Windseeker Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Just read this marriage board and the advise board and you'll find out who they are.I found one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thought more about this thread, and I wonder if we do as a church culture put pornography on a pedestal as THE BIG SIN. Not that I want to lessen its seriousness, mind you all, but sometimes there is a mindset of "well, at least he/she/I didn't look at porn even though this other major line was crossed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SquidMom Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Not that this applies to everyone, but...I know a woman who married a return missionary. Went to the temple, both virgins, etc. For 12 years they did nothing, really, NOTHING but missionary style. She had no knowledge of any other way, and she was very bored and disatisfied by their lovemaking. A few years in, she discovered he had a porn addiction. Several years after he supposedly stopped, she found out he hadn't, cuz she looked in the history and finally saw what he had been looking at. She was shocked and disgusted that he was probably thinking of that when they were together. She told me that not all of it was so awful, and if he had shared of it with her she would have been willing, and happy, to try some new things. But he never had. She divorced him finally, (aside from this, he was really just a creep anyway,) and has been with other people. She says she never knew that sex could be so satisfying, as it never was with him. I am not advocating porn, but one has to admit that in our religion, where people are often reluctant to discuss sex in detail, even with their close friends, a certain level of education can be helpful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningStar Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thought more about this thread, and I wonder if we do as a church culture put pornography on a pedestal as THE BIG SIN. Not that I want to lessen its seriousness, mind you all, but sometimes there is a mindset of "well, at least he/she/I didn't look at porn even though this other major line was crossed". I think it's considered a big sin because of all the damage it has done.Despite it being considered such a major thing, men don't have the same reaction when they find out their wives have been looking at it as women do. My old bishop told me that when women find out, they're hysterical, crying, can't eat, sleep, etc. When a husband finds out, he says, "Oh. Well you need to stop doing that."So why aren't men typically devastated by this even though it's supposedly our culture that makes it such a big deal? Because men and women think differently about it. It is usually a woman's natural reaction to feel betrayed by it when men often view it as "just looking at something". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningStar Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 You know, I get the feeling that many of you think I am advocating for the use of porn, I'm not, someone asked me what possible good it could be and I gave 2 examples from my own pre-LDS life.What I am advocating is to take it out of the extreme shame group and put it back into the sin category and give families a realistic response to it - its not the end of the world or even the end of the marriage. Its the breaking of a Covenant and it is possible to come back from that just like its possible to come back from taking a drink or smoking a cigarette or even from eating fruit out of season. (ok the last one was a light hearted attempt at getting a smile out of some of you) I don't think you're advocating porn, but I also think it's unrealistic to think that you can just educate women into thinking it isn't that big of a deal and take their emotions out of the equation. That's usually a woman's nature. Women get mad at men even when their heads turn to look at a woman walking down the street. There just isn't going to be a calm reaction when a woman finds out her LDS husband is living a double life and lied to her face about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I never thought mnn was advocating porn, either (I correctly assumed this was pure debate! yay!). BUT as has been pointed out quite a few times here, many women react to porn with a more personally emotional response than "the church said it was bad" and I do think that reaction is natural (not for all woman, but I'd say a fair majority). There is something of a movement in the world to ignore that natural reaction and, for lack of a better word, brainwash us into thinking our natural impulse is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Not that this applies to everyone, but...I know a woman who married a return missionary. Went to the temple, both virgins, etc. For 12 years they did nothing, really, NOTHING but missionary style. She had no knowledge of any other way, and she was very bored and disatisfied by their lovemaking. A few years in, she discovered he had a porn addiction. Several years after he supposedly stopped, she found out he hadn't, cuz she looked in the history and finally saw what he had been looking at. She was shocked and disgusted that he was probably thinking of that when they were together. She told me that not all of it was so awful, and if he had shared of it with her she would have been willing, and happy, to try some new things. But he never had. She divorced him finally, (aside from this, he was really just a creep anyway,) and has been with other people. She says she never knew that sex could be so satisfying, as it never was with him. I am not advocating porn, but one has to admit that in our religion, where people are often reluctant to discuss sex in detail, even with their close friends, a certain level of education can be helpful...I'm not surprised.I've heard women say that they'd NEVER had an orgasm with their husband. Blows my mind! Communication and generosity goes leaps and bounds. I'm grateful for a marriage that has good communication and lots of generosity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I read that And They Were Not Ashamed and I loved how it advocated the simple "Do you like this?