Random words on my testimony

[Backroads]

Like many, I have times of questioning over the years, but when all is said and done I have a testimony of Heavenly Father and the truth of the gospel and the Book of Mormon.

And yet... I really have little to no interest in much of religious doctrine. I know I should search, ponder, and pray, and I study my scriptures and I read gospel-centered books, but I've come to realize my testimony is not based on all the nitty-gritty doctrinal details.

I bring this up because of a recent conversation I had in which someone said I had no right to claim a testimony unless I am deeply studying church doctrine.

To me, that just doesn't feel right. I'm not knocking church doctrine or anything, but just where is my testimony supposed to be based?

Edited August 21, 2012 by Backroads

[classylady]

Testimony should be based on receiving a witness from the Spirit. You can study all the doctrinal knowledge available and still not have a testimony. Whenever doubts are placed in my mind, I can always remember back to when I received a witness by the Spirit, and my doubts disappear. It's the witness that I received that brings me peace of mind and strength to continue on with whatever stumbling blocks that are placed before me. I'm so grateful that many years ago I received an answer to my prayers about the truthfulness of the Gospel.

Edited August 21, 2012 by classylady

[Anddenex]

I bring this up because of a recent conversation I had in which someone said I had no right to claim a testimony unless I am deeply studying church doctrine.

To me, that just doesn't feel right. I'm not knocking church doctrine or anything, but just where is my testimony supposed to be based?

If these are the correct words this individual used then this would be incorrect. When I hear this, my first thoughts take me to children. Children do not deeply study church doctrine, yet, they are able to gain a testimony through the avenue of prayer.

Although reading the scriptures influences our testimony and strengthens our testimony, a testimony as classlady shared is given by the spirit. What does this say about converts also, who have only read the last chapter in the Book of Mormon, prayed, and the Lord witnessed the truth?

Although I disagree with this sentiment, I find truth in it as well. The more we study the deeper our understanding of truth grows. The deeper our understanding, the deeper our testimony will grow.

I am reminded of Abraham's desire for more knowledge, and more righteousness, and also to have greater knowledge. The more knowledge he gained the deeper his testimony grew. However, the testimony did not grow because of a deep study of the doctrines, the testimony grew because of the knowledge which was given unto him by the power of the Holy Ghost.

[Vort]

To me, that just doesn't feel right. I'm not knocking church doctrine or anything, but just where is my testimony supposed to be based?

Testimony is revelation. Period. Your testimony of some gospel principle or another is a divine witness you have received. That witness can take many shapes, but in the end, that's what a testimony is. That is ALL a testimony is.

[Windseeker]

I bring this up because of a recent conversation I had in which someone said I had no right to claim a testimony unless I am deeply studying church doctrine.

You have a right to be disturbed by this comment.

Since this individual is so deep in his study of church doctrine is there any scriptural or doctrinal basis to his assertion?

Perhaps he missed this little bit of "deep" doctrine -

Who am I to judge another

When I walk imperfectly?

In the quiet heart is hidden

Sorrow that the eye can’t see.

Who am I to judge another?

Lord, I would follow thee.

(“Lord, I Would Follow Thee,” Hymns, no. 220)

WORD

[Backroads]

Granted, this person is quite spiritual. Just loves his deep doctrine study. And I'm sure he gets a lot out of it.

I just have very little interest in doctrine. I feel the Spirit when I read scriptures, pray, meditate, spend time outside. I like reading about Jesus Christ, but whenever I read books on doctrine, I might find it interesting, but I rarely feel the spirit.

He claims I don't know enough about the Church, and perhaps he's right, but I feel comfortable in the basics.

[slamjet]

Gifts, to some it is given to know through revelation, to others it is given to know through others. For him to say that is unfortunate and shows a deficit in understanding how powerfully the spirit of truth can work.

I'm not a scriptorian by any means. But my experience, how I have felt the spirit working in me and the miracles I've seen granted to me have given me what I consider an unshakable testimony and loyalty to the gospel and to the church. But there are so many in my ward who have just as unshakable testimony who have huge storehouses of knowledge in the gospel. If one of them were to challenge my testimony, I would quote them my first sentence and tell them to keep studying. But then, for all the testimony I have, I'm still not nice.

[Misshalfway]

Backroads,

Your original post was rather validating. Sometimes I've been interested in deeper doctrine. Other times, I've felt a short lived interest in church history. But all too often, I find myself feeling rather .... well, bored.

I appreciate whatever study I have under my belt and the history/doctrinally based books or talks I've experienced. But I don't feel the strong spiritual influence I do when I'm simply reading the scriptures or listening to general conference. The older I get, the less interested I am in where Brigham Young bought his knickers or how the earth was created. Maybe that makes me less smart than others. But I'm ok with that. I really find that my heart longs to develop the basic concepts like faith, hope, and charity. Maybe that is just where I am in my journey. It must be what I need cause that's what I'm hungry for.

