An Inconvenient Truth

[BenRaines]

I work in an office full of women. Pity me it is ok.

Ben Raines

[Outshined]

Coming up on 20 years of marriage and my wife and I still shower together almost every day.

To conserve energy, of course...yeah, that's it...energy...

[BenRaines]

Way to go Outshined. 31 years here. Think of all the water saved.

:)

Ben Raines

[Outshined]

I'm not sure it makes huge difference on my water bill, but why take chances?

[Winnie G]

shanstress70

My house is on power bars and my living room has plugs that turn off at the switch.

I have rechargeable batteries that I use for my two alarm clocks, even my grand father clock is powered by rechargeable batters, when you work for the army power failures are no excuse for being late so we have not had power alarm clocks in years 20 + besides I hate the flashy LED light.

I eat more fish and chicken then red meat any smart person does who gets to my weight and age.

But a good stake once in a while wont hurt me.

Besides if I do close to 80+ of the things you should be doing we are, what did you call it "shanstress70

By the way, my pool is above ground solar heated and the only power is used for the pump on a timer once a day. The cost ten dollars a month, witch brakes even since I’m not using as much power since daylight savings time cuts back on the amount of lights I use.

Organic farmer's, Good for you!, I live in Hutterrite country from Southern Manitoba to Alberta you can find what ever you want when you want.

My tell my youngest son whos 6’6 that if he did not stop growing it was off to the Hutterrite’s for his pants. He knows we are not kidding,

BYTW you’re the one who said you had a SUV that leaves the readers to invasion a LARGE gas sucking Hum-V too a Binledn buggy. And yes I do judge any ego minded fool who drives large gas sucking pig that is not used for what they are suppose to be used for.

Lets start with ATV’s, people have taken up using for recreation. ??? THEY ARE FRAM equipment! Different motorized vehicles are meant for work or transportation. Taking a truck off the farm or the work place or a ATV and turning them in to every day transportation or recreation is ego nothing less.

One question your Small pop-up pulled it self loose from your Seturn???? Sounds like someone’s rotten welding job. I have a mid size pop up and I can pull mine??

BenRaines sounds like you are doing your part and someone else as well LOL

Dodge Ram Truck with a 5.7 L Hemi engine. Do you live on a farm, work construction or pluming industry etc ?

If not you might want to re think your choice of transportation.

[sunny_surfer]

if you ask me global warming is a lot like when a parent has a sick child. you can take that child to go see 50 doctors and if all but say 10 of them say its not a big deal and there is nothing wrong with him, i dont know about you but i would listen to the other 40 doctors who say there is a problem. There is not sense in arguing the idea that we have polluted our plant leaving global warming out of it. so we can either stand by and watch it get a heck of a lot worse or we can do something about it.

[pushka]

Winnie and Shanstress..I hate to see that this thread has devolved into a debate about who can do more/better than whom.

Please, both be satisfied with the fact that you are at least trying to do something to help the world/environment, but don't get into arguments with each other...it's just sad.

[shanstress70]

Winnie and Shanstress..I hate to see that this thread has devolved into a debate about who can do more/better than whom.

Please, both be satisfied with the fact that you are at least trying to do something to help the world/environment, but don't get into arguments with each other...it's just sad.

Sorry it came across that way. The point I was trying to get across is that Winnie does things that I do not do, and I do things that she does not do. I was trying to get her to see that NO ONE can do everything they suggest. You have to think about what makes the most sense for you and your family to do.

I also think it's wrong for people to judge others' choices on the kind of car they drive, etc (like her comment to Ben). I say worry about your own family's choices and I'll worry about mine. :)

[BenRaines]

I have found it very difficult to haul all the Boy Scout camping stuff on camping trips in the front of a VW bug. Tried to get all the tents to girls camp in one too. Impossible.

Each time a member of the church needs a table moved or a couch moved or a whole house full of furniture moved it doesn't work in a VW bug either. I enjoy camping, fishing, hunting and pulling a boat.

The really nice thing is I live in America where we are able to live as we see fit and no politician can tell me how I have to live or what I need to drive.

Most people can see the movie "Inconvenient Truth" for what it was and that is a political statement for Al Gore to see if he can run again for President of the US. After his gaffe in Southern California where he said if you were a mediocre student you would find yourself stuck in a bad war in Iraq. I am smart enough to know that he was making a derogatory remark to the President of the US but it sounded like he was saying the soldiers in Iraq are not smart enough and that is what ended them up there.

