Are tasers safe for law enforcement use

[Quin]

I like Canada's approach.

Tasers, beanbag rounds, gas, etc... Are described as "LESS Lethal".

Because ANY of the non-bullet options can be, and often are, LETHAL.

They're used, when used properly, in a situation that calls for lethal force.

Which means that there IS an immediate threat to life.

Less lethal options give the person a chance. Not a guarantee.

In America, we started describing things like mace & beanbag (or rock salt, whatever) as NON-lethal. Nope. Gas an asthmatic, and you've got a dead person. Beanbag round to anyone with conditions A-Z, or in the throat, etc. = a dead person. Flash bang an epileptic or seizure disorders A-Z, or, or, or ,or.

Bini, I hear what you're saying, I've worked in hospitals, too.

But I've also been in combat in urban areas.

And I've lived in gangland. (Where the MOST dangerous people you'll face are actually 10-12yos. Both in the US, and in countries that actively recruit that age group... Because they are VICIOUS, they don't hesitate, and they're completely unpredictable. They might shoot you, or push a random person -or friend or family member! someone they actually love- in front of a car to distract you before they shoot you. Cause and effect reeeeeally hasn't wired completely. They'll also blame you for their loved one being run over, and think the stranger just sat there waiting for it/obviously could have avoided getting hit, right in front of a bus. Some argue 7-14, and I wouldn't necessarily argue, but in my experience... I'd rather face a 7yo with an AK -Jamaica, 1998-, than a 10yo with a bike chain -Northern Afrika 1999... And I'll take EITHER of those in a clinic setting over on the street.).

The difference between restraining an individual in a hospital system.... With walls & locking doors, minimal bystanders, limited weapons available, codes to call/backup en force readily available, contained risk to others (also, not unsubstantially, with the psychological advantage all on tthe restrainers side, as well as the physical) ... is night and day from restraining a person on the street.

My son is 11.

He's a good kid.

But I'll tell you something... I hands down, flat out, prefer police to use ANY less lethal option on him any time their other option is to shoot him. Even if they gassed him, which would kill him, because at least they were TRYING to give him a chance.

Q

[mirkwood]

Yes they are safe. They have reduced both officer and suspect injuries.

Would I tase a kid? Depends on the circumstances. I would not be inclined to tase a 7 year old, or even an 11 year old, but they could do something to change that picture. Hard to say.

Same with a pregnant woman. I'd be disinclined, but they could do something to change that.

I fought a 17 heard old football player once. He wore me and my partner out...literally, there was nothing left with open handed techniques. So I tased him. Twice. It did not have the desired effect, so I pepper sprayed him. That worked.

I went on a suicidal male with a knife. He turned towards us with a knife. He got tased multiple times. He did not get shot because of the tasing.

Another guy lunged for a knife during a welfare check. He got tased multiple times. Without the taser he got shot instead.

Three of us and three or four firefighters brawled with a coke head. He tried to grab my gun during the fight. The use of the taser got him in handcuffs.

Four of us were breaking up a drunken party. My partner and I were in the backyard dealing with about 20 drunks. One decided he needed to go to jail and got handcuffed. The other 19 drunks didn't like that and started advancing on us with mayhem in mind. My taser pointed at them scared them into backing away and gave us time to get more help on scene.

My partner arrived on a domestic with a knife. Husband is in the driveway threatening his wife with a butcher knife. My partner snuck up behind him and tased him before he even knew he was there. Without a taser, that likely becomes a shooting instead.

A guy answers the door with a knife in his hand. Taser to the chest and we did not have to shoot him as he threatened us.

The list goes on and on.

Edited March 12, 2014 by mirkwood

[Guest]

Well, seeing a taser, is a preferable method, we might as well as parents become trained with them, and when our children begin throwing tantrums, just taser them instead. Much easier than restraining your 11 year-old, and some 11 year-olds need to be restrained.

anatess, since your son is taller and stronger than you already...you should be the first parent to buy one.

I don't need one. The look I give them is more powerful than a taser. It can stop tantrums in a crowded room from 25 feet away... tasers can't do that.

