Dual denomination? Possible?

[Hyena]

I know this is going to be a controversial question. But I felt I should ask it.

What are your thoughts on dual religions? What I mean is, is it possible for someone to be a member of more than one church? Is it allowable for example to be both a member of the LDS church and the Catholic Church? I know that there are some differences in church doctrines, traditions, and culture.. But could there not be a balance struck for an individual?

[Connie]

You should ask your Catholic leader. I'd be interested to hear what he says.

[NeuroTypical]

You can be a member of as many different organizations as will let you join, I suppose. But it seems that you can't be a fully believing member of two organizations that contain contradictory teachings.

Catholics figure the Pope is the head of Christ's church, and the Catholic church contains the authority, which is held by no other person or organization anywhere on earth. LDS figure the Prophet is the head of Christ's church, and the CoJCoLDS contains the authority.

Folks who consider questions like yours, often have two groups of people they want to keep happy or not dissapoint. Is that your situation?

[Anddenex]

As LM mentioned, it really depends on the doctrines, tenets, and values of each church. There are some denominations that it wouldn't matter at all if you joined and followed both.

There are other denominations which brings up the doctrine of a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. Or how long shall a person be halt between two opinions.

LM brings up a good comparison when talking about the LDS faith and Catholics. It would be very hard to be a worth member of the LDS faith if you are trying to live up to the standards set in both religions. One theology would eventually take precedence over the other.

[dahlia]

I know the Catholic Church has changed after Vatican II, but I'm pretty sure you can only be a Catholic, not a Catholic+.

Also, when I was Catholic, non-Catholics could not receive Communion. It seems to me that if you consider yourself a member of another church, the Catholic Church could justifiable say that you are not 'really' a Catholic anymore and should not receive Communion until you decide to only be Catholic.

There would also be an issue with the Trinity. Catholics believe in the trinity, LDS believe in the Godhead. It's different and, as far as I'm concerned, irreconcilable.

[HiJolly]

LDS Church policy changed a few years ago, and now I believe that joining another church is restricted, and one can be disciplined for it. This from a Chaos magick paradigm pirate acquaintance of mine.

HiJolly

[Guest]

I know the Catholic Church has changed after Vatican II, but I'm pretty sure you can only be a Catholic, not a Catholic+.

Also, when I was Catholic, non-Catholics could not receive Communion. It seems to me that if you consider yourself a member of another church, the Catholic Church could justifiable say that you are not 'really' a Catholic anymore and should not receive Communion until you decide to only be Catholic.

There would also be an issue with the Trinity. Catholics believe in the trinity, LDS believe in the Godhead. It's different and, as far as I'm concerned, irreconcilable.

In Catholic doctrine, once baptized Catholic, you are Catholic for life. If you join another church that is not in communion with the Catholic church, you become in a state of heresy/schism and may not receive the Eucharist. You would need to undergo confession/repentance before you can receive the Eucharist again.

There are churches that are in communion with the Catholic church. These churches recognize the authority of the Pope as the head of the Church and have a valid Eucharistic celebration. The LDS Church is, of course, not one of them.

Technically, you can be a Catholic and an LDS at the same time - that is, you were baptized Catholic then you got baptized LDS. But, this makes you a Catholic in heresy, so you're not in a good place as a Catholic. But, you cannot be LDS and still believe in the Priesthood authority of the Pope and the Catholic priests. So, in essence, you cannot be both Catholic and LDS.

Edited January 14, 2013 by anatess

[dahlia]

Hyena - Did I recommend this book to you, 'Catholic roots, Mormon Harvest,' by Eric Shuster? It is a very good, very readable comparison and contrasting of Mormonism and Catholicism written by a convert. I recall that his wife has a masters in Catholic theory and really has the background, to discuss both religions, I'm not sure if he also has an academic background in religion, but he certainly can relate the mindset of a Catholic who is considering Mormonism.

[Hyena]

You should ask your Catholic leader. I'd be interested to hear what he says.