And I like what others have said about spiritual answers. Sometimes I get answers when I pray. Most of the time, I feel the spirit just throughout the day. And often my knowledge comes when the spirit leaves me to struggle...or maybe it comes after. God said he's sent us here to get experience. I have to believe that experience is just as essential to our testimony building. At least that seems to be the way He teaches me.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Misshalfway

[applepansy]

Granted, this person is quite spiritual. Just loves his deep doctrine study. And I'm sure he gets a lot out of it.

I just have very little interest in doctrine. I feel the Spirit when I read scriptures, pray, meditate, spend time outside. I like reading about Jesus Christ, but whenever I read books on doctrine, I might find it interesting, but I rarely feel the spirit.

He claims I don't know enough about the Church, and perhaps he's right, but I feel comfortable in the basics.

You have a testimony because the Spirit bore witness to you. The individual you are talking about either doesn't understand that basic and very simple reality or he's so immersed in the doctrine that he has forgotten.

Thank you for posting this.

[Backroads]

MissHalfway, you really nailed how I feel about that stuff! I've actually gone as far as describing my spirituality as more of a relationship with God and Christ with the bread & butter of LDS doctrine.

[RipplecutBuddha]

On the one hand, it's very fascinating to me how the doctrines work together, compliment each other, etc. and knowing the church history behind it makes it an even more interesting study.

However, at the end of the day, none of that can tell me whether it's true or not. It's one thing to have an intellectual understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. However that's not the same thing as knowing whether it's true or not.

I have an intellectual understanding of the Nazi brand of facism, yet you'll never catch me endorsing any of it. Same with Communism.

However, as has been mentioned earlier, I know the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true and essential to our happiness here and in the next life. I didn't gain this knowlege from study, but from a simple heartfelt prayer uttered while on my knees. Everything I've learned about the gospel since then has merely shored up what I already know is true.

[daboosh]

Testimony should be based on receiving a witness from the Spirit. You can study all the doctrinal knowledge available and still not have a testimony. Whenever doubts are placed in my mind, I can always remember back to when I received a witness by the Spirit, and my doubts disappear. It's the witness that I received that brings me peace of mind and strength to continue on with whatever stumbling blocks that are placed before me. I'm so grateful that many years ago I received an answer to my prayers about the truthfulness of the Gospel.

Exactly. And unfortunately this received witness is something people tend to forget.

When you receive that witness it is absolutely imperative you don't ever let go of that what was revealed to you.

Don't ever let anybody try and compromise what you feel is real.

[Misshalfway]

MissHalfway, you really nailed how I feel about that stuff! I've actually gone as far as describing my spirituality as more of a relationship with God and Christ with the bread & butter of LDS doctrine.

Seriously.

Who cares how much you "know" if you are far away from the Master.

[Misshalfway]

Don't ever let anybody try and compromise what you feel is real.

Not even the church.

[skippy740]

Studying is not the same as having a spiritual witness and relationship with the Savior.

Keep this in mind: There was a reason why the church had the RS/Priesthood studying out of the Gospel Principles manual for a couple of years.

The Challenging and Testifying Missionary

As I look back into my first mission as a young man, I remember one of my companions. He was a very brilliant student. He came into the mission at 20 with a doctor's degree. He had gained that in mathematics, and perhaps because of his training and his scholastic abilities, had in his mind solely that conversion to the gospel was a matter of detailed mechanism made possible by forceful teaching and the presentation of certain gospel facts that people might then, by power of argument, be made to accept the truth. I remember that everything about that bothered me because it did not seem to me the way to preach the gospel. He was the most wonderful of companions. He is today one of the most successful architects in America. He became a professor at Brigham Young university on his return from that mission and himself has lived to change his ideas about conversion to the gospel. We had many long, long discussions about this in the hills of Pennsylvania. When we could not find lodging with the people, we would lie on our grass or bough beds made up in scout fashion, and talk about this. I used to emphasize then, when I was only 18, that the way to teach the gospel was by the "Power of the Holy Spirit." This has been with me all my life - there can be no other effective way to teach the gospel.

[...]

I know missionaries who cling to the idea that they can't be baptized until they know what they are being baptized for. You teach about the Godhead and the apostasy. often they don't know what you are talking about. Neither did you until you studied it for a few weeks. Now these lessons are important. I'm not saying they are not. When people are baptized they have an eagerness to learn everything about the Church. But you can teach them. But be alert to the investigator challenge from the first time you meet them. The Lord knows who he wants in his Church.

[daboosh]

Not even the church.

Not even the church.

You shouldn't have to be told what to believe. It's something you have to figure out on your own.

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