When to join Cub Scouts?

[Backroads]

All right, anyone involved with Cub Scouts or who is at least knowledgeable about this, help me out.

I work in a Scout office if you don't already know that. Part of my job is registrations. For years, I've been under the impression a boy does not join Cub Scouts until he is 8... and my computer agrees to the point of giving me an "Error" message if the boy isn't satisfactorily close to being 8 years of age.

I have a ward upset with me because I am completely unable to register a bunch of early-7 year-old boys.

Apparently their stake president has a letter saying boys can begin Cub Scouting as long as they've entered 2nd grade, regardless of age.

All I know is my computer disagrees.

Is this a recent letter and BSA programming just hasn't caught up with it yet?

The lady at national BSA I would talk to about this is on vacation.

[Vort]

I thought Tiger Scouts always started at 7, and I also thought Tiger Scouts were officially a part of the Cub Scouts (though they can't earn other Cub awards). The Church doesn't sponsor Tiger Scouts, though, as far as I know. But I would think if you worked in a Scouting office (as opposed to a Church office of some sort) that the Tiger Scout option would be there.

In summation: I don't know.

You're welcome for all my helpful help!

[Anddenex]

Cub Scout, No.

Tiger Scouts, as Vort mentioned, Yes.

My next question, how close are they to 8 years of age? If they are more than 1 month away, they will have to deal with it, and wait for their sons to turn 8.

[Backroads]

Everyone be sure to thank Vort!

All the LDS Scouting stuff has its own little rules in our computer(There is Cub Scouting and LDS Cub Scouting, Boy Scouts and LDS Boy Scouts, etc.)--basically, since there is no LDS Tiger Cubs, we can't put anyone into it. Otherwise, traditional Cub Scouting begins at either 8/post-1st grade, if I'm not mistaken. But the LDS Cub Scouting as an age 8 minimum--no impact from school grade. I have a few months I can work with and I can work all sorts of miracles with an open charter, but that's about it.

[Backroads]

Cub Scout, No.

Tiger Scouts, as Vort mentioned, Yes.

My next question, how close are they to 8 years of age? If they are more than 1 month away, they will have to deal with it, and wait for their sons to turn 8.

None of them was within the two month-ish window the computer will allow, many of them a very fresh 7.

I just haven't heard of this letter to the contrary.

[Anddenex]

I found this on this site:

Wolf Cub Scouts Help, Ideas, and Aids

If a Cub Scout has completed the first grade (or is 8 years old) and has earned the Bobcat Badge, he may start earning the Wolf rank. He receives a Wolf Scout handbook, Wolf neckerchief, and Wolf neckerchief slide when beginning the Wolf portion of the boy scout trail. He will also need a blue Cub Scout Uniform. This part of the boy scout trail is intended to take one school year, preparing the scout to begin earning his Bear rank after he completes second grade.

I am trying to find other things online.

[Anddenex]

Found this on:

FAQ: Joining Cub Scouting

How old (or young) can a boy be to join Cub Scouting?

Cub Scouting is for boys in the first through fifth grades, or 7 to 10 years of age. Boys who are older than 10, or who have completed the fifth grade, can no longer join Cub Scouting, but they may be eligible to join the Boy Scouting or Venturing program.

[Anddenex]

This site answers the question you are requesting: Which is inline with Vort's response.

The Advancement Trail

Tiger Cub

To begin his path to the Tiger Cub rank, the Tiger Cub (age 7) must learn the Cub Scout promise, the Cub Scout sign, and the Cub Scout salute. When he has learned these, he gets his Tiger Cub emblem, which is a tiger paw with four strings for beads. He wears the emblem on his right pocket.

Wolf

The Wolf rank is for boys who have finished first grade (or who are 8 years old). To earn the Wolf badge, a boy must pass 12 achievements. His parent or guardian approves each achievement by signing his book. When the boy has met all requirements, the Wolf badge is presented to his parent or guardian at the next pack meeting. During an impressive ceremony, the parent or guardian then presents the badge to the boy.

You will need to let the Cub Scout Coordinator, the Bishopric member know, or the person you are currently speaking with that a child doesn't join "cub scouts" at 7, they are able to join "Tiger Scouts" However, it appears at age 7, if in 2nd grade they can actually begin earning their Wolf rank. But they are not 8 year old Cub Scouts, they are still Tiger Scouts.

I believe Vort is correct, the Church doesn't sponsor Tiger Scouts, so the letter from the Stake President would be moot.

They as a family could join, independent of the Church.