I've considered doing so... I'm not very involved in the Catholic church anymore, haven't been for years so I'm not sure who I'd ask, but I didn't really consider asking them because I really didn't care too much what the Catholic church thinks. I haven't been an active member for years, but only now are people expressing "concern" because I've been investigating the LDS church... in fact it seems like the only reason some people even seem to magically care all of a sudden is because I am leaving for something else and it's like they can't stand to lose anyone even if they did nothing to help convince me to stay. That and I just find much that I disagree with that they refuse to address/discuss and I have a hard time believing that the modern Catholic or Baptist churches (My family's churches, depending on which side of the family you look at) is the 'right' Church of God.. at least not for me or what I desire in my heart for my personal spirituality.

You can be a member of as many different organizations as will let you join, I suppose. But it seems that you can't be a fully believing member of two organizations that contain contradictory teachings.

Catholics figure the Pope is the head of Christ's church, and the Catholic church contains the authority, which is held by no other person or organization anywhere on earth. LDS figure the Prophet is the head of Christ's church, and the CoJCoLDS contains the authority.

Folks who consider questions like yours, often have two groups of people they want to keep happy or not dissapoint. Is that your situation?

Yes, sadly that's one of the solutions for my situation I'm humiliated to admit. I know it's a cowardly consideration. But you know... just was reaching for straws to find a tentative balance. I was thinking I could actively practice as a member of LDS and just go through the motions and let my social associates BELIEVE I'm a Catholic or Baptist or whatever makes them feel better. It's not elegant, but it's... well... it seemed like a possible solution.

[Hyena]

Hyena - Did I recommend this book to you, 'Catholic roots, Mormon Harvest,' by Eric Shuster? It is a very good, very readable comparison and contrasting of Mormonism and Catholicism written by a convert. I recall that his wife has a masters in Catholic theory and really has the background, to discuss both religions, I'm not sure if he also has an academic background in religion, but he certainly can relate the mindset of a Catholic who is considering Mormonism.

Thank you Dahlia... I'll seek that book immediately. I'd be interested in reading it, as a catholic considering conversion.

[Connie]

This topic is very interesting to me. Technically, my sister is both. She was baptized into the Catholic church a few years back but was born into an LDS family, baptized at age 8 and did baptisms for the dead at the temple while a teenager. As far as i am aware, she has never requested to haver her name removed from LDS records. I don't generally talk to her about religion.

Does the Catholic church commonly baptize people who still have an LDS church record? I'm assuming my sister did not mention her LDS record when she was baptized into the Catholic church, though i do not know that for certain. Would the Catholic church have refused to baptize her if they had known? Would they have required her to request removal before baptizing her? If her leader found out now that she still has an LDS record, would she be refused Eucharist and required to repent and request removal of that record?

Anyway, i agree with most everyone else that you really can't be both in essence.

[Hyena]

This topic is very interesting to me. Technically, my sister is both. She was baptized into the Catholic church a few years back but was born into an LDS family, baptized at age 8 and did baptisms for the dead at the temple while a teenager. As far as i am aware, she has never requested to haver her name removed from LDS records. I don't generally talk to her about religion.

Does the Catholic church commonly baptize people who still have an LDS church record? I'm assuming my sister did not mention her LDS record when she was baptized into the Catholic church, though i do not know that for certain. Would the Catholic church have refused to baptize her if they had known? Would they have required her to request removal before baptizing her? If her leader found out now that she still has an LDS record, would she be refused Eucharist and required to repent and request removal of that record?

Anyway, i agree with most everyone else that you really can't be both in essence.

See I think the question is... how is anyone to "know"? I mean, I suppose it comes down to intellectual honesty. But I can't imagine the type of invasions of privacy and borderline frighteningly investigations by strangers it would take to discover if you have been "moonlighting" on your denomination. I mean, I can't imagine going to Church with a friend is going to get you tossed out of either "denomination" if someone casually observed it. I also imagine that if you were a non-LDS member you'd be welcome to attend church with your LDS friends for virtually ever without someone telling you "that's enough.. don't come back unless you get baptized."

