Thread split - "not ready"

[NightSG]

Please do consider such factors as the promises you made to him and to God, and the fact that women over 40 (I'm in that age bracket myself) do have lower fertility and considerably higher rates of problems like chromosomal abnormalities in their children (for example, Down's syndrome and similar).

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a high incidence of mid-singles women who just don't get this? I've seen a lot of "I want a big family, but I'm just not [settled into my career|over my divorce ten years ago|ready to date] yet at [35-42].

It's bad enough that they can't seem to figure out menopause is HF's way of saying "get a move on," but they don't seem to care what continuing to make excuses might do to their future kids if they ever do get ready.

[Quin]

LOL... Did you ask me out, and I said I wasn't dating?

((Ahem. Otherwise known as... What's your dog in this fight?))

Q

30-mumble, not-dating, single mum... And apparent uncaring idiot only full of excuses

[Praetorian_Brow]

Don't worry, I am making excuses too. I am 30, single, was laid off from my 50k a year job, 3 months ago, have no kids and am waiting for who knows what to happen, while my swimmers are aging and my bank account drying up.

Toss in a woman who I love, who plays me and other men, comes and goes, while telling me if only I fixed this and this about myself, we would be together, despite me teaching her what she needs for a relationship, love, worthiness, patience that sort of thing.

Life is fun, eh?

[Praetorian_Brow]

Don't worry, I am making excuses too. I am 30, single, was laid off from my 50k a year job, 3 months ago, have no kids and am waiting for who knows what to happen, while my swimmers are aging and my bank account drying up.

Toss in a woman who I love, who plays me and other men, comes and goes, while telling me if only I fixed this and this about myself, we would be together, despite me teaching her what she needs for a relationship, love, worthiness, patience that sort of thing.

Life is fun, eh?

[Wingnut]

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a high incidence of mid-singles women who just don't get this?

I think there are a lot of women who don't get it. They see Hollywood women successfully (and seemingly un-problematically) having children in their 40s, 50s, and even 60s. Obviously that means it's possible. We've created a culture in which it is less important to take such matters seriously and prudently, because it's easy enough to take a pill later.

I don't think it's a problem for women to want to have a solid career before heading into a "second life," but they need to not be under the delusion that they can still have a large family.

[beefche]

I think it might be a few reasons that cause this. One, too many people look to celebrities as people to emulate--many of this is subconscious. Celebrities are having children at later ages. However, what's probably not talked about alot with those celebrities is they go to fertility clinics/doctors for help. Anyone who has children after age 40 are likely to have had IVF done (not all, but many of them do, especially if it is their first child).

Another thing going on is everyone's emphasis on having things or situations completed prior to marriage. "I need to finish college before I marry." or "I need to get established in a career before I marry." And then those thoughts bleed over into having kids. "We need to finish college before we have kids so we can have some money."

I think too many aren't thinking of biological clocks ticking when considering marriage/children. And I think way too many people (men and women) think of choosing a spouse as something that will just hit them--"I saw her standing across the room and I just KNEW she was the one." Unfortunately, once again the Hollywood version of love has rooted itself in the LDS people.

[NightSG]

((Ahem. Otherwise known as... What's your dog in this fight?))

Took a mid-30s woman to lunch, and the topic turned to kids. She wants 4-5, but not until she "feels settled in her career." By her own estimate, that would be another 4 years, meaning that if she can find a husband as soon as she's ready and get pregnant on the honeymoon night, she might have the first just before she turns 40.

Since then, in talking to other MSA women, I hear pretty similar stories all the time.

[Misshalfway]

I can't count how many people I've heard say "I want 12". Then they have 1 and suddenly they are only having 3.

I'm in my 40's and the thought of starting a family at this time in my life scares me to death! I couldn't do it. I needed my youth to tackle all the baby years.

But everyone's life is different and everyone makes their choices. I know a couple who did marry late into their 30's and now they are mid forties with 3 tiny kids. They say "we're catching up" but they are happy and it's working for them...even though they are really tired. :)

I know that I don't agree with the hollywood family planning model, but I'm not sure I want my kids getting married at 20 either. I jokingly tell my kids that I'll hurt them if they get engaged before the age of 25.

[mnn727]

Is it any wonder that our leaders tell us not to wait to get married and have kids?

[Lakumi]

I don't ever want any kids, that idea has always frightened me, even more as an adult (since I understand more what I would pass down to them)

[NightSG]

Is it any wonder that our leaders tell us not to wait to get married and have kids?

It's not waiting to have kids that bugs me so much as waiting to even date until they feel like they're ready for kids. That is pretty much bound to lead to bad decisions when the biological clock is ticking away.

