Still_Small_Voice Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 A California couple who found a stash of buried gold coins valued at $10 million may not be so lucky after all. The coins may have been stolen from the United States Mint in 1900 and thus be the property of the government, according to a published report. The San Francisco Chronicle's website reported that a search of the Haithi Trust Digital Library provided by Northern California fishing guide Jack Trout, who is also a historian and collector of rare coins, turned up the news of the theft. The California couple, who have not been identified, spotted the edge of an old can on a path they had hiked many times before several months ago. Poking at the can was the first step in uncovering a buried treasure of rare coins estimated to be worth $10 million. "It was like finding a hot potato," the couple told coin expert Don Kagin from Kagin's, Inc. The couple hired the president of Kagin's, Inc. and Holabird-Kagin Americana, a western Americana dealer and auctioneer, to represent them. The coins are mostly uncirculated and in mint condition, and they add up in face value to $27,000. "Those two facts are a match of the gold heist in 1900 from the San Francisco Mint," the newspaper reported. Jack Trout told the paper that an 1866 Liberty $20 gold piece without the words "In God We Trust" was part of the buried stash, and the coin may fetch over $1 million at auction because it's so rare. "This was someone's private coin, created by the mint manager or someone with access to the inner workings of the Old Granite Lady (San Francisco Mint)," Trout told the newspaper. "It was likely created in revenge for the assassination of Lincoln the previous year (April 14, 1865). I don't believe that coin ever left The Mint until the robbery. For it to show up as part of the treasure find links it directly to that inside job at the turn of the century at the San Francisco Mint." Mint spokesman Adam Stump issued this statement when contacted today by ABC News: "We do not have any information linking the Saddle Ridge Hoard coins to any thefts at any United States Mint facility. Surviving agency records from the San Francisco Mint have been retired to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), under Record Group 104. Access to the records is under NARA's jurisdiction: http://www.archives.gov/." Last week, when news of the stash first broke, coin dealer Kagin spoke about the rarity of such a find. "Since 1981, people have been coming to us with one or two coins they find worth a few thousand dollars, but this is the first time we get someone with a whole cache of buried coins... It is a million to one chance, even harder than winning the lottery," Kagin told ABCNews.com. The couple is trying to remain anonymous after finding the five cans of coins last spring on their Tiburon property in northern California and conducted an interview with Kagin. "I never would have thought we would have found something like this. However, in a weird way I feel like I have been preparing my whole life for it," the couple said. "I saw an old can sticking out of the ground on a trail that we had walked almost every day for many, many years. I was looking down in the right spot and saw the side of the can. I bent over to scrape some moss off and noticed that it had both ends on it," they said. It was the first of five cans to be unearthed, each packed with gold coins. Read more and watch the story at: $10M Calif. Gold Coin Hoard Found in Yard May Have Been Stolen From Mint - ABC News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 What I would have done is either somehow get them out of the country and sell them oversea's (telling no one) or melting them down into bars and taking a substantial loss, though it would be untraceable to its origins and would draw no attention.No governments come knocking from robberies over 100 years old, something like that found, anyone and everyone will try and claim it!This couple will end up with nothing, because they talked, for shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_Small_Voice Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The bullion gold is only worth about $27,000. Melting them down would make them worth a lot less. It is a the rarity of the coins that makes coin collectors want them so much and it pushes up the price a lot higher. Too me the coins are only worth about $27,000. Still I would love to find a $27,000 treasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 This bums me out. I've been following this story and was so delighted with the couple's find. I was downright happy for them. I rather wish they would be allowed to claim the coins and do with them what they see fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Since this couple apparently lacks the ability to keep their darn mouths closed, perhaps they could manage to keep things to just two words."Prove it."The coins may have been stolen from the United States Mint in 1900 and thus be the property of the government, according to a published report. "Hey, we found three bubblegums and a pretty rock!""Those are mine. I lost them a while ago.""How do I know you're telling the truth?""Because I just published a report about how they're mine""Oh - ok then. Here you go."Color me skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The bullion gold is only worth about $27,000. Melting them down would make them worth a lot less. It is a the rarity of the coins that makes coin collectors want them so much and it pushes up the price a lot higher. Too me the coins are only worth about $27,000. Still I would love to find a $27,000 treasure.yeah but they're probably gonna get nothing, 27 000 dollars is better then the government showing up and saying "hey these were stolen in 1900, so we want them back, k thx bye"I am sure the government can prove its theirs, you don't not keep records about things worth a lot of money, nor do you just show up like that without proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Ooooooooooh. I hope they get to keep them!Hey legal peeps!What's the statute on robbery? Do they have any wiggle room? Or govt property found in a state park = hand them over open & shut? Reward? Sumthin? Annathin?Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Ooooooooooh. I hope they get to keep them!Hey legal peeps!What's the statute on robbery? Do they have any wiggle room? Or govt property found in a state park = hand them over open & shut? Reward? Sumthin? Annathin?QI agree......I would get legal help on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I am sure the government can prove its theirs, you don't not keep records about things worth a lot of money, nor do you just show up like that without proofIf it legally and provably belongs to the government (or anyone else), why on earth would you want to keep property away from its rightful owner?What's the statute on robbery? Do they have any wiggle room? Or govt property found in a state park = hand them over open & shut? Reward? Sumthin? Annathin?No idea. I imagine state laws might vary; but if you're dealing with the feds--I daresay they'll adopt the same worldview they do with anything else ("what's mine is mine, what's yours is . . . negotiable, but most likely mine"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Yup. Should have worked harder to keep this secret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 On another note, for those that know, I've been curious for a time on a matter...How do taxes work for found buried treasure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roseslipper Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 All I can say is WOW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 If it legally and provably belongs to the government (or anyone else), why on earth would you want to keep property away from its rightful owner?No idea. I imagine state laws might vary; but if you're dealing with the feds--I daresay they'll adopt the same worldview they do with anything else ("what's mine is mine, what's yours is . . . negotiable, but most likely mine").their rightful owners are long dead, a mint isn't a human beingbesides the people who run all that are rich and greedy enough-that would be my ticket to a somewhat easier life for awhile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Ooooooooooh. I hope they get to keep them!Hey legal peeps!What's the statute on robbery? Do they have any wiggle room? Or govt property found in a state park = hand them over open & shut? Reward? Sumthin? Annathin?QI was wondering the same thing when reading the article. Isn't there a statute of limitations on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) On another note, for those that know, I've been curious for a time on a matter...How do taxes work for found buried treasure?Same as any found "Treasure Trove". In Federal Law, it is added to Gross Income on the day its possession is undisputed to be of the finder/landowner and is subject to income tax. Like winning the lottery. Some states have special tax provisions for treasure troves (like gambling winnings) but mostly it gets added to income.It's interesting that the finder of the coins stated they're giving a part of it to charity. There's a limit to charitable deductions in Federal Income Tax... it might end up that they're giving part of it to charity and they're paying taxes for that money with the other part leaving them with nothing. Edited March 7, 2014 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Ooooooooooh. I hope they get to keep them!Hey legal peeps!What's the statute on robbery? Do they have any wiggle room? Or govt property found in a state park = hand them over open & shut? Reward? Sumthin? Annathin?QThere's a statute of limitations on when you can still pursue legal action to punish the robber. But, there is no statute of limitations to ownership. If you can prove it is yours - like you have a Title, etc. - it is yours forever regardless if you misplace it, it got stolen, etc. If said item is included in your estate, ownership goes with the inheritance if you paid the necessary inheritance taxes and such. If said item was insured and an insurance claim was made for it, then said item goes to the insurance company.With something being undistributed mint... uhm... not sure if the feds held legal ownership to it - I mean, money from a bank robbery are FDIC insured... if you dig one up in your backyard, it gets to be finders keepers, right? Or does it go to the Feds. Not sure about that. Edited March 7, 2014 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 their rightful owners are long dead, a mint isn't a human beingbesides the people who run all that are rich and greedy enough-that would be my ticket to a somewhat easier life for awhileI fear for our country if this degraded version of "rule of law" becomes (has become?) truly commonplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) I fear for our country if this degraded version of "rule of law" becomes (has become?) truly commonplace.I don't live in the USA, and I am greedy when it comes to anything tbh, I am the center of my universe, should I die it goes away, it is a savage world out there. Companies would work me to death, just like the government would take something they lost over 100 years ago, and I am the bad guy for thinking they deserve it back for nothing. Edited March 7, 2014 by Lakumi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_Small_Voice Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I don't think you are degraded Lakumi. I think the couple deserves all the money. It has been gone 114 years about and the United States mint did not miss it until suddenly they see a chance for profit.If they don't get the proceeds from the sale they at least deserve a $30,000 reward for finding the gold coins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_Small_Voice Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 I am posting an update on this