Life is about choices. Hopefully we are all happy with the ones we have made in life. I am.

For those who are interested try a Google search of The Little Ice Age. You can also read about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

Enjoy I am headed out to fire up some briquets and BBQ some cancer causing steaks. :)

Ben Raines

[pushka]

<div class='quotemain'>

Winnie and Shanstress..I hate to see that this thread has devolved into a debate about who can do more/better than whom.

Please, both be satisfied with the fact that you are at least trying to do something to help the world/environment, but don't get into arguments with each other...it's just sad.

Sorry it came across that way. The point I was trying to get across is that Winnie does things that I do not do, and I do things that she does not do. I was trying to get her to see that NO ONE can do everything they suggest. You have to think about what makes the most sense for you and your family to do.

I also think it's wrong for people to judge others' choices on the kind of car they drive, etc (like her comment to Ben). I say worry about your own family's choices and I'll worry about mine. :)

Hi Shanstress, thanks for your reply. I hope my post didn't upset either you or Winnie. I actually think that you were trying to show that each can only do their best, however the posts just seemed to be degenerating (that was the word I was looking for when I said devolve! lol) into a tit-for-tat discussion of who'd done what, and yes like you said people making remarks about what kind of car another ought or ought not to be driving...I think it diverted from the real meaning of the discussion.

Please accept my apologies for any upset feelings!!

[BenRaines]

Here is another link:

http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/lia/little_ice_age.html

Ben Raines

[boyando]

if you ask me global warming is a lot like when a parent has a sick child. you can take that child to go see 50 doctors and if all but say 10 of them say its not a big deal and there is nothing wrong with him, i dont know about you but i would listen to the other 40 doctors who say there is a problem. There is not sense in arguing the idea that we have polluted our plant leaving global warming out of it. so we can either stand by and watch it get a heck of a lot worse or we can do something about it.

Micah 5: 14- And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.

3 Ne. 21: 18- And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities.

BIBLE DICTIONARY

Grove

In Hebrew, called Asherah (of which the plural is Asherim or Asheroth), either a living tree or a tree-like pole, set up as an object of worship, being symbolical of the female or productive principle in nature. Every Phoenician had an asherah near it. The word is often translated “green trees” or “grove.” This “nature worship” became associated with gross immorality, and so the practice of setting up such “groves” or idols was forbidden by Hebrew prophets.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be good stewards of this planet. Our Heavenly Father has let us stay here and we don't need to trash it. But those who worship, nature, instead of thanking the Father in Heaven for it, will not be forgotten.

Here in Utah we have the Mayor of Salt Lake telling us (on a local radio talk show) that we shouldn't build highways and freeways, because that encourages driving cars. I'm not the brightest guy in the room but I can see that making cars stop and go causes more pollution than cars that maintain a steady flow.

He says that he is concerned for the environment, yet thinks that we all should take the bus, light rail or train. In some places that works, i.e. New York or Boston, maybe. It has shown no results in L.A., Phoenix and many other states were the population is spread out. Yet year after year we are told to give up our cars because of global warming. It really seems to me that he is more concerned with making sure he runs our life.

Many countries have only the trains and buses to get from one end of the country to the other and yet they all seem to have the poorest air quality. One of the best kept secrets is that in southern California they have annual no drive days. These no drive days are some of the worst days for air quality, because people end up taking short trips and never get there car warmed up.

To put todays "environmental experts" in the same category as a doctor is like letting a used car salesman plan your financial future.

It is not my intention to be so harsh, but I feel we are being taken for a ride by people like Al Gore, who really just want to gain power over us. Deciding what kind of car we can drive. Telling us that we shouldn't drill for oil in our own deserts, because our environment is different from the middle east. The list goes on and on.

Do I think it is wrong to save fuel? Or to replace your light bulbs to save energy? Of coarse not. I'm happy to say that I have bought and used these light bulbs, although I have not seen any savings in my power bill. The fact that I don't have to change the bulbs as often, is what sold me. All of our modern day Prophets have told us to be frugal, so it is another no brainer, for me, to save were we can.

My free advice, is to read the book Trashing the Planet, by Dixy Lee Ray, and if you still think that these environmentalist have the earth as there concern, then I would say good luck with your used car salesman.

sorry for being so harsh - allmosthumble

[shanstress70]

Please accept my apologies for any upset feelings!!

