In response to that Utah Fed judge ruling...

[carlimac]

I first heard about it on Facebook as a highschool friend ( former LDS, seminary going buddy) announced he and his boyfriend are now married. My initial reaction was a nauseous feeling. I didn't throw up or anything. I'm not that dramatic. But then came the sorrow and frustration. Not only towards him personally but about this whole messed up legal system. My gut reaction was to call him out on it, to chastise him and get in his face as he does to others who disagree with him. Obviously I'm not going to do that. I've tangled with him enough on facebook about political issues that I know it never gets us to a point of friendliness. It's not worth the effort of trying to defend my stance or beliefs. PLus he had at least 30 ecstatic responses to his news. (No one I knew by the way.)

I feel like I should say something to him but I don't know what. I guess I'm glad he has someone to inherit his stuff when he dies, someone to visit him in the hospital but that's as far as it goes. I'm not going to say that. That's just not socially acceptable- really.

So someone help me out here. What should our reactions as stalwart believers of the gospel of Jesus Christ be to this kind of news? WWJD or say? Is it our responsibility to do what He would do or do we just follow Thumper's mother's advice. "If you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all." What does it really mean to take on the name of Christ in these situations?

Edited December 23, 2013 by carlimac

[Praetorian_Brow]

He would probably laugh, congratulate them and give them a hug, but not perform the ceremony himself.

My understanding of gay parents is that most adopt and are good parents, as they actually understand communication and commitment, so the notion that they don't have posterity is false.

[carlimac]

. PLus he had at least 30 ecstatic responses to his news. (No one I knew by the way.)

I take that back. Several of my friends "liked" his status. And some of them very active church members. I just can't bring myself to do it. I just can't. The whole thing makes me sad.

[carlimac]

He would probably laugh, congratulate them and give them a hug, but not perform the ceremony himself.

My understanding of gay parents is that most adopt and are good parents, as they actually understand communication and commitment, so the notion that they don't have posterity is false.

I have no doubt many of them are great parents. That's not the issue though. And it doesn't have anything to do with my post.

[Suzie]

Is it our responsibility to do what He would do

And in this particular scenario, what He would do?

Do I just go along pretending everything is groovy when I see him at the family holiday get-together. Or do I take him aside and tell him what I really think.

Are we talking about your high school friend or your nephew? If we are talking about your nephew, what do you intent to accomplish by telling him what you really think?

[Praetorian_Brow]

It does, because you implied that he wouldn't have anyone children for inheritance if he was gay. To me, I read the tone of your post and it seemed as if you were grudgingly granting him the comfort of his boyfriend and no one else. As if to punish him for being gay.

[carlimac]

It does, because you implied that he wouldn't have anyone children for inheritance if he was gay. To me, I read the tone of your post and it seemed as if you were grudgingly granting him the comfort of his boyfriend and no one else. As if to punish him for being gay.

Huh? As a matter of fact he doesn't have children and most likely won't because both he and his partner are both mid 50s. I was simply saying I'm at least happy he has one or two of those legal benfits the gay community regularly shouts about not having.

Edited December 21, 2013 by carlimac

[carlimac]

And in this particular scenario, what He would do?

Are we talking about your high school friend or your nephew? If we are talking about your nephew, what do you intent to accomplish by telling him what you really think?

WWJD? I don't know. I don't think He would congratulate though.

I was referring to my nephew. I'm frustrated with him because I think he just gets a charge out of going against the grain. I don't see his attitudes as being very good for his family. I'm sure I would just antagonize him if I stood up to him. But it appears no one else is.

[carlimac]

And in this particular scenario, what He would do?

Are we talking about your high school friend or your nephew? If we are talking about your nephew, what do you intent to accomplish by telling him what you really think?

WWJD? I don't know. I don't think He would congratulate though.

I was referring to my nephew. I'm frustrated with him because I think he just gets a charge out of going against the grain. I don't see his attitudes as being very good for his family. I'm sure I would just antagonize him if I stood up to him. But it appears no one else is.

[NeuroTypical]

You're supposed to love thy neighbor as thyself. It's one of the two great commandments. Not sure that trying to chastize the gay out of him, is how one goes about loving someone. But I've never been in the situation.

[carlimac]

You're supposed to love thy neighbor as thyself. It's one of the two great commandments. Not sure that trying to chastize the gay out of him, is how one goes about loving someone. But I've never been in the situation.

My nephew isn't gay. He is just liberal and likes to flaunt it. I wouldn't be chastizing anything out of him. I'd just be reminding him of covenants he made that he obviously has pretty loose convictions about.