AFAICT, nowhere in any Church literature does it even suggest that a couple must start trying to get pregnant on the honeymoon night. Being married without kids is (at least if you're doing it right) a stabilizing and encouraging influence compared to trying to achieve all your goals alone; you have a roommate who is (again, if you're doing it right) on board with all your goals that you can split the bills and chores with, a best friend (see the "doing it right" bit again) who can be there for you right away even when you wake up in a cold sweat at 4AM, and the bishop isn't always pestering you to get out and meet people when you need to be studying. Best of all, you've already done the hardest part of having kids; finding the right person to have them with. You can then start on the rest of the process in one pleasant evening instead of beginning the search while time is running out.

[jerome1232]

while my swimmers are aging and my bank account drying up.

For what's it worth, the swimmers don't really go bad with age, only eggs do. (biology is so sexist)

[Dravin]

For what's it worth, the swimmers don't really go bad with age, only eggs do. (biology is so sexist)

Actually my understanding is they do, though it is a more gradual process. There is also a certain 'survival of the fittest' process for male gametes during the whole reproduction process, the more malformed they are the less likely they are to make it first to the egg, and with the shear number involved even if only 30% are at their peak that's a whole heck of a lot.

[Quin]

Is it any wonder that our leaders tell us not to wait to get married and have kids?

There is a HUGE difference though, in not waiting to have kids when you're all tabula rasa, and when you're retreading.

Monumental difference.

An avg 20yo with no credit, no education, just starting out normal vs

An avg 35yo divorcée with destroyed credit (very very few retain good credit through a divorce), no -or out of date/inadequate- education, starting OVER... Often with debt pushing 6 figures (divorces easily cost 40k-80k), children needing a lot of time/money, emotional scars/baggage, court battles, the list goes on.

Also important (very!) to mention... The kind of guy who is attracted to you when you're a HotMess is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT kind of guy than one who is attracted to you once you've gotten yourself together and are capable/confidant/ doing well/ have come into your own. (Knights in Shining Armor tend not to like you once you don't need rescuing, and predators also seek out more desperate prey just as two examples of why many women avoid dating for several years). ARE there guys who'll laugh with you rough the bad times, and revel in your successes later on? Yup. But they're rare. Most PEOPLE are attracted to who one IS, not who one might be. Birds of a feather, like to like, even opposites attract all work off of us being who we are in a fairly static sense.

Just because a woman is now single again at 35 doesn't mean she reverts back to being 20... Nor that advice which is sound for the average 20yo is still sound for the average 35yo.

Q

[jerome1232]

Actually my understanding is they do, though it is a more gradual process. There is also a certain 'survival of the fittest' process for male gametes during the whole reproduction process, the more malformed they are the less likely they are to make it first to the egg, and with the shear number involved even if only 30% are at their peak that's a whole heck of a lot.

I think that's a much more technical description of "doesn't really go bad" because it generally doesn't much affect a males reproductive viability later in age, and it doesn't really increase the risk of birth defects.

[Quin]

I can't count how many people I've heard say "I want 12". Then they have 1 and suddenly they are only having 3.

:lol: Too Right!!!

Almost or as funny as nonparents telling parents

- How they're doing "it" wrong (pick a subject, any subject!)

- How THEY'RE going to do "it" when THEY have kids (good luck with that!)

((I'm in the opposite boat. I didn't want any (I'd be the cool auntie), until I had my first... Then I wanted 5-10. < grin > I know a lot of "us" (from my preLDSdays) who weren't hipped on having kids... Who are now suddenly waist deep in little ones and just shocked (go figure) at how amazing they are & how much we love it. Serious feminism run amok. I can't say for sure, but I often get the impression that if I'd been looking at marriage not just for my own self, but as a father to my future-kids that I wouldn't have made the choices I did. Since I "was never", though, looking at men as fathers and not just lovers didn't enter into my dating process. ))

Q

[NightSG]

Actually my understanding is they do, though it is a more gradual process. There is also a certain 'survival of the fittest' process for male gametes during the whole reproduction process, the more malformed they are the less likely they are to make it first to the egg, and with the shear number involved even if only 30% are at their peak that's a whole heck of a lot.

I think Story Musgrave would tend to agree that they really don't go bad. (That, or he's just living proof that living your dreams to the fullest keeps 'em healthy.)

[carlimac]

I don't know if they go bad or not but when I was pregnant with my 7th child at 44 ( had one at 43, too) and my husband was also over 40, I read about a study suggesting there are higher incidents of young adults with schizophrenia if their fathers were over 40 when they were conceived. That made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

So far so good with my two caboosies but they're still too young for that kind of mental illness to manifest itself. In every other way they are perfectly normal little girls.