The biggest drug corrupting Mormons of all time

[ChronoTrigger]

Porn. Nothing has been more addictive to Mormons than porn. Utah even ranks number 1 in online porn subscriptions. That means actually paying for online porn, when so much of it is free. That's a strong drug addiction right there.

[Guest]

No argument from me.

[jerome1232]

If you ever take a look at the study, you find the diversity between states is itty bitty.

Also with only 60% of Utah being LDS, and I'd give them a 40% activity rate at best, I don't think those "porn hungry" mormons are the factor raising online subscriptions. It's more likely the highly restrictive laws on porn and other factors that tend to raise online subscription rates.

In short, I don't think we, as a culture, are any more seduced by this than others. Still a sad state of affairs though.

[carlimac]

I would think active Mormons would be less likely to have paid subscriptions than other people for whom it's not a moral issue. Paid would be harder to hide from spouse or family member. Unfortunately there is more than enough of the free stuff to mess up lives pretty badly.

[pam]

I would think active Mormons would be less likely to have paid subscriptions than other people for whom it's not a moral issue. Paid would be harder to hide from spouse or family member. Unfortunately there is more than enough of the free stuff to mess up lives pretty badly.

I kind of disagree with this. I think there are many "active" Mormons who also struggle with this issue and probably pay for subscriptions. And just like any other addiction, there are plenty of ways to hide these things from a spouse.

[Lakumi]

people pay for it?

I donno how one can get addicted to porn, I am addicted to pepsi cola, porn was something I dropped and that was it. I didn't get withdrawal or sick like I do if I go without pepsi.

Pepsi changes my mood, makes things a little bit better, for a split second I feel happy.

Porn filled a feeling I often felt was an inconvenience to me.

I donno where I was going with all that, but I have seen that whole Utah being the largest porn state, and the numbers are often hazy at best.

[prisonchaplain]

It may seem like semantics, but it sounds like medical experts are looking at excessive porn use more as a problem of compulsive behavior, rather than an addiction. The draw is more one of routines and behaviors than physical. Is Pornography Addictive?

It's a tough beast for people of faith to conquer. Some have formed support groups, similar to AA and NA. Support Groups for sex addiction There are also a few faith-based treatment centers for those who want to tackle the issue head-on and full time, in a residential setting. Pure Life Ministries Live-In Program

Edited September 28, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[Lakumi]

It may seem like semantics, but it sounds like medical experts are looking at excessive porn use more as a problem of compulsive behavior, rather than an addiction. The draw is more one of routines and behaviors than physical. Is Pornography Addictive?

It's a tough beast for people of faith to conquer. Some have formed support groups, similar to AA and NA. Support Groups for sex addiction There are also a few faith-based treatment centers for those who want to tackle the issue head-on and full time, in a residential setting. Pure Life Ministries Live-In Program

I think it gets overlooked more then other things, is because people not of faith generally don't think of it as an issue. Where religious groups have a general consensus on it, people like athiests and the like do not, so I imagine that makes things harder to get a general idea what it does to someone.

[prisonchaplain]

Lakumi, right you are. Ironically, we have a strange alliance on this matter...with feminists. They see pornography as demeaning to women, whereas we believe it to tempt viewers to lust. We also agree with feminists that it distorts viewers perceptions of their partners. Viewers of pornography often become unrealistic in their expectations, and selfish in their sexual relationships.

[Lakumi]

Lakumi, right you are. Ironically, we have a strange alliance on this matter...with feminists. They see pornography as demeaning to women, whereas we believe it to tempt viewers to lust. We also agree with feminists that it distorts viewers perceptions of their partners. Viewers of pornography often become unrealistic in their expectations, and selfish in their sexual relationships.

I have seen it do that to people, mind you those people were mentally unstable human beings largely incapable of relationships, so when someone brought that up, it held no grounds to them.

To say pornography is a victimless crime can be true and false.

Indeed if a committed man or woman watches it then yes it can make them unrealistic or selfish or just ...how do I put this... desire things that cannot occur in human sexual relationships

But then you have the mentally unstable person, lets use people with Asperger's as an example, since I know many and I too share that mental illness with them.

Religion and Asperger's very rarely mix, its not a desire for atheism, its just no one can say and prove where God is and for a lot of them, faith is an alien concept.

So, as one might know, people with Asperger's are usually pretty terrible with socializing. And thus become alone and depressed and... porn is really all they will ever have.

It is not out of selfishness, but simply that is all the world gives them.

I don't look down on them. I never will.

Every person with Asperger's who did believe in a God had a weird, totally out there idea about it all (myself included)...

[Jenamarie]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2432591/Experiment-convinced-online-porn-pernicious-threat-facing-children-today-By-ex-lads-mag-editor-MARTIN-DAUBNEY.html has been popping up in my Facebook feed today. A former magazine editor, who used to see no harm in porn, now likens unrestricted internet access for teens to leaving heroine lying around the house.