In fact, I'm curious how anyone except you and perhaps anyone you told would ever know about your "double" life? The only person you'd have to justify yourself to is God..

[Vort]

In fact, I'm curious how anyone except you and perhaps anyone you told would ever know about your "double" life? The only person you'd have to justify yourself to is God..

Agreed. Such a thing would not be obvious, unless a close friend or neighbor was keeping tabs (intentionally or unintentionally) on a person's comings and goings, and witnessed the going to another church.

We have a few recent converts in our congregation who still go to other churches, sometimes more often than they come to the LDS Church meetings. So far as I know, no one has read them the riot act for doing so or told them off as horrible people. It is assumed that by the time people achieve a certain level of maturity in the gospel -- for example, by the time they are preparing to go to the temple -- that they understand the doctrines and expectations of the gospel well enough to know that their participation and their loyalty should be to the restored gospel and the LDS Church that preaches it, and not to any other religious organization.

[RipFoster]

Joining another church is grounds for excommunication in the LDS church.

[Hyena]

Joining another church is grounds for excommunication in the LDS church.

Indeed it tends to be grounds for similar discipline in ANY church.. some more extreme in the punishment than others. But the thing about it is, I don't get the feeling that the LDS would simply just wash their hands of you. I imagine someone somewhere would make at least a friendly effort to bring you back into the fold. At least that would be my hope. Sometimes people lose their way. And sometimes they have to find their way home again.

Of course I'm certain many of my fellow Catholics would say something similar.. not to mention that "excommunication" is probably an archaic concept at best.. I hardly imagine the majority of people beyond the most fanatically devoted would "cease to acknowledge the existence" of someone who left the Church to too much of a degree. After all, they are our brothers and sisters and we love them and want them to be saved so some effort should and probably would be made I imagine. That at least is the vibe I get from the LDS, another reason it appeals to me. People actually seem to CARE about you.. not just in title or how much financial merit you have, but as a PERSON and for your SOUL.

Even if that assessment is incorrect, again, I have to wonder how they could be certain you were a member of another Church without a confession of sorts. I mean, even if someone claimed they saw me going into a Catholic church for Mass, how would they know how frequently I do it and for what purpose? How do they know I was not simply going as support for another friend or for a specific event in their life? Again, I think it all comes down to who you know, who you tell, and how you plan to explain to the Almighty Heavenly Father why you were sitting in two churches with opposing doctrines.

[NightSG]

But, you cannot be LDS and still believe in the Priesthood authority of the Pope and the Catholic priests.

Once again, this raises the interesting hypothetical as to what happens if the Pope converts.

Do we not have any Italian speaking missionaries that feel like a challenge?

[Vort]

Once again, this raises the interesting hypothetical as to what happens if the Pope converts.

Do we not have any Italian speaking missionaries that feel like a challenge?

When we visited the Vatican on P-day, we took off our name badges. There were mission stories about a missionary handing the pope a Book of Mormon and such things, but in reality we made an attempt to act like dignified adults.

[Hyena]

I suppose we should keep in mind that the Pope (as all Church figureheads and leaders probably tend to be as a rule) are extremely well educated men who have made something of a life study of theology and religion, and I'd wager that expertise is not limited to simply their own denominational faith. I would posit that the Pope is as well versed in the beliefs and practices of the Mormon church as President Monson probably is of the Catholic faith and traditions and practices. This is probably due to their interactions with spiritual leaders and their work with the everyday masses... many converts to churches when exploring conversion obviously would come from different backgrounds and I imagine even the average LDS missionary has had some rather informative and lengthy discussions in depth with investigators from the Catholic church, as they share with one another in the process. I know that with the missionaries I've been speaking with online (I have yet to have a face to face with a local ward missionary) they've been pretty interested in hearing about my current beliefs, usually in the process of teaching me a lesson or explaining how it is different to the LDS beliefs and how there is a lack of authority or difference in interpretation of the scripture here or there.

