A child's question nobody could answer.

[Mikedavis]

My daughter recently asked a question in Sunday school that nobody could answer. The question was this "Can a poor man, (for example she gave someone living in the third world) who cannot afford to pay tithing or who never had the opportunity to addend the temple enter the celestial kingdom and be with her family and God?"

[Dravin]

My daughter recently asked a question in Sunday school that nobody could answer. The question was this "Can a poor man, (for example she gave someone living in the third world) who cannot afford to pay tithing or who never had the opportunity to addend the temple enter the celestial kingdom and be with her family and God?"

Yes.

I'm surprised it stumped the Sunday School class unless they mistook can for will. It's a case of an ignorant class rather than a case of a difficult to answer question, it's really a rather easy question to answer.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Dravin

[pam]

How old is your daughter mike?

[Backroads]

I've had this very discussion several times. It's never much of a discussion. It's always "Yes". I don't see why this man wouldn't.

1. You can't pay tithing on money you don't have and therefore don't have to.

2. Temple work for others.

[applepansy]

My daughter recently asked a question in Sunday school that nobody could answer. The question was this "Can a poor man, (for example she gave someone living in the third world) who cannot afford to pay tithing or who never had the opportunity to addend the temple enter the celestial kingdom and be with her family and God?"

Yes!

Why? Because more than our covenants gets us to the Celestial Kingdom. The covenants can be done for him if he doesn't have a chance to hear the gospel in this life. The question is what kind of person was he? Was he sharing all he had with those around him? Was he taking care of those around him to the best of his ability? Is he following the commandment to love his neighbor as himself? And even then... if he dies without hearing the gospel and accepts the ordinances done in proxy he will have the opportunity to return to Heavenly Father.

Flip side: And maybe it would be a good question to pose to the child: "Will a person born in the covenant, baptized, went on a mission, paid his tithing, married in the temple, automatically going to the Celestial Kingdom? When you answer this question you answer the first one.

[MrShorty]

The other thing that I would add is that this is exactly why Christ atoned for our sins. Christ's atonement is all about allowing us to overcome any and all ways that we come up short in this life. As LDS, it sometimes seems like we have a tendency towards what other Christians call "legalism." I think we sometimes "forget" or lose sight of the fact that, when all is said and done, Christ's blood is what makes us clean and permits us to enter the Celestial Kingdom. And Christ's atonement is sufficient to overcome any and all shortcomings or "situations" we may find ourselves in.

[mnn727]

Who'd she ask? cause most LDS should easily be able to answer that.

[Guest]

I was curious, so I asked my 10-year-old. Thank goodness he knew the answer to it. But his answer started with: Why can't she afford tithing? Because, you know, that matters. Yes, his words exactly.

[Lakumi]

I was curious, so I asked my 10-year-old. Thank goodness he knew the answer to it. But his answer started with: Why can't she afford tithing? Because, you know, that matters. Yes, his words exactly.

I can answer that for my own situation...

"Up until a week ago I had no job, and thus had no income, and knowing my hours for the rest of the month should I tithe 10% of my income, the church would get less then 20 dollars. I can't afford it because part time jobs are an insult and this city doesn't exactly have a good array of employment"

[Guest]

I can answer that for my own situation...

"Up until a week ago I had no job, and thus had no income, and knowing my hours for the rest of the month should I tithe 10% of my income, the church would get less then 20 dollars. I can't afford it because part time jobs are an insult and this city doesn't exactly have a good array of employment"

10% of 0 is 0. 10% of the rest of the month is not something you have yet because you did not earn it yet. So it's still 0. So, as of today, you're still a full tithe payer... Until you get your first paycheck. That is, if you're a baptized Mormon. If you get $100 paycheck, tithes is $10. It doesn't really matter if it's less than $20.

Edited September 21, 2013 by anatess

[Lakumi]

10% of 0 is 0. 10% of the rest of the month is not something you have yet because you did not earn it yet. So it's still 0. So, as of today, you're still a full tithe payer... Until you get your first paycheck. That is, if you're a baptized Mormon. If you get $100 paycheck, tithes is $10. It doesn't really matter if it's less than $20.

the first cheque I got was 20 dollars from the orientation day

I do remember the Missionaries telling me that the church doesn't expect people who, like are on welfare and such to tithe- as one put it "people can starve on welfare if they're not careful"

I make less then they do, right now... I miss being a janitor:lol:

but all that is rather irrelevant since I am not baptized so...yeah

[Dravin]

I was curious, so I asked my 10-year-old. Thank goodness he knew the answer to it. But his answer started with: Why can't she afford tithing? Because, you know, that matters. Yes, his words exactly.

The really interesting thing is that given the premises involved in the question the answer remains the same if we substitute a poor person with a rich person. It makes it harder to think of a scenario where it is the case, but the answer remains the same unless you change the premises of the question. Namely, someone who can't pay tithing (rather than won't) and doesn't have the opportunity to attend the temple (again can't verses won't).

