Pride and the truth

[abeChristianson]

My fiancé who isn't a member says that we sound boastful when we say that we are the tru church. She thinks that we sound like are not true because of this. I need some help explaining to here that we are not trying to be boastful. Thanks.

[Dravin]

My fiancé who isn't a member says that we sound boastful when we say that we are the tru church. She thinks that we sound like are not true because of this. I need some help explaining to here that we are not trying to be boastful. Thanks.

Ask her if it is boastful when Christianity declares that it is through Christ we are saved. I can kinda understand the mindset that says we're boasting, but it's often (if not always) rooted in the premise that it just isn't true (and of course that Doctrine and Covenants 1:30Â* is wholly a creation of Joseph Smith), and that either any path leads to heaven, or at least any Christian path will lead there. Sometimes there are also shades of not quite understanding what we mean when we say we're the True Church, it is not a declaration of a monopoly on truth.

One thing that would be helpful if you are going to try and explain your understanding is to make sure you have a full understanding of where she is coming from. Have you asked her to articulate why it sounds boastful?

Edited August 8, 2013 by Dravin

[Dravin]

My fiancé who isn't a member says that we sound boastful when we say that we are the tru church. She thinks that we sound like are not true because of this. I need some help explaining to here that we are not trying to be boastful. Thanks.

Ask her if it is boastful when Christianity (I'm assuming she's Christian of some sort) declares that it is through Christ we are saved. I can kinda understand the mindset that says we're boasting, but it's often (if not always) rooted in the premise that it just isn't true, and that either any path leads to heaven, or at least any Christian path will lead there. Sometimes there are also shades of not quite understanding what we mean when we say we're the True Church, it is not a declaration of a monopoly on truth.

[Windseeker]

When we say our church is "true" it's not saying that other churches don't have truths. I believe that it's referring to having the only true authentic authority directly from our Heavenly Father to perform saving ordinances like Baptism. It certainly does not mean the LDS people are any better than anyone else.

[applepansy]

Stating truth isn't boastful. Unfortunately its hard to explain that to someone who doesn't want to believe.

"A person convinced against there will is of the same opinion still."

I agree that you need to understand why she feels the way she does before you can address any issues.

[mnn727]

I agree with your fiance' from the outside it does look like that, it was one thing I disliked when I first joined.

We have certain catch phrases that we really should think about and reword them, that's one of them.

[NeuroTypical]

Maybe you could ask her to point to the church that claims to not be the true church, so you could see what nonboastful looks like.

(This is only if your fiance has a sense of humor and wouldn't think you're being sarcastic.)

[Anddenex]

My fiancé who isn't a member says that we sound boastful when we say that we are the tru church. She thinks that we sound like are not true because of this. I need some help explaining to here that we are not trying to be boastful. Thanks.

Whenever a person provides a "faith based" declaration to people who feel differently they may look at this declaration as being boastful, however, stating a fact ( even by faith ) is not boastful -- it is just a fact.

Why do we consider our Church true (Mind you, I am not one that likes this cliche also, "I know the church is true," because what does this actually mean to someone who doesn't know the background?

This declaration, however, stems from a truth we have in scripture as provided in Doctrine and Covenants 1: 30. We declare that our Savior, through the prophet Joseph Smith, declared this is his "true and living church" and the only Church with which he is "well pleased." (italics added to "well")

If this is God's gospel restored, and Joseph Smith was a prophet, then stating the declaration, after receiving a witness ourselves, is not boastful -- depending on the manner in which the statement is given. Example, I have heard (read) many Christians when loosing an argument against an atheist regarding some scientific scenario the Christian responds, "Well, at least I won't spend an eternity in hell." This is boastful and rude. When I think of a boastful testimony I think of the Book of Mormon story specifying the Rameumptom. These were boastful testimonies and unfortunately at times during our fast and testimony meetings sometimes we hear a similar declaration from the pulpit.

When we declare a statement, in order to abash or embarrass another person, then this I would say is boastful. When we simply declare a truth, a truth that we have learned through proper witness from the Holy Ghost, then our testimony is not boastful -- simply a statement of what we know to be true. The statement is neither made to condescend the hearer, nor to uplift the giver.

My few cents in the matter.