/What would you like?" questions. Some people will enter clueless and/or find it unromantic or whatever to... ASK what the partner wants or TELL the partner what he/she wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 BUT as has been pointed out quite a few times here, many women react to porn with a more personally emotional response than "the church said it was bad" and I do think that reaction is natural (not for all woman, but I'd say a fair majority).There is something of a movement in the world to ignore that natural reaction and, for lack of a better word, brainwash us into thinking our natural impulse is wrong.I agree with this... but I want to present the flip side... Feelings no matter how natural and understandable do not excuse poor choices in what action we take.For example lets take a marriage that has lasted years... there are kids and the wife would generally say that her marriage is good. Then the her husband confesses a porn problem... The wife is understandably hurt, confused, scared, etc. All perfectly understandable. Then she takes those feeling and declares that he has destroyed their marriage and from that point on demands a divorce and never lets up until she gets it. All the while feeling totally justified because of they way his action made her feel.While the above example is extreme... it does illustrate were some of that push back is coming from. I personally think neither one is the correct path.Marriages don't end because one or both parties makes a mistake. Marriage end when one of the parties decides they no longer want to work at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I agree, though your example mainly focused on a woman's reaction to her gut impulse. Like you said, her feelings were natural, good, expected... she just made a bad choice based upon them. When we start messing with the basics themselves (i.e., how dare you have an issue with porn!) we set ourselves up for other problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I agree, though your example mainly focused on a woman's reaction to her gut impulse. Like you said, her feelings were natural, good, expected... she just made a bad choice based upon them.It did... I based it of a thread we had here awhile back were a poster said that they had overheard or otherwise learned about several ladies, theoretically discussing the matter and proclaiming that would be their response. I know there can be a big difference between what people say they do and what they really do when they get down to it.But just imagine if one of those ladies husband was struggling with a porn problem and over heard his wife say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SquidMom Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Despite it being considered such a major thing, men don't have the same reaction when they find out their wives have been looking at it as women do. men and women think differently about it.I think this aspect goes back to somthing I've never really been able to really wrap my head around... Along long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Men were allowed to enjoy sex, while women weren't. It was a 'service' women provided to please their men. period. Example: When you were in high school, the jock that had slept with every girl on campus was a stud. But every girl he had slept with was a slut that put out. Even more so if she really enjoyed it. That is so unfair! why isn't the guy a slut, too? He got around a lot more than she did. And back in the victorian days, once a man had produced an heir, or whatever, he was free to take a mistress, to releive the wife of the trouble of meeting his needs. She didn't enjoy it, wasn't expected to, and was happy to be relieved of the burden. (Supposedly) But, if she took a lover, the husband was outraged. I'm not saying all men are pigs, but I think that somewhere deep in the male brain is a place where objectifying women as objects of sex is 'normal.' In the female brain, enjoying sex is bad, and makes you a bad person. I'm not saying we actually THINK that way, but that it's buried so deep we don't even know it's there. That might be why women react to it more drastically than men do. (Mind you, this is putting religion and personal beliefs aside, just psychology) My personal opinion. Edited November 15, 2012 by skippy740 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The guy is a stud... as in:a : a young man : guy; especially : one who is virile and promiscuousStud - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster DictionaryToday, being a stud is a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The guy is a stud... as in:a : a young man : guy; especially : one who is virile and promiscuousStud - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster DictionaryToday, being a stud is a compliment.The things I learn everyday... I've always thought stud is the male counterpart to slut. Both words used in a derogatory manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SquidMom Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The guy is a stud... as in:a : a young man : guy; especially : one who is virile and promiscuousStud - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster DictionaryToday, being a stud is a compliment.I don't disagree with the definition, or that it is a compliment. I meant to illustrate that earning that reputation involves making a girl a slut. What, then, is the female equivalent of 'stud', and why is the girl in question not thought of just as highly? If male promiscuity is a complimentary attribute, why is female promiscuity looked on so negatively? I'm just saying it should be equal..