But seriously... I don't even know how "the look" got to be effective. I never planned it or anything. It's just that when my kids do things I don't want them to do, I automatically tense up and look at them and then do the correcting. And somehow, after years and years, when I tense up, the kids freeze waiting for the correction. And after years and years, they just freeze and self-correct. Now, my 12 year old freezes and says, "What?". So, let's see how much longer "the look" stays effective.

Edited March 12, 2014 by anatess

[prisonchaplain]

Anatess, if you could train LEO in "the look" you might single-handedly put the taser issue to rest.

[The Folk Prophet]

Wait! But is "the look" safe for law enforcement?

[prisonchaplain]

Wait! But is "the look" safe for law enforcement?

Good point. :::sigh::: Never mind!

[Blackmarch]

In another thread this topic came up. There were some strong opinions offered, so I figured the issues was worthy of its own thread. We have a few posters on the site who have first hand experience--either deploying the device, or having been subject to it. I have neither. As with many difficult matters in life, I prefer to learn through the experiences of others. So, below are two articles--one suggesting that tasers are safe, the other that they are not.

PRO: Tasers Used By Law Enforcement Are Safe, Review Suggests -- ScienceDaily

CON: Tasers deadly, should be banned | Philadelphia Independent Media Center

Yes they are safer. By far. Yes your going to give maybe 1 in 1000 people a heart attack with them, but its better than wounding a hostile with a gun to incapacitate them. In general officers have t get tased as part of the training ( maced as well if i recall right). They also do workshops where civilians can get a taste of what cops have to go thru (and usually getting tased is an option at those)... Lets see that with a gun maybe?

Sorry but the folks calling for their banishment without offering an equal or better cost effective non lethal way to subdue hostiles are ignorant (saying this very very mildly).

For cops abusing their authority and or not using good judgement, id rather have a taser in their hands rather than a pistol. Just my 2 cents.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Blackmarch

[OldPort]

I wanted to weigh in on this and share a few experiences from a LEO background.

My partner and I found a young 15 year old man who was a runaway and had pick up orders from a judge. The young man was about 5'6" and 130. He actively resisted us (was not overtly aggressive in trying to strike/injure us) but during the course of this he caused lot's of damage to the property and himself. He was also very sweaty/slippery. Yes we could have used a number of tools on him and ended the scenario abruptly, but all those tools have pros and cons. After my partner and I decided tasing him would have been a safer option as he likely would have not injured himself in the process.

I have also had tasers fail frequently. The probes don't go through thick, layered clothing well. When making what could be a life or death decision for protecting myself or partner I would not trust a taser in many scenarios.

[NeuroTypical]

From my local police blotter in Colorado Springs:

Incident: Date March 26, 2014 8:47:00 PM

Location: 600 block of Tia Juana Street

On Wednesday, 03-26-2014, at approximately 8:47PM, Sand Creek Division and Gold Hill Division officers responded to the 600 block of Tia Juana Street to investigate a reported domestic dispute involving a knife.

Upon arrival, officers found a vehicle that had been intentionally set on fire and was actively burning. The vehicle was occupied by an adult male. Officers set up containment on the vehicle and repeatedly issued verbal commands for the male to exit the vehicle; however, he refused.

The male eventually exited the vehicle with a large machete in his hands, and he initially refused officers' commands to drop the machete. A less-lethal impact weapon was deployed and the male dropped the machete. The male was then taken into custody without incident.

Further investigation determined that prior to the standoff with officers, the male went to a residence in the 600 block of Tia Juana Street and threatened the occupants with the machete.

The male was booked on felony criminal charges related to this incident.

Not sure if "less-lethal impact weapon" was tasers, or a shotgun with beanbag rounds, or what. But I do know that whatever they used, was most likely better than clubbing the guy with their nightsticks or shooting him. Glad those officers had those less lethal tools at their disposal.

Isn't everyone?

[Drpepper]

Lady here recently was shot in the eye and was blinded by a taser. Didn't work out too good for her. However police have to protect themselves somehow.