[Wingnut]

I don't know specifics, but along with what Vort said, I thought that Cubs started younger than what the Church typically runs, but I don't know when exactly.

[skippy740]

I'm an LDS Cubmaster. LDS packs are 'age-based' while every other unit outside the church is 'grade-based'.

Tiger Cubs: 1st grade or 7 years old (not done in LDS units)

Wolf Cubs: 2nd Grade or 8 years old

Bear Cubs: 3rd Grade or 9 years old

Webelos: 4th Grade or 10 years old

In our pack, we allow 7 year olds to attend pack meetings or pack activities the month prior to their 8th birthday, but they are simply invited, not registered.

I don't know how to help you solve your problem though.

[Backroads]

Well, this problem actually happened yesterday (and the letter was still on my mind and no one the Scouter forums seems to know of this letter) and I handled it with a simple "My computer won't let me--you can see Co-Worker for a temporary advancements form so you won't upset the kids and I'll see what I can finangle on your charter come January" with a few things running with what Anddenex said. I think it frustrated the woman--because her stake president told her differently--but that was that.

So what I'm gathering from y'all is as far as y'all is aware, it's still 8 for LDS Cubs. Like I thought.

Now I'm wishing I had asked her to get me a copy of that letter. I'm now thinking the stake made their own little decision.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Backroads

[MarginOfError]

Cub Scouting for Eight-, Nine-, and Ten-Year-Olds

When properly carried out, Cub Scouting is a fun, home-centered activity program. No Scoutsponsored overnight camping should be planned for boys under age eleven. Details for Cub Scout programs are published by the Boy Scouts of America and are available through local BSA Council offices

(Scouting Handbook For Church Units in the United States, Revised June 2012, section 6.1)

If there has been a change to the Church approved scouting program, it was very recent. As recently as June, only 8, 9, and 10 year olds were allowed to participate in Cub Scouts.

My guess is that this was a decision by the stake.

[Backroads]

And not a wise decision if they expect awards, registration, and BSA insurance coverage.

[skippy740]

Makes me wonder what the Church Handbook of Instructions says (if anything). If it does say anything, why did they deviate from it?

[applepansy]

I haven't read the whole thread. But you work for BSA so you follow BSA rules, end of story. If the Stake President, Bishop, Cub Scout Leader, etc want to discuss it further they do it with you boss.

[MarginOfError]

Makes me wonder what the Church Handbook of Instructions says (if anything). If it does say anything, why did they deviate from it?

If I remember correctly, the CHI refers leaders to the Scouting Handbook, which is only available online as it is revised pretty much every year.

I haven't read the whole thread. But you work for BSA so you follow BSA rules, end of story. If the Stake President, Bishop, Cub Scout Leader, etc want to discuss it further they do it with you boss.

The difficulty with this is that the BSA rules differ from the Church rules. In any other church, the boys could be registered in Tiger Cubs. The Church doesn't allow that for its scouting program, however. So Backroads is, in a sense, in the rare position of having to serve two masters.

[Backroads]

If I remember correctly, the CHI refers leaders to the Scouting Handbook, which is only available online as it is revised pretty much every year.

The difficulty with this is that the BSA rules differ from the Church rules. In any other church, the boys could be registered in Tiger Cubs. The Church doesn't allow that for its scouting program, however. So Backroads is, in a sense, in the rare position of having to serve two masters.

And the handbook still speaks of 8 years of age.

Now, I could register all these little boys in Tiger Cubs... if the boys and their parents would seek out a Tiger Cub pack. That wouldn't be difficult at all. But as their local ward does not sponser a Tiger Cub pack as part of their Cub Scouting, I cannot register a boy in the Tiger Cub pack of the LDS Cub Scouting because there IS NO Tiger Cub pack and no amount of wishing will change that.

No one at National has heard anything about a change, so my guess is Stake President talked to someone outside of LDS Cub Scouting and got confused.

[Connie]

I think what Skippy says in post 10 answers the question very well. Tell them LDS packs are age-based and not grade-based.

[Misshalfway]

I thought Tiger Scouts always started at 7, and I also thought Tiger Scouts were officially a part of the Cub Scouts (though they can't earn other Cub awards). The Church doesn't sponsor Tiger Scouts, though, as far as I know. But I would think if you worked in a Scouting office (as opposed to a Church office of some sort) that the Tiger Scout option would be there.

In summation: I don't know.

You're welcome for all my helpful help!

Tip Jar for Vort! Yes right here in my left pocket.

I'll be taking the money for him. He's away buying his new advice giving chair.