3 paycheques away from being homeless

[Bini]

I'm watching the Marie show and it was stated that the average American is three paycheques away from being homeless. A lot of questions came to mind, and I'd be interested in what some of you think.

Is this an exaggerated statistic? If not, what is to blame for it? Is being homeless justifiable? Or are there always options and a solution if sought out? Regardless, would homelessness even exist if people were more charitable to others? And if charity (to the fullest extent) could eliminate homelessness, how far does one go to help another? Are there limits to being charitable? Lastly, does The Lord have conditions or limitations when He is charitable?

[pam]

I wouldn't think it exaggerated. Most average people I know live paycheck to paycheck. Especially those that are single parents. To lose 3 paychecks could definitely put them on the street.

[Backroads]

I'd say we're right in that category. Never thought about it in such a way, but it's true.

[NeuroTypical]

the average American is three paycheques away from being homeless

Exaggerated? Probably. I think a better way to put it, is the average American is 3 checks away from having eviction or forclosure proceedings started against them, which are processes that can take anywhere between 2 months to over a year to work through the system and actually result in homelessness, assuming the people missing the checks don't make other arrangements.

Is being homeless justifiable? Sure. I don't care if someone wants to be homeless. I just don't want to be forced to support their lifestyle if it's a choice.

Let's be clear - there are four reasons people end up homeless. I don't know what order they go in, but it's addictions, mental illness, ignorance, and apathy. Apathy includes entitlement-demanding laziness and other refusals to get off your rear end and go take care of yourself.

Are there always options and a solution if sought out? Yes. Again, addictions, mental illness, and ignorance are barriers to finding and implementing these options. From where I'm standing, it's in society's best interest to provide help for these people, and I don't mind my taxes going to such purposes. My wife and I also contribute our time and money to various ways to fight these barriers. Apathy is also a barrier, but since it's also a choice, I'm against having to fork over a single dime to protect people from their own choices.

Would homelessness even exist if people were more charitable to others? Yes, because again, supporting people in their chosen lifestyle by buying them roofs over their heads is only part of the issue. Charity is useless if someone doesn't understand the barriers people can't overcome on their own. There is always a detox facility, a women's shelter, a group home, subsidized housing, work programs, etc. available - but people still end up on the streets. Some by choice, some not by choice.

Sometimes, giving people stuff they want is not charity. Other times, it is. You gotta look deeper to the underlying issues.

[pam]

Whether they are actually out on the street, the process of eviction could already start towards homelessness.

I personally know of someone that got a 3 day eviction notice for being 10 days late on their rent one time. It was upheld. I too thought it would take a long process but I guess it depends on where you live.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Is this true? Yes and no. There are many factors to consider.

For example what definition of "homeless" are we using here. If you mean living on the street eating out of the garbage or something drastic like that, I would say no. But if you mean, relying on the mercy of family members or friends to let you live with them until you get on your feet, then I think the 3 pay checks to homelessness is not far-fetched.

Still another thing to consider is whether you rent or own a home.

If you rent...you could be in a situation where if you miss one month's rent, they will evict you...and if you cant pay the rent, then it goes without saying that you probably can't come up with rent + deposit to go anywhere else either.

If you own a home, you can miss a payment or two before the bank starts foreclosure, and once they start foreclosure you have a few months "rent-free" so to speak before you are officially evicted. This "rent-free" time can give you an opportunity to pull some money together to get into an apartment (if anyone will accept your application after foreclosure....and if you have a job and are not unemployed.)

I think the main point behind that statement is that too many people, even many who make significant amounts of money....are over-extended and live paycheck to paycheck.

My husband and I send our kids to EFY every year because it is such spiritual boost for them that the financial sacrifce is worth it. We know another family, that has a nicer house and drives nicer cars (I don't mean sports cars...I mean 2011-12 cars with a payment...our best vehicle is a 2006, LOL!). They are seem to be better off than us financially, and yet they say they can't afford to send their kids to EFY.

It is a shame we don't have more economics classes in schools/education to help people be more familiar with what a mistake it is to live paycheck to paycheck. Some people dont have a choice...I have been there, but so many do. They live paycheck to paycheck because they have to have a certain house, clothes, cars...phones for all the kids, and not just any phone, but Iphones....and suddenly they are "scraping" by and if there is any financial emergency they are in big trouble. I think that is the whole point of the 3 paychecks to homelessness idea.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Is being homeless justifiable? Or are there always options and a solution if sought out? Regardless, would homelessness even exist if people were more charitable to others?