[Misshalfway]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2432591/Experiment-convinced-online-porn-pernicious-threat-facing-children-today-By-ex-lads-mag-editor-MARTIN-DAUBNEY.html has been popping up in my Facebook feed today. A former magazine editor, who used to see no harm in porn, now likens unrestricted internet access for teens to leaving heroine lying around the house.

I read this article too.

I think the discussion on porn feels a lot like the older discussions about cigarettes. I think the reality of it's "pernicious-ness" is slowly dawning on us.

It's somewhat frustrating to me that medical/psychiatric views categorize the problem as compulsive even though I can see why they are having a problem designating the issue under the "addiction" umbrella. I was disappointed to see at least some designation in the DSM V. But no.

Good part is that the label is less important than getting honest about the problem. I watched a TED.com talk on this. It's called "the great Porn experiment". It talks about how the ability to access so much novelty on the internet is literally blowing out the brain. 20 year old men who are using porn a lot, are now going to the dr. asking for viagra because they are unable to achieve (wording this carefully) normal male anatomical changes. :) In short, the human body just wasn't meant to experienced such an overload.

I'm afraid we are going to be very slow to learn, even with all of the information that is out there.

[Praetorian_Brow]

I find it hilarious that many woman who despise pornography, have no qualms about reading romance novels, or 50 Shades of Grey.

Every discussion on this topic, extremes are mentioned, when the majority of people who watch pornography are in the middle ground, simply looking for an avenue to satiate their desires. Most seem generally ignorant of the topic and cite the example of their cousin's wife's brother who destroyed their marriage and became a sex offender because of pornography. I even heard of people believing pornography leads to serial killer status as Tim Bundy gave that as a his "gateway drug".

I find that the judgement, the shunning, and the accusations become more of a problem than the actual activity for the person who was honest and confessed about it. I am by no means arguing that there is no impact, but sheesh, tone back the rhetoric.

Yes, it is spiritually unwelcome and wrong, but that doesn't mean the user is any less of a person. It astounds me that so many have confessed to this problem within the church, but they are considered more dangerous than drug addicts, alcoholics and are considered akin to sexual predators.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Praetorian_Brow

[prisonchaplain]

Jesus said to lust after a woman is to commit adultery in the heart. Porn almost always involves lust. So, it may not be sexual predation, but is bad. There probably is more shame to this than many other sins. Guilt that leads to repentance is a good thing. Accusations and judgment of those who repent, regardless of sin, is spiritual poison.

[Just_A_Guy]

Every discussion on this topic, extremes are mentioned, when the majority of people who watch pornography are in the middle ground, simply looking for an avenue to satiate their desires. Most seem generally ignorant of the topic and cite the example of their cousin's wife's brother who destroyed their marriage and became a sex offender because of pornography. I even heard of people believing pornography leads to serial killer status as Tim Bundy gave that as a his "gateway drug".

I agree with your concerns about judging those who admit to using pornography (and I would add, FWIW, that at least in my current UT Valley ward--I think the approach taken, both in public discourse and in private with the bishops I've worked with--we're getting pretty close to striking the right balance).

But the point that, I think, needs to be repeated again and again, is that porn use does tend create some incorrect expectations of what a sexual relationship should be. It does tend to stunt one's ability to form meaningful bonds later in life. Porn use isn't just a normal "boys-will-be-boys" part of growing up like scraped knees, torn clothing, schoolyard fights, and the occasional broken window or dented car. It is per se harmful, and its consequences tend to continue on into the long term.

MissHalfWay, I seem to remember hearing that there's a bit of a disconnect between the mental health community versus the medical community--the former reluctant to admit such a thing as "porn addiction", whereas the latter--being more influenced by things like brain scans, etc--is much more on-board with the idea. Is there any truth in this?

[Lakumi]

I find it hilarious that many woman who despise pornography, have no qualms about reading romance novels, or 50 Shades of Grey.

Every discussion on this topic, extremes are mentioned, when the majority of people who watch pornography are in the middle ground, simply looking for an avenue to satiate their desires. Most seem generally ignorant of the topic and cite the example of their cousin's wife's brother who destroyed their marriage and became a sex offender because of pornography. I even heard of people believing pornography leads to serial killer status as Tim Bundy gave that as a his "gateway drug".

I find that the judgement, the shunning, and the accusations become more of a problem than the actual activity for the person who was honest and confessed about it. I am by no means arguing that there is no impact, but sheesh, tone back the rhetoric.

Yes, it is spiritually unwelcome and wrong, but that doesn't mean the user is any less of a person. It astounds me that so many have confessed to this problem within the church, but they are considered more dangerous than drug addicts, alcoholics and are considered akin to sexual predators.

The last time I went to church they had a talk about, amongst other things pornography and they made the whole pornography might make you a killer thing.

I have never been more uncomfortable, talking very negatively on things I don't agree with the church on (sexuality and things relating to it-basically the law of chastity)

I mean I don't expect to agree with everything a church says, people told me that from the get go. And I am surprised I did with what I have...