story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_Small_Voice Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — A treasure trove of rare gold coins discovered by a California couple out walking their dog has gone on sale, with one coin selling for $15,000 on Tuesday. The coins date from 1847 to 1894 and have been valued at $11 million. Several coins were auctioned at the Old San Francisco Mint at 8:30 p.m. Tuesday, and one of them — an 1874 $20 double eagle that is usually worth $4,250 — sold for $15,000.Don Kagin, whose firm is handling the sale, says most of the remaining 1,400 coins had gone on sale on Amazon.com and Kagins.com after the auction.The couple, whom Kagin declined to identify, found them last year buried under the shadow of a tree on their rural Northern California property.Here are five things to know about the coins and their origin: Why are they so valuable?Experts say paper money was illegal in California until the 1870s, so it’s extremely rare to find any coins from before that period. Additionally, most of the coins are in mint condition, having been stashed away seemingly immediately after they were minted. They were valued by Don Kagin, a numismatist who is handling the sale and marketing of the coins. Some of 1,427 Gold-Rush era U.S. gold coins are displayed at Professional Coin Grading Service in Santa Ana, Calif., Tuesday, Feb. 25, 2014. A California couple out walking their dog on their property stumbled across the modern-day bonanza: $10 million in rare, mint-condition gold coins buried in the shadow of an old tree. Nearly all of the 1,427 coins, dating from 1847 to 1894, are in uncirculated, mint condition, said David Hall, co-founder of Professional Coin Grading Service, who recently authenticated them. Although the face value of the gold pieces only adds up to about $27,000, some of them are so rare that coin experts say they could fetch nearly $1 million apiece. (AP/Reed Saxon) Some of 1,427 Gold-Rush era United States gold coins are displayed at Professional Coin Grading Service in Santa Ana, California, Tuesday, February 25, 2014. A California couple out walking their dog on their property stumbled across the modern-day bonanza: $10 million in rare, mint-condition gold coins buried in the shadow of an old tree. Nearly all of the 1,427 coins, dating from 1847 to 1894, are in uncirculated, mint condition, said David Hall, co-founder of Professional Coin Grading Service, who recently authenticated them. (AP/Reed Saxon) Who found them?Kagin says the couple — a middle-aged husband and wife — does not want to be identified in part to avoid a gold rush on their rural Northern California property by modern-day prospectors. They discovered the coins in eight cans buried in the shadow of an old tree on the property. They plan to keep a few of the coins themselves and use the money from the rest to pay off bills and donate to local charities. Money from Tuesday’s auction will benefit the effort to turn the Old Mint into a museum. Where did the coins come from?Most of the coins were minted at the San Francisco Mint, according to Kagin. It’s not clear, however, who put them in the ground or how they were obtained, though theories have abounded. Kagin says people have linked the coins to stagecoach bandit Black Bart, outlaw Jesse James and a theft at the San Francisco Mint, but none of the theories has panned out.What is in the collection?The treasure consists of four $5 gold pieces, fifty $10 gold pieces, and 1,373 $20 double eagles. Among the coins that will be on display Tuesday is the crown jewel of the collection — an 1866-S No Motto $20 gold piece valued at more than $1 million. How does this discovery compare to other coin finds?Kagin calls this coin find the largest such discovery in U.S. history. One of the largest previous finds of gold coins was uncovered by construction workers in Jackson, Tennessee, in 1985 and valued at $1 million. More than 400,000 silver dollars were found in the home of a Reno, Nevada, man who died in 1974 and were later sold intact for $7.3 million. Gold coins and ingots said to be worth as much as $130 million were recovered in the 1980s from the wreck of the SS Central America. But historians knew roughly where that gold was because the ship went down off the coast of North Carolina during a hurricane in 1857. Most of the coins were minted at the San Francisco Mint, according to Kagin. It’s not clear, however, who put them in the ground or how they were obtained, though theories have abounded. Kagin says people have linked the coins to stagecoach bandit Black Bart, outlaw Jesse James and a theft at the San Francisco Mint, but none of the theories has panned out. What is in the collection?The treasure consists of four $5 gold pieces, fifty $10 gold pieces, and 1,373 $20 double eagles. Among the coins that will be on display Tuesday is the crown jewel of the collection — an 1866-S No Motto $20 gold piece valued at more than $1 million. How does this discovery compare to other coin finds?Kagin calls this coin find the largest such discovery in United States history. One of the largest previous finds of gold coins was uncovered by construction workers in Jackson, Tennessee, in 1985 and valued at $1 million. More than 400,000 silver dollars were found in the home of a Reno, Nevada, man who died in 1974 and were later sold intact for $7.3 million. Gold coins and ingots said to be worth as much as $130 million were recovered in the 1980s from the wreck of the SS Central America. But historians knew roughly where that gold was because the ship went down off the coast of North Carolina during a hurricane in 1857. See pictures here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/28/that-couple-who-found-a-treasure-trove-of-rare-gold-coins-while-walking-their-dog-just-got-a-major-payday/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 I'd keep it all, dress like a pirate and... well I'd be rich so it wouldn't matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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