Edited September 21, 2013 by Dravin

[applepansy]

the first cheque I got was 20 dollars from the orientation day

I do remember the Missionaries telling me that the church doesn't expect people who, like are on welfare and such to tithe- as one put it "people can starve on welfare if they're not careful"

I make less then they do, right now... I miss being a janitor:lol:

but all that is rather irrelevant since I am not baptized so...yeah

The missionaries were mistaken. Even a $20 increase should be tithed.

Why would the poor to not get the blessings of being a full tithe payer? I can't afford to not pay tithing and we are far from rich, heck we're far from comfortable. Our finances don't work out unless we pay our tithing.

[Just_A_Guy]

My daughter recently asked a question in Sunday school that nobody could answer.

What was your answer, Mike?

[Lakumi]

The missionaries were mistaken. Even a $20 increase should be tithed.

Why would the poor to not get the blessings of being a full tithe payer? I can't afford to not pay tithing and we are far from rich, heck we're far from comfortable. Our finances don't work out unless we pay our tithing.

no no they said expect, they did say everyone should try

I don't remember exactly how they said it... it was a few weeks ago

I still wouldn't want to be the guy that gets the 2 dollar tithing cheque and has to do the accounting mumbo jumbo for that:lol:

[Dravin]

I still wouldn't want to be the guy that gets the 2 dollar tithing cheque and has to do the accounting mumbo jumbo for that

If you're trying to impliy that it'd be some great ordeal for the Ward Clerk to handle, how is a $2 tithing check more of a hassle than a $200 check? Additionally, and I don't think you are consciously doing this, you mock and minimize the sacrifice of the individual who is a full tithe payer with a $2 check. If anything the sacrifice represented by tithing from the poor is more precious not less.

1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.

2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.

3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:

4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Dravin

[ChronoTrigger]

If you make ten cents, you give a penny. You must always tithe 10% at least. Even those on welfare can give 10% of what welfare brings in.

[skippy740]

Lesson of the widow's mite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The widow gave the equivalent of two pennies.

Here's the other observation: Jesus left the money in the treasury.

What does this mean? Every willing heart should pay their tithes and offerings.

[Lakumi]

If you're trying to impliy that it'd be some great ordeal for the Ward Clerk to handle, how is a $2 tithing check more of a hassle than a $200 check? Additionally, and I don't think you are consciously doing this, you mock and minimize the sacrifice of the individual who is a full tithe payer with a $2 check. If anything the sacrifice represented by tithing from the poor is more precious not less.

well if the individual is me then, I don't see the harm in mocking... me

I am not taking offence

and it really doesn't but I have heard accountants making jokes about cheques that are really low and having to go to the bank and such

I don't understand accountant jokes but they find it funny- all accounting is generally the same

[Mikedavis]

The really interesting thing is that given the premises involved in the question the answer remains the same if we substitute a poor person with a rich person. It makes it harder to think of a scenario where it is the case, but the answer remains the same unless you change the premises of the question. Namely, someone who can't pay tithing (rather than won't) and doesn't have the opportunity to attend the temple (again can't verses won't).

Thank you Dravin. I think, as you say the key word here is "ability" rather than "unwillingness" to do A,B,C etc. With respect to tithing things are a little less black and white since it could be said that the financial hardship placed on the widow of little means who tithes is far more than that of the rich man. One reason perhaps why tithing should be based on ones ability to tithe "after" the bills have been paid? But this is aside from the original question my Daughter asked and which I feel Dravin has already answered.

PAM - In answer to your question. Our daughter is 14 years old.

Thanks to all who took the time to answer.

[Dravin]

One reason perhaps why tithing should be based on ones ability to tithe "after" the bills have been paid?

Feel free to take it up with the Lord, it's his system.

[pam]

PAM - In answer to your question. Our daughter is 14 years old.

Thanks to all who took the time to answer.

Thanks. I was just curious as to what age group we were talking about here.

[McLainDow]

Tithing can be paid in other ways besides income. I have seen some people in low income places give a tenth of the food they grow. Also remember if someone doesn't ever here about a divine law such as tithing, in mortality they will not be held responsible for not living it.

[Lakumi]

Tithing can be paid in other ways besides income. I have seen some people in low income places give a tenth of the food they grow. Also remember if someone doesn't ever here about a divine law such as tithing, in mortality they will not be held responsible for not living it.

people grow food?!

(I kid... I grow herbs, like sage and oregano... I think there's a plum tree I ought to harvest... no wait I already did)

[jerome1232]

Maybe this is unrelated but if someone who has a lot of disposable income simply pays their 10% tithe and spends the rest of their money on themselves is still going to be accountable to God in a big way. I would expect anyone who has the means to do so to be involved in private charity, someone who has spare time to be donating their labor, and etc.. to be fully in line with gospel teachings on sacrifice and service.

Where as a person who is dirt poor, and paying their tithe before bills, leaning on the lord for their support is fully living the law of sacrifice.

I think this video embodies that principle

Edited September 21, 2013 by jerome1232