Regular joe vs. academic

[Bini]

This is an odd question but can a regular joe win a battle of wits against an academic? If yes, how so?

I get into these debates with my sister who is literally just a giant brain. And she pulverises me every, single, time! I get so frustrated sometimes, I just want to throw something across the room :) For me to really compete with her, I'd have to study a certain topic and have sources ready to backup my claims - but then I wouldn't be a regular joe anymore but someone knowledgeable in that subject.

[Wingnut]

One of the early seasons of The Apprentice explored this question. They took half their contestants/candidates from an educated background, and the other half were self-made entrepreneurs. I didn't watch the whole season, so I don't know how the challenges went from week to week, but I do remember that the winner was one of the formally educated challengers.

[Guest]

If it's an academic subject, most likely. But I know some real idiots who managed to get the piece of paper and have zero life skills or common sense, as well as some brilliant minds who never finished college.

[NeuroTypical]

There's a difference between a brainy person and an academic. Academics are people surrounded by academia - they work/attend/live/breathe institutions of higher education. I've encountered some blindingly moronic notions from these people. In my experience, many of them are so totally convinced of their superiority and correctness and have a tendency to dismiss alternative viewpoints without bothering to consider them.

They're not all like that, but many are.

Brainy people can be like that too, but in much lower numbers.

[dahlia]

Sure they can, but it depends on the topic. A regular Joe is probably not going to be able to hold his own against a PhD in physics in a discussion of quantum physics. A regular Josephine can tell me a lot about how information is handled in her department at work, but she doesn't have the background to design a system to support information handling. I would take her input, but I'm doing the design because I have the educational background to do so.

My son is an avid reader of economics and monographs on the founding of the republic. He can out think and out debate anyone I've ever seen in person and on TV on the founding, libertarianism, etc. I think economics and political science are fields that a person with a good analytical mind can read on his own and develop a deep knowledge as good as a PhD who's been sitting in a classroom reading the same materials.

Now if you want to do something useless like debate the attributes of a Jane Austen novel, well, yeah, your opinion is as good as hers. /ducks and runs from the lit majors

[selek]

This is an odd question but can a regular joe win a battle of wits against an academic? If yes, how so?

I get into these debates with my sister who is literally just a giant brain. And she pulverises me every, single, time! I get so frustrated sometimes, I just want to throw something across the room :) For me to really compete with her, I'd have to study a certain topic and have sources ready to backup my claims - but then I wouldn't be a regular joe anymore but someone knowledgeable in that subject.

Just remember: reality trumps theory every single time.

[beefche]

I get into these debates with my sister who is literally just a giant brain.

If she is literally a giant brain, I would treat her like a snail and put a bunch of salt on her.

[Bini]

If she is literally a giant brain, I would treat her like a snail and put a bunch of salt on her.

BWAHAHAHAH.

And, ew!

[Guest]

I literally laughed my head off.

[Bini]

I literally laughed my head off.

I literally saw myself doing as Beefche described..

[Vort]

I literally laughed my head off.

Ha! Ha! Ha! *thunk*

[Vort]

If she is literally a giant brain, I would treat her like a snail and put a bunch of salt on her.

She is literally a giant brain, covered with a cranium, skin, and hair, and with a body growing out the bottom.

[NeuroTypical]

After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the non-existence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it, 'I refute it thus.'

- Boswell's Life of Samuel Johnson

Many people prefer bouncing rocks off the sophist's dang skull to prove the point, but it's something a good Christian should probably abstain from.

[Anddenex]

This is an odd question but can a regular joe win a battle of wits against an academic? If yes, how so?

I get into these debates with my sister who is literally just a giant brain. And she pulverises me every, single, time! I get so frustrated sometimes, I just want to throw something across the room :) For me to really compete with her, I'd have to study a certain topic and have sources ready to backup my claims - but then I wouldn't be a regular joe anymore but someone knowledgeable in that subject.

I personally feel it depends on the focus of the argument. For example, if the focus of the argument is the mental and emotional state of inmates, and my argument is against a person who has specialized in this field...the chances are high I will loose the debate, because I am not studied in this field of science.

However, if the argument has a neutral focus, then an average joe has a better chance to balance the argument in their favor.

[Tough Grits]

I get into these debates with my sister who [...] pulverises me every, single, time!

How do you determine who "wins"? I have known people who argue very vehemently and passionately, but are still wrong.

I go back-and-forth with my step-father on politics, UFO's, and whether or not we actually landed on the moon all the time...but at the end of the day, neither of us has "won". Basically we just passionately bounce our opposite views off of each other until we get tired or until my mom gets mad.

Can facts be debated? I mean, if it's a fact, then it's a fact and there is no point arguing...right? ~TG

[Iggy]

This is an odd question but can a regular joe win a battle of wits against an academic? If yes, how so?

I get into these debates with my sister who is literally just a giant brain. And she pulverises me every, single, time! I get so frustrated sometimes, I just want to throw something across the room :) For me to really compete with her, I'd have to study a certain topic and have sources ready to backup my claims - but then I wouldn't be a regular joe anymore but someone knowledgeable in that subject.

Why are you getting into debates? Are you attempting to show her that you are just as intelligent as she is? Is she trying to prove that she is more intelligent than you are?

My eldest sister was hands down the most intelligent of all the people I knew when it came to useless information aka trivia. I played Trivia Pursuit with her only three times. Why? Because there was no way I could win. She wouldn't settle for just reading the cards and then reading the answers. We had to move the markers, and then Hooray when she got them right.

She ended up being a rather lonely person - because all she wanted to do was win at Trivial Pursuit. The rest of her siblings and their children tired quickly of losing AND being made to feel as stupid as dead cows.