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I don't disagree with the definition, or that it is a compliment. I meant to illustrate that earning that reputation involves making a girl a slut. What, then, is the female equivalent of 'stud', and why is the girl in question not thought of just as highly? If male promiscuity is a complimentary attribute, why is female promiscuity looked on so negatively? I'm just saying it should be equal.....In the Gospel of Jesus Christ it is equal... aka the Law of Chastity applies equally to both genders. Outside that framework other factors come into play. Biology is one. In biology the more offspring you have the bigger winner you are (the whole survival of the fittest thing). When it comes to physical process of having offspring the genders are not equal. The females have to invest considerably more time and effort to make it happen. The males can kick off hundreds if not thousands of potential offspring and never have to worry another bit about it. Thus this will compel the mental wiring to be different between the genders. Females will be forced to be more selective vs their male counterpart.That is just biology (aka the natural man). Then we have culture... specifically inheritances. Before the invention of paternity tests people could only be very sure of who the mother was. Knowing who the father pretty much depended on the women staying faithful. So there was a whole lot of social pressure on the women for that to happen. But there was no such requirement for the men.Of course these are just the two that I could think of off the top of my head, I am sure there are other and even other takes on the two I thought of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcguy Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Lets discuss prevention. There are software blockers, DNS blockers and so on. Any takers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I don't think prevention really solves the problem, but I think blockers and what not are dead-useful tools in the process. Though I suppose there are cases where they escalate the problem (you blocked my internet-by-which-I-mean-porn?!?!?!) I think they could be useful ways for one spouse to show s/he means business and wants a discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 On a more random note, it is fascinating how the male and female brain can differ in the view of sex. Last night, I get home from work to find my Victoria's Secret catalog in the mailbox. Yay. I sit down on the couch and browse through it... and soon discovered that my husband wasn't very useful in responding to "do you think this is cute/sexy?" questions as he struggled to look at the actual product/pattern... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Lingerie patterns help to enhance what's already there. Men will probably look at "the whole package" versus just looking at fabrics, cut, etc. He probably felt "on the spot" and might have to get a crowbar later to take his foot out of his mouth. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramajane Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Matthew 5:28 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 For blockers, we've recommended K9 Web Protection - Free Internet Filter and Parental Control Software | Free Internet Filtering and Parental Controls Software many times. It's free. It's not a total solution to stop all possible exposure, but it's a step.I would get your software license under your spouse's email address. This way, if an attempt to uninstall it occurs, it will email the other spouse.I would also set up a random password through a password generator. Makes it very difficult to guess what it is to override the settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMGuy Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Lets discuss prevention. There are software blockers, DNS blockers and so on. Any takers?In the old argument between warhead and armor....warhead always wins.-rm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 On a more random note, it is fascinating how the male and female brain can differ in the view of sex.Last night, I get home from work to find my Victoria's Secret catalog in the mailbox. Yay. I sit down on the couch and browse through it... and soon discovered that my husband wasn't very useful in responding to "do you think this is cute/sexy?" questions as he struggled to look at the actual product/pattern...http://assets.amuniversal.com/b3674640febb012ff69e001dd8b71c47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Lingerie patterns help to enhance what's already there. Men will probably look at "the whole package" versus just looking at fabrics, cut, etc.He probably felt "on the spot" and might have to get a crowbar later to take his foot out of his mouth. :)It was more of ...Me: Is this cute/sexy?Him: Yes.Me: Yeah? You like that cut/pattern?Him: Huh? Oh, the bra/panty/sweater/etc!My own fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.