No ill feelings here... I can see your point. :)

[CrimsonKairos]

No offense, but I don't much care about polar bears. I mean I don't wish them ill, but they're bears, not people. I say to the policiticians, let the USA drill in ANWAR or teach polar bears to pull my car.

As for global warming, I say: "Heat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we fry."

Ben, you crack me up. Have you ever thought of doing stand-up comedy?

p.s. As for the whole Earth being flooded when the polar ice caps melt...rubbish. Water (a.k.a. H20) takes up more volume when its frozen than when it's a liquid. So, when the ice caps melt (if they ever do all the way) the water levels will go down, not up.

Try it sometime and see for yourself. Take a glass and fill it halfway up with ice cubes. Then fill the rest of the glass with water until it's almost overflowing. Wait for the ice cubes to melt. The water level goes down. Surprise, surprise.

[Winnie G]

Lets look at the bald eagle.

I have not seen one but in zoo's growing up.

I know they were on the endangered spices list.

Because of mans efforts we have now pulled them back from extinction.

I still had not seen one until my first trip to Newfoundland and one swooped down on our van.

I just about clamed on to the dash board and yelled at my family “Did you see that”?!!!!!!!!!

It was Huge would be a under statement! I have never forgotten how amazing it was.

Last week watching one of those tourism Canada shows. It was about this park in the mountains of BC that has become the largest sanctuaries for endangered spices (birds of prey) and has so many bald eagles that they offer river trips along the eagles feeding aria. They showed what you would see on one of these trips. You would see up to 150+ bald eagles all around the river, it is the fish that has turned the tide.

We can do something about our environment to turn back the clock that was one of the things I like about the documentary it showed how the things we do can turn back the time and repair the damage done to be positive , take action.

It showed how much one family one person can do to make a difference.

To me that was the thing that has caused me to re think my life style and be positive, to do something.

[Traveler]

p.s. As for the whole Earth being flooded when the polar ice caps melt...rubbish. Water (a.k.a. H20) takes up more volume when its frozen than when it's a liquid. So, when the ice caps melt (if they ever do all the way) the water levels will go down, not up.

Try it sometime and see for yourself. Take a glass and fill it halfway up with ice cubes. Then fill the rest of the glass with water until it's almost overflowing. Wait for the ice cubes to melt. The water level goes down. Surprise, surprise.

Think again, the polar ice in Antarctica is on land not water. When that ice melts, where will the water go? How thick is the polar ice in Antarctica? And what % of the earth does it cover and what % is the earth is currently ocean? The estimate is that if the ice melts in Antarctic the ocean will rease from 12 to 20 feet. It may not flood the whole earth but it will flood enough of the earth that the populations concentrated in costal areas near sea level will be flooded. The ocean will run past its boundries.

The Traveler

[CrimsonKairos]

Glad I don't live near the coast. B)

Part of your argument didn't make sense. The whole ocean is "on land," i.e. the earth's crust. Even if you put an ice cube on a slab of granite and let the ice melt, the overall "height" or level of water would still go down. I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

[StrawberryFields]

I stumbled across this today. I like visuals :)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6662932/

Deforestation

I like trees so I can help my planting more trees. I know they are talking about the huge forests but I can do only what I can do. I love driving the highway in Idaho and seeing the pine trees they plant along with the years they were planted.

Fossil Fuels

If everyone thought about this we could make a difference and also save money. Heat your homes a little less and wear a sweater. Make fewer unnecessary trips, plan ahead so that so are not always running here and there in your car.

Agriculture.

Isn't there something productive and less harmful we can do with cowpies and the like?

[Dr T]

Thank you for the link :)

[StrawberryFields]

Thank you for the link :)

Sure thing Dr. T

[Nate]

Part of your argument didn't make sense. The whole ocean is "on land," i.e. the earth's crust. Even if you put an ice cube on a slab of granite and let the ice melt, the overall "height" or level of water would still go down. I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

I'm rusty on Chem so I could be wrong. When ice freezes the hydrogen bonds align so that the H2O is spread out more as oppose to a liquid state were the molecules can freely move. The hydrogen bonds are still there but are contacting and breaking these bonds thousands of times a second. Water is the only element that looses mass in a solid state than its liquid. Even though this may lead you to think that the water level would go down I think your wrong on you reasoning.

1. In a glass of ice water when the ice melts the volume does not change.

2. Even if it did what you are referring to, ice that is emerged in the water (bottoms of the ice caps in the water) would be the only contibuter to the tidal volume but thats not the case. You have a greater amount of volume and water that is not effecting the oceans current level i.e. the ice that is on land and the tops of the polar caps. If that was melted you just added a significant volume increase from sources that did not previously affect the tidal volume.

