Bunco

[Guest]

Does anyone else remember fairly recent counsel on Bunco groups and the like?

[mtnbikemom]

I do. Unfortunately I can't remember the specifics but I want to think it was about the exclusive nature of the groups; not very inviting to others. There is fairly high probability that I'm making that up completely. For all I know it could have been a suggestion that Bunco groups include more hot gluing and an admonishment to recite the YW theme before play begins and to use only church music to set the mood. Essentially Eowyn, my information is useless.

[Guest gopecon]

Not bunco specifically, but card playing has been discouraged.

[pam]

We're safe then since Bunco doesn't require cards. :)

[Guest]

I don't even know what the game is. A girl in my ward is wanting to start a group and I thought something was said about it over the pulpit in the last few years. Could just be our stake I guess.

[Wingnut]

Not bunco specifically, but card playing has been discouraged.

Not since Mormon Doctrine, which was published before I was even born. Gambling, specifically, has been discouraged in more recent memory.

[classylady]

Eowyn, I have some vague memory of something said over the pulpit about Bunco too. But, I can't remember where or who said it. If my memory serves me correctly, it was something to the effect that Bunco was not a great thing to join or attend.

[pam]

It's funny because I learned to play Bunco at a church function. Personally I don't see a problem with it if you are requiring people to pay to play. But that's just me.

[Bini]

I remember when I worked in hospice. There was an 85-year old man named Charlie. He was the grumpiest, no nonsense guy that I had ever worked with, but he had a heart of gold. He would sing to me every visit we had together, and would tell me stories from when he was in the Navy as a young man. One day he was just plain sick of everything. Didn't want to go for his nature walk, hated all the crap that was on TV, and so we sat there.. Then he decided he wanted to play cards. I figured, okay, let's do this. He was appalled that I had no idea how to play poker. He taught me how to play poker. :) And no, I'm not good at it.

[Sharky]

I don't recall anything specific about "Bunco Groups" or anything of the like, least not of the "official" kind.

I do recall numerous "groups" that had been started as part of a "church" function (one such ... Ward RS Quilting Groups) being strongly discouraged many years ago.

Seemed that frequently such groups become a breeding ground for much gossip & judgement of others & over time those groups did seem to become kind of exclusive.

Like I said, I don't recall anything officially being said, just recall being instructed to "excersize caution" & then those type of groups seemed to kind of phase out fairly quickly.

[Wingnut]

I'm seeing a lot of sites that say that a letter was issued, but I can't seem to find anything to actually corroborate that. It doesn't sound familiar to me, but I don't live in the Jell-o Belt.

[carlimac]

Not bunco specifically, but card playing has been discouraged.

How recently?

Personally, I don't see a thing wrong with Bunco. Our host provided candy bars for the winners. Whoop tee doo! Not one of the guests offered up a slim dime to the cause. It was tons of fun and not a single commandment was broken except for maybe loud laughter.

My daughter ( a young mother) plays Bunco with a group of other young moms once a month and it's as tame as tame gets and a lot less violent than ward basketball.

If gossip is what we're trying to extinguish we'd better get rid of RS altogether. But women would just find another scenario to discuss their friends and sisters lives. It's human nature. Not justifying it when it turns ugly, but it's what women do. They compare themselves to others and they talk and talk and talk. It's how we're made. The natural woman and I don't remember any scriptures about that- only the natural man. ( jesting of course)

I have a hard time believing the RS small groups were eliminated due to gossip. I think it was an idea that had hidden consequences like making us busier than we already were or needed to be for the sake of yet another church "program". Also the hurt feelings of many women when their group was poorly attended.

[pam]

I used to play with a group and we met once a month. It was a girls night out. We rotated homes. Never charged money like a lot of these groups do. We just all brought our favorite appetizer to share with the group and made a night of it. About every 2-3 months we had to invite someone new that would be our partner for the night. It was great to get to know different people.

[Just_A_Guy]

Like others - it rings a dim bell; can't recall specifics; I think it had to do with the problem of cliquishness more than anything else.

When I was a kid my parents were invited into a bunco group consisting of ward members - they thought it odd, for whatever reason, and declined. Within a year, everyone in that group was sure that their spouse had been unfaithful with at least one other member of the group.

Good times, that . . .

[Wingnut]

When I was a kid my parents were invited into a bunco group consisting of ward members - they thought it odd, for whatever reason, and declined. Within a year, everyone in that group was sure that their spouse had been unfaithful with at least one other member of the group.

Good times, that . . .

I did find an official letter that touches on that, actually. See point #6: LDS Church News - Members counseled about self-awareness groups

[carlimac]

Like others - it rings a dim bell; can't recall specifics; I think it had to do with the problem of cliquishness more than anything else.

When I was a kid my parents were invited into a bunco group consisting of ward members - they thought it odd, for whatever reason, and declined. Within a year, everyone in that group was sure that their spouse had been unfaithful with at least one other member of the group.

Good times, that . . .

Well, if the spouses were unfaithful I doubt it was Bunco that caused it, unless spouses were put on the prize table.

[carlimac]

I did find an official letter that touches on that, actually. See point #6: LDS Church News - Members counseled about self-awareness groups

I'm not sure how any of those points listed could apply to Bunco.

