Abel

[mikbone]

I was able to get out on a long road bike ride today and I was pondering some concepts of the plan of salvation.

Pre-mortal existence: I wonder how empty this sphere must be. I doubt that any more spirits are being added to it, as everyone there had been present during the war in heaven.

Paradise: This locale must be filling to the brim. And I don't believe that there is any mixing between these two spheres. Finally Abel has the most seniority in Paradise. I also bet that someone was waiting for Abel in Paradise to give him the tour.

[Anddenex]

Finally Abel has the most seniority in Paradise.

Abel died before the resurrection of Jesus Christ, thus would have been one of the individuals resurrected.

Do resurrected beings remain in paradise? Or is there another plain a resurrected being waits until judgement?

I would assume there are plenty of more spirit children in a status of pre-mortal existence, however, those who were foreordained to this earth, I would assume are dwindling.

[Miss_B]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks about stuff like this

[mikbone]

Abel died before the resurrection of Jesus Christ, thus would have been one of the individuals resurrected.

Do resurrected beings remain in paradise? Or is there another plain a resurrected being waits until judgement?

I would assume there are plenty of more spirit children in a status of pre-mortal existence, however, those who were foreordained to this earth, I would assume are dwindling.

I would bet a dollar that Abel has been resurrected :)

I would venture that upon resurrection that you enter the celestial kingdom - if done before the final judgement. But it is possible that resurrected beings can travel into Paradise after Jesus Christ set up the missionary system as described in Section 138. Or not...

If we are getting near to the 2nd coming (fingers crossed) then our pre-mortal existence must be becoming sparse. Even if there were people in our pre-mortal existence sphere who were not destined for this Earth, all of them accepted Jehovah as their savior, and with our second coming I would assume that all other destinations would also receive a visit from Christ. Kinda like 3 Ne 16: 1-3

[Anddenex]

I would bet a dollar that Abel has been resurrected :)

I will up the ante, and raise you one dollar -- $2 -- that he has been resurrected also :)

I would venture that upon resurrection that you enter the celestial kingdom - if done before the final judgement.

Interesting thought, I have also wondered the same thing, because if they were resurrected -- the first resurrection -- would mean they are fully covered by the atonement and are clean.

But it is possible that resurrected beings can travel into Paradise after Jesus Christ set up the missionary system as described in Section 138.

I would bet you $10 that they are able to travel between Paradise and Prison.

If we are getting near to the 2nd coming (fingers crossed)

You can add my fingers and my toes, although not looking forward to the chaos right before.

then our pre-mortal existence must be becoming sparse. Even if there were people in our pre-mortal existence sphere who were not destined for this Earth, all of them accepted Jehovah as their savior, and with our second coming I would assume that all other destinations would also receive a visit from Christ. Kinda like 3 Ne 16: 1-3

Good thought. I believe you to be correct in this assumption that the Lord visited even other worlds populated by Heavenly Father's spirit offspring.

I have some questions that I would consider desiderata pertaining to God's offspring and Savior.

First - How would all of God's children, spirit children fit within a span of 8000 years earth time?

Second - Is it possible our Heavenly Father may have other children who are Saviors for different generations of spirit children? Thus, there are many Gods, many Lords, possibly it could have been said also, many Saviors, but unto us their is but one God, one Savior.

Third - Were other spirit children on other planets awaiting and long lived before our earth was even created?

* Need this emphasis -- this is not Mormon doctrine, solely the thoughts of Anddenex and his questions. To many people out there who like to take members hypo's as doctrine.

[mikbone]

First - How would all of God's children, spirit children fit within a span of 8000 years earth time?

Depends... On how many worlds Jehovah created.

Second - Is it possible our Heavenly Father may have other children who are Saviors for different generations of spirit children? Thus, there are many Gods, many Lords, possibly it could have been said also, many Saviors, but unto us their is but one God, one Savior.

Dunno, but I would bet another dollar that He has many firstborns... One could argue that if we enter into the Highest lvl of the Celestial Kingdom that we will become one of Jehovah's firstborn. D&C 93: 20-22

Third - Were other spirit children on other planets awaiting and long lived before our earth was even created?

Doubt it. Adam was the first of Many

[The Folk Prophet]

I would bet you $10 that they are able to travel between Paradise and Prison.

This is known doctrine. Otherwise, how could the dead be preached to?

[The Folk Prophet]

Doubt it. Adam was the first of Many

Source?

[Anddenex]

This is known doctrine. Otherwise, how could the dead be preached to?

Indeed, this was playful banter with mikbone :)

[mikbone]

This is known doctrine. Otherwise, how could the dead be preached to?

I read section 138 to state that the just spirits in paradise are able to now able to travel into spirit prison to bring the gospel to those in bondage. Not that resurrect beings are able to travel into spirit prison

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't know whether the Church formally continues to teach this; but as late as 1977 we were teaching that the spirit world was here on this earth. I'm not convinced that there's that big of a divide in location between the righteous and the wicked in the spirit world, except to the extent that they choose to segregate themselves.

The Spirit World, Our Next Home

[The Folk Prophet]

First - How would all of God's children, spirit children fit within a span of 8000 years earth time?

To answer this, we would need to know how many children God has, which we don't.