[BenRaines]

CK, I understand your point on ice expanding and taking more space than water in liquid form. I grew up in a time when we used ice trays, before ice makers. If you filled the tray too full when it froze it expanded and overflowed. Same thing happens if you put a full water bottle in the freezer today. If you fill it full and screw the lid down tight be prepared to clean up a mess in the freezer.

My guess is the same is true. Liquid H2O takes up less space than frozen H2O. At least that has been my experience but I am no scientist.

Ben Raines

[MaidservantX]

And wasn't that gaffe John Kerry's (Not Al Gore's)???

[Dror]

News story: AEI offers $10K

Does anybody else find this amusing, that this group funded by big oil should offer big bucks to try to find scientists willing to agree with it? Most scientists I've read or personally know agree that global warming exists and that human activity contributes to it. How many times will the scientific community have to speak before conservative Americans pull their head out of the sand? Sure, conservatives can always pull somebody out of a hat who agrees with them, especially if they pay them well, but the fact is that the vast majority of scientists do believe in climate change and that humans play a role in it.

Am I relying too much on expert opinion? Well, if I want my computer fixed, I'll go to somebody who knows about computers. If I get cancer, I'll go to an oncologist. If I want help with my taxes... well, you get the idea.

Dror

[Traveler]

News story: AEI offers $10K

Does anybody else find this amusing, that this group funded by big oil should offer big bucks to try to find scientists willing to agree with it? Most scientists I've read or personally know agree that global warming exists and that human activity contributes to it. How many times will the scientific community have to speak before conservative Americans pull their head out of the sand? Sure, conservatives can always pull somebody out of a hat who agrees with them, especially if they pay them well, but the fact is that the vast majority of scientists do believe in climate change and that humans play a role in it.

Am I relying too much on expert opinion? Well, if I want my computer fixed, I'll go to somebody who knows about computers. If I get cancer, I'll go to an oncologist. If I want help with my taxes... well, you get the idea.

Dror

Dror: The best known “greenhouse” gas is H2O or clouds. Some simple facts:

1. Radiant heat for the most part is absorbed at the surface for both land and water. It is the absorption of the sun’s radiant energy that causes the weather on earth. Without the sun there would be no global warming. None.

2. When the ground and water are heated they will give off energy by changing water H2O to vapor and they will also give off heat by convection which makes the air warmer.

3. Warmer air will hold more moisture or water vapor (H2O). The warmer the air and the more H2O the more greenhouse effect there is.

4. The cooling of water vapor in the air causes precipitation because cooler air holds less moisture. Part of normal global cooling through convection and that fact that heat rises and cool falls. But because the surface of the earth is warmer we have a diminishing of heat with altitude. Thus again global cooling.

5. H2O is a much better greenhouse gas than either CO or CO2. And the CO and CO2 molecules are both heaver than H2O molecules – This all means that if greenhouse gases are the primary cause of global warming then all our efforts in cutting down on CO and CO2 are in vein. H2O is the real problem.

It is my opinion that the whole global warming thing is more politics than care for the environment. What seems to be happening is that any scientist that agrees is considered by the media and certain political groups as “experts”. Any scientist that disagrees is considered outside the group of experts. Thus the reason that all or most experts agree with the notion. This separation of experts in science is not a new thing. Remember 50 years ago Dinosaurs were considered cold blooded reptiles. Anyone that disagreed was automatically considered to not be an expert. Today the experts have shifted and any scientist insisting that dinosaurs were cold blooded reptiles is considered to not be an expert on dinosaurs.

I have not seen any scientific study that points directly to any hard conclusive data that demonstrate that CO and CO2 are the primary greenhouse gases and that by singling out CO and CO2 we can completely eliminate any and all problems associated with global warming. If anyone knows of such a study – please supply the links.

I just decided to add some proof that H2O is the major contributer to global warming and everyone can observe this proof. If we are to visit a deseret during the hot summertime we will find the days hot and the nights cool. This is because of the lack of the global warming greenhouse gas H2O. If however we are to visit a tropical area or area of high moisture we will find both hot days and hot nights (less change between day and night). This is because of the presents of the greenhouse gas H2O. I submit this this will be experienced even with or without higher concentrations of CO and CO2.

Thanks

The Traveler