I do appreciate so much about my gay friend. I've known him since 7th grade. He was loads of fun to be around in high school. We sang together in madrigals. He's basically a good hearted person. But I've seen him change over the years, and not for the better since he "came out".

So if I am commanded to love my gay friend as myself, wouldn't I be concerned for his eternal welfare as I would be for my own? Doesn't it make sense for me to feel upset with his choices that make a mockery of God's plan for His children and put his eternal welfare in jeopardy?

[beefche]

So someone help me out here. What should our reactions as stalwart believers of the gospel of Jesus Christ be to this kind of news? WWJD or say? Is it our responsibility to do what He would do or do we just follow Thumper's mother's advice. "If you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all." What does it really mean to take on the name of Christ in these situations? I also have a nephew ( temple married to a really sweet gal) who has always lived on the fringes- not the humblest of guys who was praising the judges decision. I'm even afraid to say anything to him. I'm embarrassed for him and the things he says on facebook. Don't know if he's temple worthy at this point. Do I just go along pretending everything is groovy when I see him at the family holiday get-together. Or do I take him aside and tell him what I really think.

I don't know. What do you say to your neighbors who are living together without marriage? What do you say to your friend who had a child out of wedlock? What do you say to that member who drinks coffee in his own home? What do you say to someone who is sinning but is sinning in a way that you can't see the sin?

Did Jesus actually seek out someone to call to repentance? Why do you feel you need to tell your nephew anything about this? I don't understand why you feel you have this responsibility/stewardship.

[Suzie]

WWJD? I don't know. I don't think He would congratulate though.

I was referring to my nephew. I'm frustrated with him because I think he just gets a charge out of going against the grain. I don't see his attitudes as being very good for his family. I'm sure I would just antagonize him if I stood up to him. But it appears no one else is.

Isn't he entitled to his opinion? (even though you disagree)

[carlimac]

I don't know. What do you say to your neighbors who are living together without marriage? What do you say to your friend who had a child out of wedlock? What do you say to that member who drinks coffee in his own home? What do you say to someone who is sinning but is sinning in a way that you can't see the sin?

Did Jesus actually seek out someone to call to repentance? Why do you feel you need to tell your nephew anything about this? I don't understand why you feel you have this responsibility/stewardship.

Ok, yes he's entitled to it. How about we focus more on mt main question of how to respond to gays getting married than on my nephew. I was just using him as an example of someone who is very e xtremely pro gay marriage despite being a church member, temple married himself. It just seems an attitude contrary to the gospel.

[beefche]

You posted that in your original post. I AM responding to the main question.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. You can be active in your community/state to help enact laws supporting your views of marriage. But, to confront someone individually? No, I do not think you should. What gives you the right to approach someone to tell them they are wrong?

[Suzie]

Ok, yes he's entitled to it. How about we focus more on mt main question of how to respond to gays getting married

How to respond if they tell me they are getting married? I assume the couple in question are close friends or relatives? I would respond like I usually do "Really?! I wish you the best!".

[Dravin]

WWJD? I don't know.

I don't recall Christ seeking out the pharisees. When they came upon him he certainly didn't avoid the issue, but the Sermon on the Mount wasn't delivered when he took a pharisee aside to call him out. Now, he does feel sadness about our poor choices (nothing special about sexual sin in that regard except possibly depth because it's so easy to get entangled in sexual sin and not get out of it). From your post though it sounds like you're frustrated at the situation and want to strike out at this guy in particular because he's a target you can get at, as opposed to the legal system. That's not what Christ would do.

Now how you are come across may not reflect the reality, but you do not come across are motivated by love and concern for his eternal welfare but frustration. At the very least that is what is coming out at the forefront.

I'm even afraid to say anything to him. I'm embarrassed for him and the things he says on facebook. Don't know if he's temple worthy at this point. Do I just go along pretending everything is groovy when I see him at the family holiday get-together. Or do I take him aside and tell him what I really think.

Two thoughts:

1) Would you be doing so inline with the principles of D&C 121:43? Are you being moved upon by the Holy Ghost, are you prepared to show forth an increase in love? Or are you motivated not by the Holy Ghost but because you're frustrated with him, with the situation, and you want to give him a piece of your mind? To put him in his place and make him stop saying things you disagree with?

2) Do you want him to take you aside at a holiday get-together and let you know that he thinks you're a backward, hateful, bigot contrary to gospel principles and that he thinks you aren't temple worthy?