I am of the opinion that a lot of homeless people are mentally ill...schizophrenia and things of that nature. Because of their illness it is difficult to get them to take their meds regular, and without the meds their behavior can be quiet eratic which makes it hard for them to hold a job, or even care if they have a job. Some of these people are saved by loving families, and some even with loving families turn away and end up on the street. Some do not have the blessing of a loving family at all. . .

Once when I was a correctional officer (prison guard), an older inmate mentioned that if he were not in prison, he would go back to where he was before...living beneath a bridge. I have no idea why he would say such a thing, but I suspect he is mentally ill.

I also believe that drug addiction causes people to become homeless. Not only because drugs are so expensive and by their nature cause one to lose their job, but a serious enough addiction can cause a person not to care about anything (even where they sleep) but the next "high".

I believe there are a lot of homeless teenagers out there who are good kids, but fleeing impossible home situations (severe abuse). I recently heard that there are a lot of homeless teenagers in the Salt Lake area because they told their parents they are gay and the parents said, "change or get out."

My point is that there are more reasons that we can imagine or name for true homelessness....I don't claim to know all the reasons. Likewise, I don't think there are easy answers to the situation. I do think that it would help for people to be more charitable, but I don't think that will solve the problem completely since it stems from so many different reasons.

[Guest]

Question:

With HUD and Section 8 housing available to those who can't afford it, why are there still homeless people in the US?

[NeuroTypical]

I was a landlord in Utah back in the '90's. The process looked something like this:

Day 0: rent due.

Day 0 + 3: post '3 day notice to pay or quit'

Day 0 + 8: file eviction proceedings in court

Day 0 + 2-3 weeks: court date. (A typical result will be an agreed-upon date to move out in a few weeks, with damages TBD. If they don't show, you have to pay a constable to serve papers, which could tack on 1-2 weeks.)

Day 0 + 4-8 weeks: day to move out passes. File another motion to have a constable evict them.

Day 0 + 5-10 weeks: Get motion approved, go pay a constable.

Day 0 + 6-12 weeks: constable shows up, and will escort you into the dwelling, and will escort any occupants (and maybe their stuff) on to the street and remain there while you change the locks.

I did 3 or 4 evictions. In each one, they dissapeared about 2.3 seconds before the constable showed up to toss them out. They always left a bunch of crap behind - one guy left a car which was impounded. One family intentionally trashed the place.

[NeuroTypical]

Question:

With HUD and Section 8 housing available to those who can't afford it, why are there still homeless people in the US?

It's already been answered: Addictions, mental illness, ignorance, and apathy. And what LiterateParakeet had to say.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Question: With HUD and Section 8 housing available to those who can't afford it, why are there still homeless people in the US?

My thoughts about this question are in the post above yours. Perhaps we cross-posted, or perhaps you wanted other thoughts. It's all good. :)

[Backroads]

All right, put together my thoughts on charity.

Charity is indeed the pure love of God. Hence, the principles and blessings of mercy, grace, etc. God is incredibly charitable.

And yet... God also expects us to do what we can. Our church teaches the goal of self-sufficieny and provident living.

So, yes, I think there can be a limit to charity. I believe charity is also a quality on the part of the recipient, and there does come a point of entitlement mentality.

[beefche]

Section 8 housing takes a minimum 12 months to get on it. People are told to expect it (once qualified) to get the reduction in rent in about 12-18 months.

[Backroads]

It's already been answered: Addictions, mental illness, ignorance, and apathy. And what LiterateParakeet had to say.

Taking rough theory here:

Addictions/Mental illness: Difficulty in focusing on what needs to be done.

Ignorance: Have no idea what needs to be done.

Apathy: Too lazy to do what needs to be done/find out what needs to be done.

[Echo2002]

I think for a long time we have felt secure in our jobs so we spent money because we were certain that we were getting another paycheck. We didn't bother to save any money because we always had some coming in. I used to do this until my job became unstable and I suddenly realized if I didn't have family to fall back on I would have been homeless.

Like someone else said, there's a waiting list for Government housing, and people who are drug addicts or mentally ill don't have the fortitude to find assistance.