So I have a strong inclination to believe that the Pope at some point has read and made an careful study of the Book of Mormon... if only to give himself the perceived knowledge to allow him to repudiate LDS claims and convince Catholic practitioners and leadership in ways to address the potential loss of the Catholic church's members to a "competing ideology."

[dahlia]

Well, personally I don't see going to both LDS and Catholic churches. My parents were Episcopalian, which is very close to Catholic. We attended the Episcopal church on occasion over the years and all of us attended Catholic school through high school. I think that situation is different because of the closeness of their doctrine. We didn't take communion at the Episcopal church, close or not.

On the other hand, I sat in a different area of the chapel last Sunday. Looking around from my new vantage point, the thought came to me that the bare walls would look really nice with some Stations of the Cross on them. : )

[Guest]

This topic is very interesting to me. Technically, my sister is both. She was baptized into the Catholic church a few years back but was born into an LDS family, baptized at age 8 and did baptisms for the dead at the temple while a teenager. As far as i am aware, she has never requested to haver her name removed from LDS records. I don't generally talk to her about religion.

Does the Catholic church commonly baptize people who still have an LDS church record? I'm assuming my sister did not mention her LDS record when she was baptized into the Catholic church, though i do not know that for certain. Would the Catholic church have refused to baptize her if they had known? Would they have required her to request removal before baptizing her? If her leader found out now that she still has an LDS record, would she be refused Eucharist and required to repent and request removal of that record?

Anyway, i agree with most everyone else that you really can't be both in essence.

Catholic baptism is different from LDS baptism because Catholics believe in "original sin" and there is no "baptism for the dead". You are baptized on earth and that wipes you clean of original sin and marks you as a follower of Christ. This saving ordinance is available to anyone who wants it. The Catholic Church does not give baptismal interviews. They will baptize you regardless of whether you understand what you're getting baptized into or not. Most of these are babies who has zero understanding of anything. If you are older than 7 years old, you will need to take catechism classes before baptism but nobody asks you if you understand anything in the catechism prior to baptism.

All Catholics baptized will need a sponsor (godparent) who is charged with teaching/guiding you in your spiritual journey for life. The godparent has to be a practicing Catholic of good standing and most parents choose godparents who are spiritually strong.

Whether you're baptized in another church that is not in communion with the Catholic Church does not matter because the Catholic Church does not consider any other baptism as valid. Therefore, the existence of an LDS baptismal record is completely irrelevant even if it occurs after the Catholic baptism. That baptism becomes a sin that needs to be confessed to the priest.

Edited January 15, 2013 by anatess

[Guest]

Once again, this raises the interesting hypothetical as to what happens if the Pope converts.

Do we not have any Italian speaking missionaries that feel like a challenge?

A pope converting... the pope has the authority to shape Catholic Doctrine. Of course, he needs a council to agree with the doctrine before the church adopts it and so I doubt that if he declares that the Catholic priesthood authority is not valid that he would get any agreement from the council. So, in this case, the Pope converting - although highly unlikely - may cause a latae sentinae excommunication (the only way that a Pope can be excommunicated). Latae sentinae means that an individual is automatically excommunicated by virtue of his actions (which is what happens to any Catholic who converts to another church out of communion of the Catholic church). Latae sentinae does not require any formal excommunication proceedings. As the Pope is the highest authority of the church, nobody can excommunicate him except himself.

Now, take note that excommunication in the Catholic Church does not make you un-Catholic. Your baptism will always be valid throughout your life. An excommunication just puts you in schism and you would then need to confess and pronounce the creed to get back in communion.

A pope out of communion of the Catholic church and rejected by the grand synod will be asked to resign (if he hasn't volunteered to resign himself) and a new pope will be ordained.