Second - Is it possible our Heavenly Father may have other children who are Saviors for different generations of spirit children? Thus, there are many Gods, many Lords, possibly it could have been said also, many Saviors, but unto us their is but one God, one Savior.

This is a super deep concept and something I struggle with myself a bit. Even assuming that the answer is yes, there's plenty of comments that discuss Jesus being the Savior of more worlds than ours. Scriptural we know He created worlds without number. But He came to our earth and no one else's, to live in mortality? How did we get so lucky? So somewhere, in a galaxy far, far away, they preach, "On a planet in another galaxy on the other side of the universe, the Savior was born to a virgin named Mary...." Seems odd to me. Not that it seeming odd to me means anything as to the truth, but there it is.

Third - Were other spirit children on other planets awaiting and long lived before our earth was even created?

I always understood yes. But I'd have to dig to see if there was supporting material behind it.

[Anddenex]

I always understood yes. But I'd have to dig to see if there was supporting material behind it.

Think temple, is where I get my first thoughts from.

[mikbone]

Source?

Moses 1:34

[The Folk Prophet]

Moses 1:34

The inference here to me is clearly of this earth. Adam is the first man of this earth. He is not the father of other earths. This doesn't preclude earths previous to this one.

[mikbone]

The inference here to me is clearly of this earth. Adam is the first man of this earth. He is not the father of other earths. This doesn't preclude earths previous to this one.

Well He couldn't be the father of other earths. My assumption is that the Man whom created our Adam and Eve probably populated many other earths the same way that our Earth was populated.

As I recall the temple narrative discusses Adam in terms of Moses 1:34 as well...

[The Folk Prophet]

It is interesting. There is definite implication there. Could our earth, indeed, be the first of our Father's earths? Of the worlds without number, could ours actually be the very first one?

Or could it be that the worlds without number referred to in Moses are only the worlds within our known universe, possibly un-populated and created for this earth to reside in? Could Moses only be reference to the creations that are directly related to our world...to this batch of children, so to speak.

[mikbone]

Elohim = Architect

Jehovah = Carpenter

Elohim creates spiritually, Jehovah created our Earth, Solar system, etc... Physically

The beauty of creating spiritually is that it is like a blueprint. And anyone with the means, skill, education, can pick up a blueprint and create the same or very similar abode.

I would bet a wooden nickel that this Earth is the first of Jehovah's physical creations. But I also believe that Elohim also created physically... Wouldn't surprise me if Kolob had not been Elohim's first physical creation or some such....

[The Folk Prophet]

Continuing on with vs. 35 in Moses 1, I think it clarifies things a bit specificaly in:

...there are many worlds that have passed away...there are many that now stand...

I also originally read the start of vs. 35, "But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you." as a separate thought from vs. 34. Reading it again, I can see how it might not be seperate, but actually a continuation.

Read one way: Adam is the first of all...but we'll only talk about this earth or this section of that "all"

Read another way: Adam is the first of all...but we're only talking about this earth, so by that I mean that Adam is the first of this earth...

[mordorbund]

Mikbone, you may enjoy reading the Gospel of Nicodemus. Part 2 contains the purported testimony of Simeon(of Nativity fame)'s two formerly deceased sons concerning Christ's descent to Hell and resurrection. It contains some D&C 138 themes (or 2 Peter if you prefer the biblical foundation); also Adam's bondage in the spirit world; Christ conquers death; deliverance of the righteous ("Adam and his children") from their prison; crossing over from prison to paradise; the giving of the "sign of the cross" as something of a gatekey to pass through the various levels; Enoch and Elijah are found in the body in paradise, serving as a sort of gatekeeper.

[mikbone]

Mikbone, you may enjoy reading the Gospel of Nicodemus

I like the commentary about Moses, Enoch, and Elijah.

Makes you wonder why we don't have a better record of those who were resurrected at the time of Christ's resurrection.

I was hoping for some clarification of the John 3:3-5 passage.

Been looking for that for awhile...

Joseph Smith makes an allusion it in Sermons delivered at Ramus, Ill. on Sunday April 2, 1843

What is the meaning of the Parable of the 10 talents? Also conversation with Nicodemus. except a man be born of water & of the spirit.---I shall not tell you?--

And here Sermon delivered at the General Conference of the Church in Nauvoo, Ill. on April 8, 1840

The President commenced making observations on the different subjects embraced in the chapter particularly on the 3d, 4th, 5th verses illustrating it with a very beautiful and striking figure, and throwing a flood of light on the subjects which were brought up to review

Edited March 30, 2013 by mikbone

[annewandering]

Is there a time when God and our spiritual Mother enter middle age and no longer bear children? Considering eternity is an awfully long time it seems unlikely. Good thing we dont need to know these things in this lifetime. It could get very confusing.

[Vort]

I think there might be more to this Earth than first meets the eye.

This is not really Sagan; it's Edward Abbott.

[mikbone]

There are how many billion on the Earth right now? and yet, if you've ever gone on a road trip, you'll find that most of that trip consists of driving through vast expanses of unpopulated land (at least if the road trip is within the interior of the country and not at the coast). The media always gets everyone all hyped up with overpopulation issues, and yet when I drive around, I just don't see it.

Are you suggesting that the spirit world is in Nebraska?