I don't think the 3 paycheck statistic is that far fetched. I bet due to this poor economy some people have changed their lifestyles.

[Anddenex]

Let's be clear - there are four reasons people end up homeless. I don't know what order they go in, but it's addictions, mental illness, ignorance, and apathy. Apathy includes entitlement-demanding laziness and other refusals to get off your rear end and go take care of yourself.

Let's be clear, there are actually more than four reasons why people are homeless. For nine months when I was 10 years old my family did not have a home to call home.

My father was neither: addicted, mentally ill, ignorant, nor apathetic. We had just moved to California, and my father was not making enough to afford any rent. When we first arrived we rented, but my father's income did not increase as he thought it would, and we were unable to pay for rent.

For nine months we camped on the beach, in campgrounds, and other places that would allow tents. For these nine months, my parents saved money from their jobs, until we found a home.

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Yes, Bini, if the Church and all of God's children lived according to the commandments we would be living in a Zion society. Unfortunately, greed, avarice, and power control many people even those of us who call ourselves saints.

The Lord sough to establish this in our day, but the majority of the members could not live it.

It will be great times for the people who are living during the time the Lord establishes this again.

This can only be accomplished with faith, hope, and charity.

[NeuroTypical]

For nine months when I was 10 years old my family did not have a home to call home.

My father was neither: addicted, mentally ill, ignorant, nor apathetic.

I understand, but how long ago was that? Were the programs and safety nets which are available today, available back then? Such resources have increased quite a bit in the last 2-3 decades.

My dad was a child of the depression, and he and his family were homeless often in the '20's and '30's. My opinion is about the realities of the U.S. in 2012.

[pam]

So are you saying LM that everyone has safety nets to fall back on? I mean those that aren't addicted, mentally ill or ignorant?

[Bini]

Anddenex, thanks for sharing your story.

[NeuroTypical]

There are always exceptions, but yes, my opinion is that the majority of today's homelessness (that is not by choice), is caused by one of those four reasons.

[bcguy]

There is a program in Portland that houses the homeless. The reason is simple, statistics show that a homeless person is far cheaper to house, then one who is homeless and is more then likely to be incarcerated or be hospitalized.

So far the program is working. Also, one of our members used to own United Furniture Warehouse. He always advertised on the front page of the Vancouver Sun news paper. He sold his business due to divorce and now has a company called Welcome Home. It is a chain of stores and the profits are used to help alcoholics to recover and he hires them in his stores. He has been interviewed on the news and newspaper for his business model.

As for working pay check to pay check, its more expensive here and the debt has risen per house hold in Canada to near unsustainable levels "last I read" we have a large homeless population downtown. Vancouver is a notch or two in Consumer Price Index below New York New York in which to live.

Now if it was not for my wife's income, I would be homeless. Working for your self is more risky but this year, has been better then last year.

Edited November 22, 2012 by bcguy

[pam]

There is a program in Portland that houses the homeless. The reason is simple, statistics show that a homeless person is far cheaper to house, then one who is homeless and is more then likely to be incarcerated or be hospitalized. So far the program is working.

Now if it was not for my wife's income, I would be homeless. Working for your self is more risky but this year, has been better then last year.

You had better be extra special nice to your wife then.

[HoosierGuy]

Yes, many people in the U.S. live pay check to pay check. If you want to preach family values then the first thing you have to do is support programs that will take people off living pay check to pay check and start providing good paying jobs where they can save money and raise and feed and house a family. More like Europe and less like the current capitalist America. Living pay check to pay check is an attack on family values. Only when we have universal healthcare and strong unions will we see the return of family values and people living better than pay check to pay check.

[applepansy]

Question:

With HUD and Section 8 housing available to those who can't afford it, why are there still homeless people in the US?

In some areas of the country there isn't enough HUD or Section 8 housing.

And then there is qualifying. Not having a job isn't the only criteria.

[rameumptom]

There is a lot of people always on the edge, often due to their own choices. Many have children out of wedlock, single mothers often end up in poverty. Divorce leads to poverty. Of course, for a couple decades, people believed they could use the credit card as a source of buying anything they wanted, including expensive cars and houses - only to risk losing them if they lose their good paying jobs.

Many (not all) live paycheck to paycheck, because they do not budget nor plan their lives.