[Just_A_Guy]

I did find an official letter that touches on that, actually. See point #6: LDS Church News - Members counseled about self-awareness groups

That announcement - and its predecessors dating from, I think, the mid-1980s - are actually responses to a specific joker with a pricey "self-awareness program" (including, at one point, sham temple ordinances, if I remember correctly) who's been running around Utah for some time hinting that the Church endorses his hucksterism. Can't recall the details at present - I read about it online sometime ago - but will try to look it up for you later. It wasn't directly addressed to Bunco parties.

[Wingnut]

That announcement - and its predecessors dating from, I think, the mid-1980s - are actually responses to a specific joker with a pricey "self-awareness program" (including, at one point, sham temple ordinances, if I remember correctly) who's been running around Utah for some time hinting that the Church endorses his hucksterism. Can't recall the details at present - I read about it online sometime ago - but will try to look it up for you later. It wasn't directly addressed to Bunco parties.

I realize that. But I wonder about the pairing of spouses with not-each-other as partners at various types of game nights. It's just a thought.

[carlimac]

I realize that. But I wonder about the pairing of spouses with not-each-other as partners at various types of game nights. It's just a thought.

I guess that would eliminate square dancing, too. Shucks.

[Vort]

I realize that. But I wonder about the pairing of spouses with not-each-other as partners at various types of game nights. It's just a thought.

In card-playing, dancing, dinner-seating arrangements, and other social affairs, it is traditionally presumed that married couples are not seated beside or otherwise paired with each other. It is assumed that the individuals that make up the couple already know each other, and that they are there to mingle with those they may not already know as well.

[Wingnut]

Eowyn, can you give us a follow up on this? What (if anything) ever ended up happening with the potential group in your ward, and what (if anything) did you do or say?

[Guest]

I am very, very concerned about the state of my brain. I have absolutely no recollection of this issue or posting about it. But there is no Bunco group in my ward.

However, if you want some anecdotal and very questionable evidence, my SIL that used to play a lot of Bunco is now totally apostate, so make of that what you will.

[Iggy]

When I was living in AZ, Bunco was THE THING that the wealthier people played. The buy in was $50.00. The hostess was buying close to $200.00 worth of prizes.

It got to where the RS Night meeting had only 10% attendance because of the sisters going to the Bunco parties. Our Stake didn't have individual ward RS night meeting - all the wards met together.

I really liked the night meetings - I was from the poorer ward and I really enjoyed the small group. WE got to really know each other.

The Stake President stood at the pulpit at stake conference and said No More Bunco. I didn't attend so I really don't know all of what he said - but when my VT told me, we both said: Rats, there goes the quiet, RS Night meetings!

My boss was really into Bunco. She played every week.

The RS Sisters used the excuse that it wasn't a card game, thus it was okay to play. Gambling is gambling. Putting out $50.00 a week for *entertainment* with a chance of winning the pot is still gambling.

Take that $50.00 a week and put it into the tithing envelope- it is better going to the Ward missionary fund or humanitarian fund.

[Wingnut]

So, I've lived in my current ward for over 6.5 years, and in that time, we've never had a Bunco group. We've had the various smaller Relief Society activity groups -- book, cooking, card-making, knitting, quilting, exercise, etc. -- but never Bunco. We've had open invitation generic game nights in the past as well. I had a vague inkling that one or two of the neighboring wards might have had a Bunco group. I know now that they did, but it's been over two years since the last time they had a Bunco night.

A friend hosted Bunco last month, with an open invitation. I didn't put it on my calendar, so I just forgot about it altogether. After it was over, one of the women who had gone sent an email to everyone, saying that they'd had so much fun that they were making it a regular monthly thing, and to let her know if we were interested. I was hesitant, but I haven't been out much lately, and I was itching for a girls' night. I asked her some questions about it (including monetary involvement).

Long story short, I went to my first Bunco night last night. I had fun, I got a prize because I had the lowest score, and I got the outing I needed. After the game was over and a few people had left, some of us were still hanging around talking. I brought up the issue of money.

(1) I don't view it as gambling.

(2) I can afford $5 a month.

Here's the thing: it's not that I can't afford or am morally against the money part of it. I just am not comfortable with it. I don't like the "pay to play" idea. Why can't we just play for the fun of it? Why do there have to be awards and door prizes? My bigger concern, though, is that the money leads to a culture of exclusivity. In February, we give money to March's hostess so she can buy prizes, etc. If we don't pay, we don't play. So say someone didn't know about it or wasn't interested or able to come in February...well, now she can't play in March. (Yes, we live near enough to each other that we could do the money another time, but that's not my point.) I just don't like it.

Also, if there's 12 women in the group, and we each host a month, that's once a year. I can afford to pay $20-$30 on prizes once a year if I want to offer prizes on my hosting month. I think that most women can. Certainly if they can afford $5 a month, they can. (I know that math doesn't add up, but I'm basing it on what the prizes from last night looked like, and the fact that I wouldn't buy anything more extravagant than that anyway.)

Someone did bring up a "letter that went out in Utah," and I mentioned that I hadn't been able to find any evidence of one online, though I'd heard it as well and looked for it. She said that it hadn't been from the First Presidency, but from local stake presidents, so that makes more sense.

Anyway, I just wanted to see how things panned out for Eowyn, since I currently find myself in a similar situation, and while I don't want to be a total party pooper, and I do want to participate, I also want to help change the thinking and culture a little bit.