[Praetorian_Brow]

I love how we attempt to justify this...cultural phenomenon, but if you ask anyone that you explain this "only truth" to, they will most likely think you are boasting and slightly crazed as I am sure they believe the same thing about their religion.

Funny how we bend over backwards to explain this to people, yet fail to realized that if we modified the zealous statement, it would achie a more diplomatic approach.

I guess no one else sees the irony in being zealous and then having to explain the zeal to avoid offense.

[Quin]

It's a semantics issue I forcibly ignore.

"The" true church v the church is true.

One implies all other faiths are false

The other declares that our faith is not false

I despise the first. I've come across far too many cults and militant extremists in my life to EVER resonate with that kind of close minded hatefulness (I go one giant step beyond "boasting").

But the second is a foundational aspect of a church that says "Don't take my word for it... Go to the source and ask God." A foundational aspect of a church made up of priests. A foundational aspect of a church born during an era of reformation (hundreds of Christian sects popping up all over, some true yearning a, some snake oil & chicanery).

A counter?

The above (aka not false, not false prophets, not false intentions, not snake oil and show me the money).

ALSO... The Articles of faith. Specifically,,..

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

We don't say everyone else is wrong.

We ask that you bring what is right WITH you.

Q

[jerome1232]

It's a semantics issue I forcibly ignore.

"The" true church v the church is true.

They both have the exact.same.meaning. You just randomly throw a false dichotomy at the first one.

"The true church" doesn't mean that other churches, or religions, do not have truths contained in them, which is our position. Just the same as the second wording.

[Anddenex]

I love how we attempt to justify this...cultural phenomenon, but if you ask anyone that you explain this "only truth" to, they will most likely think you are boasting and slightly crazed as I am sure they believe the same thing about their religion.

Funny how we bend over backwards to explain this to people, yet fail to realized that if we modified the zealous statement, it would achie a more diplomatic approach.

I guess no one else sees the irony in being zealous and then having to explain the zeal to avoid offense.

Alma 26. Yep, sorda like Ammon.

[Finrock]

Good Morning Praetorian_Brow. I hope you are doing well today! :)

I love how we attempt to justify this...cultural phenomenon, but if you ask anyone that you explain this "only truth" to, they will most likely think you are boasting and slightly crazed as I am sure they believe the same thing about their religion.

Funny how we bend over backwards to explain this to people, yet fail to realized that if we modified the zealous statement, it would achie a more diplomatic approach.

I guess no one else sees the irony in being zealous and then having to explain the zeal to avoid offense.

When I say that this is God's Church on earth, I am not being zealous. I have in actuality and in reality received a witness from the Holy Ghost that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's true church. This witness to my spirit is real. I did not make it up or just hear about it or just read about it. I actually experienced it. When I say that I know this is God's Church I am speaking without hypocrisy. This isn't a statement to boast that I am special. I am not. I am nothing. I look at my life and my actions and nothing I have done of myself has been worth anything. It is only when I have obeyed God's words and kept His statutes that my actions, my thoughts, and my words have value...true value.

I am telling people what I have experienced, just like I would tell them what I experienced when I went to Disney World or anything else I have experienced that is real and true.

There will always be those who will hear and those who will not. It is not my place to decide who gets to hear my testimony and who doesn't. It is my job to not judge and to invite all to come to Jesus Christ by means of being baptized in His Church which He has restored on earth.

Regards,

Finrock

[Just_A_Guy]

I do think PB has a valid point. If we aren't clearly articulating why the LDS Church's being the "only true church" is important and how that fact has practical application in our everyday lives--then, yes, that is going to come off as little more than naked boasting. For what it's worth, I usually avoid using the phrase "only true Church"--not because I don't believe it, but because I think it's easy to forget what that really means. But I do frequently talk about how particular uniquely Mormon teachings have helped me to draw closer to Christ, live a better life, be of more service to others, and enjoy a higher level of spirituality.

Doctrine is important, but the bread and butter of our missionary effort involves putting that doctrine to work and being willing and able to adequately and sincerely describe the results. That's why missionary work is so hard--if you do it right, you're baring your soul each and every time. It's a highly individualized process; and the most effective answer you can give will be thoughtful, informed, and--crucially--your own. Abstract doctrinal expositions may not be the most effective proselytizing technique for our particular culture.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Just_A_Guy