One of her favorite sayings was: I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person After she passed, know where all of her Trivial Pursuit games ended up? Donated to DI.

I was unsure of the meaning/definitation of Battle of the Wits- gotta love google

Thesaurus Legend: Related Words

Noun 1. battle of wits - a contest in which intelligence rather than violence is used

contest - a struggle between rivals (bolding mine.)

You can not be chased if you do not run. You can not be coerced to do wrong if you do not participate. You can not argue if you keep silent.

The only way a regular joe can win is to walk away.

My sister finally quit 'baiting me' when I broke down sobbing and tearfully asked her why she found such pleasure belittling me and flaunting her gift of memory? Do you actually get pleasure from this?

It was a number of years before I would visit her or even talk on the phone with her after that.

Bini, delve into the reasons behind why you two are battling. Perhaps then you will find your answer(s). In the meantime. Don't participate. Graciously bow out ~ change the subject, topic, give her a hug and suggest you gather up your daughter and go for a walk.

[Bini]

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, my sister is an amazing woman, and we don't have any hard feelings between each other. But our chit chatting often opens doors to politics and social issues, which of course, can get heated - especially since she's a Republican and more conservative minded, and I'm a Democrat and more prone to liberal thinking.

[Iggy]

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, my sister is an amazing woman, and we don't have any hard feelings between each other. But our chit chatting often opens doors to politics and social issues, which of course, can get heated - especially since she's a Republican and more conservative minded, and I'm a Democrat and more prone to liberal thinking.

Bini, my sister was an amazing woman too- but her never ceasing need to One Up me in the knowledge department was hurtful. Because of that absolutely NO ONE ever knew how I felt about politics or even about my feelings of faith, because I refused to discuss aka debate it. Even though we were all LDS- my expressions of how I felt were NOT up for debate.

You are upset over your chit chatting with her otherwise you would not have brought it to the board.

Are you two trying to get each other to believe the others view? Are you using the word Understand when you really should be using Agree With Me?

I still stand on you delving deep to your reasons for the debate, battle of wits. And I also stand on you not debating/ battling. Which is why I suggested that you, your sister and your daughter go for a walk together instead.

With my next older sister, we can easily discuss politics ~ or pretty much anything under the sun ~ because she is not out to prove her point or win the battle. I can ask her what she thinks of Presidential Candidate So & So, and she gives me her view point. I can easily explain my opposite view point knowing she isn't going to whack me down with her obviously (to her) correct point of view. When we ask each other: Do you Understand? We knowingly are NOT asking Do You Agree. One time we spent three days of our joint vacation time discussing the meanings and usage of those two words. :) At the end of the time, we both concluded we were in TOTAL ....drumroll here.... AGREEMENT. FYI I haven't a clue as to her political leanings, just as she has no clue as to mine.

We have spent hours upon hours sitting on the swings and benches in the various parks in the huge city of Seattle conversing on every topic we could come up with. I am no longer her little sister The Miscreant - she sees me as an intelligent woman. She is no longer my older sister the Tormentor, I see her as an intelligent and gracious woman.

[dahlia]

I find that people do not really know how to have a heavy discussion with out their emotions getting involved. Maybe it is my law school training, or using the Socratic method in class where I'm constantly questioning students' statements, but I am quite used to discussions (I don't want to call them debates) without getting my emotions involved. Things can get quite heated and I can turn it off in a second and go have a soda with the person. Others find the opportunity for discussion to really be an opportunity to try to convince another of their way of thinking. They are out to prove themselves 'right,' rather than have a discussion on the merits.

I don't 'discuss' with people who can't separate their emotions from the discussion. People get upset, then they don't want to talk to you because you had the temerity to think in a different way and be strong and competent in your rationale, whereas all they could do was bring their emotions. Once I determine what kind of thinker you are (or aren't), and if I still want to have some level of friendship or civility with you, I leave the discussions to fashion, food, and reality TV and leave the intellectual discussions to those who can handle them.

[Anddenex]

especially since she's a Republican and more conservative minded, and I'm a Democrat and more prone to liberal thinking.

Then I am sorry Bini, given this information, the scale is more likely to balance in your sister's direction.

[rameumptom]

"you cannot be saved in ignorance" - Joseph Smith

The key is to be learning useful things. Those who do not seek knowledge, wisdom and truth, are limiting themselves here and in the eternities.

"18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come." D&C 130

God is not an average joe. He is a diligent seeker of all knowledge, intelligence and truth. Average Joes tend to go to the Terrestrial Kingdom, where they were not as valiant....

[Tough Grits]

Others find the opportunity for discussion to really be an opportunity to try to convince another of their way of thinking. They are out to prove themselves 'right,' rather than have a discussion on the merits.

I don't 'discuss' with people who can't separate their emotions from the discussion.

Yes, yes, yes. I like to TALK. I like to SHARE. I like to DISCUSS.

Unfortunately, too many want to take it personal, or argue, or try to prove me wrong. My thoughts, feelings, and opinions cannot be proven wrong---they can only be proven to be different.

Being different is okay. Goodness, I am glad that we are not all exact duplicates of each other. Life would be SO boring.

Why can't I say that I believe that the Lock Ness monster is real, without somebody trying to "prove" me wrong.

SHEESH.

[Guest gopecon]

I've got a BA and I get outwitted by my kids frequently - and they are all under 12!

[Bini]

Then I am sorry Bini, given this information, the scale is more likely to balance in your sister's direction.

LOL

It gets worse.. She is an attorney by profession, so she's good at analysing and having good rebuttals!

[Bini]

Iggy, you really have the wrong idea. We have hearty debates but neither of us harbour hard feelings from them. I just get frustrated that she's got a seemingly good answer for everything! And it leaves me dumbfounded..