit just thinking of it. And this week they're going to receive their endowments and be sealed to each other and their 3 beautiful children. I am touched just thinking of that for them. The blessings and happiness and peace they have found and will continue to experience. And they're SUCH a beautiful couple. :) I love it.

My friend's other siblings are coming in town to be there for that, and one of his brother's is less than thrilled for them. I asked my friend why that would be the case? And he said because he knows his history. .... Sooo? ALL THE MORE reason to be excited for them! But he.. I don't know.. apparently doesn't think he's worthy to receive these blessings.

This bothers me. Probably more than it should because I can't judge where the unhappy brother is coming from exactly. I know I've seen him and his wife do this before with others in the family who've taken positive steps after committing sin. I'm just like.. incredulous that they would feel reservations about people who hadn't sinned against them or anything.. and not embrace the power of the atonement in its fullest.

I'd love to hear any comments or thoughts on this.

-Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, The Best Is Yet To Be

I feel sorry for that bro.... Its going to eat him alive and kick him where the sun dont shine if he cant forgive.

[Anddenex]

Wait.. was the pickle juice related to a parable? I was thinking you chose an alternative to kool aid.

Great feedback. Thank you everyone. I have to remind myself not to judge the brother who's judging the repented brother. It's hard for me to understand but then I'm outside the situation looking in so I'm not going to judge anything... not that I would judge anything if I were in the situation... oh boy.

All I want to say is the atonement is real. That we should forgive others and let them grow. We should forgive ourselves as well of our past mistakes. Guilt and sorrow for sin should only be a means to an end (repentence), not the end. And that's the end of my thoughts at this time. :)

When I used "pickle juice" I was thinking about Elder Holland's talk this past general conference with regards to envy. However, I used it in reference to someone not rejoicing in another brother's return.

[C_T_R]

I am struggling with someone in a position of authority over me right now. I am quite angry and hurt by this person. I've felt the Spirit tell me to respect him/her. I have been striving for this, especially in my thoughts, where most of my ill will spawns from. For me, it is becoming a beautiful process of letting go and letting God. To not take it personal. Actually, that quote by Elder Holland did make me feel much better, as I have felt quite judged and treated unfairly by this person. It helps me feel better to know that God knows the efforts I have been making to change and improve, even if this person sees only the bad about me.

Dove

Hey Dove, no problem. Listen, your business is between you and God. People trying to interfere with that are way out of line. I've experienced some of that myself and the people are *desperately* trying to get away from *any* introspection so they projected all kinds of stuff on me. It really is their problem. :) I know where I stand with God, and truth be told if these particular people thought I was a good person I'd be concerned. I know I'm on track when stuff like this happens.

Can you love your enemy? Sure. I've experienced some of that. Who's our enemy tho really? That's a bit dramatic. Loving your enemy doesn't mean allowing them to continue to abuse you tho. It's saying I forgive you, I wish you the best, sianara suckah!

[skalenfehl]

We are told over and over to forgive. Our Savior has declared that He will forgive whom He will forgive, but of us it is required to forgive all. How can we approach the Lord, even in prayer, when we hold a grudge toward anyone, even in the least degree? We betray ourselves. Harboring grudges, hatred, judgments, etc is like drinking poison hoping it kills the other person.

Joseph Smith said, "If you do not accuse each other, God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven, and if you will follow the revelations and instructions which God gives you through me, I will take you into heaven as my back load. If you will not accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I will over yours for charity covereth a multitude of sins..."

If we cover each other's sins with forgiveness, then Christ will cover our sins when He becomes our advocate and mediator to the Father. If we refuse to forgive one another, we fall short of obtaining Christ's mercy for by our own standard we will fail. We cannot compare to the perfected Redeemer and stand condemned by our own standard. We literally condemn ourselves when we fail to learn perfect love.

[Dravin]

How can we approach the Lord, even in prayer, when we hold a grudge toward anyone, even in the least degree?

Because if something is suggesting or hinting to us we shouldn't pray, well...

8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.

[skalenfehl]

Then let us pray always that we never enter into temptation, especially the temptation to accuse one another. It's all part of the process. This was so important that the Savior gave this instruction to two nations, one on a mount and one at a temple. Jesus Christ literally gave us instructions on how to become celestial material. Even while He hung on a cross in Godly agony, He was a living example of holding no grudges:

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Will Christ throw a cloak of charity over their sins? Perhaps. But it is His call. But if the Son of God can express such a charitable plea as their mediator, then, boy, we better darn well follow in His footsteps for our own sake and forgive each other our trespasses.

[estradling75]

I am not sure its about forgiveness... I think at it's core it is about a sense of fairness that is misapplied.

We believe that God is Just and Fair then we with our limited understanding see something that we don't think is fair and we take it poorly.

In the 11th hour laborer story the 1st hours worked hard all day long for what they got.. Only to find out that had they been an 11th hour laborer and done much less work they would have gotten the same pay... So the protest saying in essence "That is not Fair."

The Good son works hard for his dad over years while watching the Prodigal get his inheritance with out much work. Then the Prodigal spends it all having 'fun.' One is fun is done then he returns and Dad throws a party for him... Again the Good Son's protest is in essence, "That is Not Fair."

In the OP is seems likely that the one brother in question had watched as the other brother went off and broke all the rules and had his 'fun' while he labored to do everything right. Now he sees that same brother lining up to receive all the blessing he has and he could be very well saying in his heart, "That is Not Fair."

The problem with that is that its a comparison being made between two people from a limited understanding and because of that limited understanding it seems like someone else got a better deal then then person that "did" what they are "suppose" to. They think that the other path was easier or better then the 'right' path.

But it is not. Lets take a look. The 11th hour laborer was looking for work, most likely because they had a family to feed and take care of. So they show up to get work and get nothing, for the bulk of the day they have to sit there with a growing sense of failure. Worried about how they are going to put food on the table. Thinking that they might have to go home a failure. Worry and stress rises throughout the day as others get work and they do not. Until at the very last minute an offer comes to work and they take it figuring even a small wage is better then none. While the 1st Hour laborer simply has to work, knowing that he had been successful. Seeing it this way do you really think the first 1st Hour laborer would trade places to go from surety to unknown and risk of failure? Did he really get that bad of a deal?

The Prodigal had is fun, but the Good Son didn't see him brought low. Didn't see the fact that the Prodigal realized that pigs were eating better them him. Didn't see that he got humbled so hard that he figured it would be better to come back as a servant of his father because then at least he would have food. If the Good Son had, maybe just maybe he might realize that the Prodigal didn't really get a good deal. That the Prodigal paid a very, very high price for his 'fun.' A price the Good Son would not have to do.

I think it very likely that for the OP the brother in question doesn't understand what his returning brother had to go through to repent. To turn his life around, to break away from his old lifestyle and struggle to do the right thing. If he did I don't think he would be acting the way he is.

But as long a people judge and compare imperfectly these kind of stories will continue to repeat themselves

Edited August 16, 2012 by estradling75