Edited December 22, 2013 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

My nephew isn't gay. He is just liberal and likes to flaunt it. I wouldn't be chastizing anything out of him. I'd just be reminding him of covenants he made that he obviously has pretty loose convictions about.

Got it - sorry for the misunderstanding.

So if I am commanded to love my gay friend as myself, wouldn't I be concerned for his eternal welfare as I would be for my own? Doesn't it make sense for me to feel upset with his choices that make a mockery of God's plan for His children and put his eternal welfare in jeopardy?

Well, you're not talking about just quietly being concerned or feeling upset, now are you. You're asking for advice on how/whether to contend for the right things and against the wrong things with him. In my imperfect opinion, you can have a lot more influence and impact on people with whom you disagree, if you love them so much they can feel it.

I'm not really good at doing this myself, so can't advise you too much. What I do know, centers around on seeing things from the other side as best as I can, being able to restate their opinions to myself until they sound plausible and valid, worthy of respect.

[Wingnut]

If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all.

[carlimac]

If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all.

And that's where I'm at.

[carlimac]

You posted that in your original post. I AM responding to the main question.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. You can be active in your community/state to help enact laws supporting your views of marriage. But, to confront someone individually? No, I do not think you should. What gives you the right to approach someone to tell them they are wrong?

Sorry I mentioned my nephew. It was a distraction to the point I was trying to make. Just forget him, OK?

The point that was so obviously missed was this: Now that this gay marriage thing is happening in Utah (and I assume a fair amount of posters on this board are from Utah) how do we respond as the Savior would , or as He would want us to on the occasion that our personal gay or lesbian friends or family members are getting married? What do we say? Are we condoning the relationship ( not just the emotional one but the physical one that is expected when people get married) by congratulating them?

[carlimac]

Got it - sorry for the misunderstanding.

Well, you're not talking about just quietly being concerned or feeling upset, now are you. You're asking for advice on how/whether to contend for the right things and against the wrong things with him. In my imperfect opinion, you can have a lot more influence and impact on people with whom you disagree, if you love them so much they can feel it.

I'm not really good at doing this myself, so can't advise you too much. What I do know, centers around on seeing things from the other side as best as I can, being able to restate their opinions to myself until they sound plausible and valid, worthy of respect.

Again, this post wasn't really intended to be about me confronting my nephew. He was just an example of an enthusiastic supporter of gay marriage rights despite being a member of the church and of my ultra-conservative family. Alright now...goodbye carlimac's nephew from this conversation.

I would not confront my gay friend about his sinful lifestyle. He's a grown boy and can make his own decisions. Where, though, do we cross the line into condoning gay marriage if we congratulate them?

Take other things we've been taught against- Would we congratulate someone for winning really big in Las Vegas? Or do we congratulate someone for being in a relationship with their co-worker when they have committed adultery and abandoned their spouse and children? (This is another real life scenario that I faced recently).

Does the Lord want us to be happy for them if they are happy? Even if their happiness is derived from sin?

[beefche]

The point that was so obviously missed was this: Now that this gay marriage thing is happening in Utah (and I assume a fair amount of posters on this board are from Utah) how do we respond as the Savior would , or as He would want us to on the occasion that our personal gay or lesbian friends or family members are getting married? What do we say? Are we condoning the relationship ( not just the emotional one but the physical one that is expected when people get married) by congratulating them?

Here, let me try this AGAIN.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. You can be active in your community/state to help enact laws supporting your views of marriage. But, to confront someone individually? No, I do not think you should. What gives you the right to approach someone to tell them they are wrong?

[Suzie]

Take other things we've been taught against- Would we congratulate someone for winning really big in Las Vegas? Or do we congratulate someone for being in a relationship with their co-worker when they have committed adultery and abandoned their spouse and children? (This is another real life scenario that I faced recently).

Does the Lord want us to be happy for them if they are happy? Even if their happiness is derived from sin?

I don't know Carlimac, I would hope that if anyone has a problem in congratulating others for choices they don't share, they will just keep quiet.

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't claim to know all the answers, but . . .

If my hypothetical cousin--I'll call him, say, Ritt Momney--announces to me that he's figured out how to make his company's stock triple, and all he has to do is lay off half his workforce, and wouldn't I like to spend a week with him in the Cayman Islands to celebrate--

Do I have a similar obligation to remain silent? Or can I approach him and say "dude, I love you, but you know that's not right"?

If the latter--why is that different than the situation Carlimac faces?