But I didn't know what to say, and said nothing... I mean what do you say to that?

[pam]

I hardly believe that they said that pornography can make you a killer.

Talking about the law of chastity is not a negative. It might be to you because you don't agree with it...but to us as members it is not a negative.

You may not agree with what our church teaches. I get that. But it's starting to get a bit annoying to have all of the negative comments posted as well.

Edited September 30, 2013 by pam

[Lakumi]

I hardly believe that they said that pornography can make you a killer.

Talking about the law of chastity is not a negative. It might be to you because you don't agree with it...but to us as members it is not a negative.

You may not agree with what our church teaches. I get that. But it's starting to get a bit annoying to have all of the negative comments posted as well.

no just how they talked about it...Not the church's fault, one can't blame a whole church because I didn't like what one person said.

I also had a panic attack about 4 days later at the thought of getting baptized amongst the other fears, its a long story.

I do agree with a lot of it, that relations should be between people who love each other in marriage, and I do regret not waiting.

As a church, I still believe the LDS one is the best, it is the most warm and ultimately human feeling one.

And I said that to the missionaries, the church seems the most down to earth and understanding.

And I believe that.

I don't see it as a negative to disagree with something, I enjoy opening up a dialog with others and talking about it. Some people take it as an offence, and I don't wish to ever make it look like that.

[pam]

You said and I quote "talking very negatively on things I don't agree with the church on (sexuality and things relating to it-basically the law of chastity)"

You have mentioned numerous times in other threads that you don't agree with the Law of Chastity.

Just saying....

[Lakumi]

You said and I quote "talking very negatively on things I don't agree with the church on (sexuality and things relating to it-basically the law of chastity)"

You have mentioned numerous times in other threads that you don't agree with the Law of Chastity.

Just saying....

true, and I wonder where I go from here?

I do wonder if other investigators have the same feeling, and what they did?

(and I should note that sometimes I am not in a good mindset, emotions just hit me and I get far more negative about things then I actually am. And some of the disagreements, more like most, are born out of selfish reasoning)

I am a very selfish person, and they say the first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one.

I have lots.

[Lakumi]

and also, I think I find things to be negative about, to avoid things. Perhaps out of fear, I don't know, I just get angry, or sad and the things that didn't really bug me before get me all bent out of shape. And I look back on them and wonder where that feeling came from...

and I apologize for that

[Leah]

I find it hilarious that many woman who despise pornography, have no qualms about reading romance novels, or 50 Shades of Grey.

Every discussion on this topic, extremes are mentioned, when the majority of people who watch pornography are in the middle ground, simply looking for an avenue to satiate their desires. Most seem generally ignorant of the topic and cite the example of their cousin's wife's brother who destroyed their marriage and became a sex offender because of pornography. I even heard of people believing pornography leads to serial killer status as Tim Bundy gave that as a his "gateway drug".

I find that the judgement, the shunning, and the accusations become more of a problem than the actual activity for the person who was honest and confessed about it. I am by no means arguing that there is no impact, but sheesh, tone back the rhetoric.

Yes, it is spiritually unwelcome and wrong, but that doesn't mean the user is any less of a person. It astounds me that so many have confessed to this problem within the church, but they are considered more dangerous than drug addicts, alcoholics and are considered akin to sexual predators.

Do you have anything other than your personal opinion to back up the claim in your first sentence?

[Leah]

The last time I went to church they had a talk about, amongst other things pornography and they made the whole pornography might make you a killer thing.

I have never been more uncomfortable, talking very negatively on things I don't agree with the church on (sexuality and things relating to it-basically the law of chastity)

I mean I don't expect to agree with everything a church says, people told me that from the get go. And I am surprised I did with what I have...

But I didn't know what to say, and said nothing... I mean what do you say to that?

Can you give us more details on the "porn will make you a killer" talk? This was in sacrament meeting? Did they quote general authorities? What kinds of citations did they use? How did they make the connection from porn to murderer?

[Praetorian_Brow]

Nope, but if you really want proof, go stand in the Romance section at your library for awhile and if you want more proof, do some research on the explosion of Romance novels in e-book format. I used my powers of intuition, pop culture and tin foil hat to come up with that theory.

As far as the killer part, some Mormon women had posted it on facebook and I understand how people can think like that given what I have heard and how I have personally been treated.

[Lakumi]

Can you give us more details on the "porn will make you a killer" talk? This was in sacrament meeting? Did they quote general authorities? What kinds of citations did they use? How did they make the connection from porn to murderer?

I don't recall if they quoted anyone, it was at the classroom (Gospel Studies? I can never remember what its called).

While I did disagree, I do think I have a tendency to "go up to 11" sometimes.

As I said sometimes I think I look for it, and I feel bad... I was actually pretty happy there, I am never happy.

Moving on, I don't exactly remember much, this was like 5 weeks ago (and I did get sick a few days after).