re: Godly traits

[prisonchaplain]

What trait is it that causes you to respect, trust, and admire someone's spiritual walk?

[SpiritDragon]

I think I may value humility most of all.

That's why I think I should get an award for my extensive development of this attribute.

In all seriousness, I do really appreciate humility as I think it shows great inner strength.

[Quin]

What trait is it that causes you to respect, trust, and admire someone's spiritual walk?

There isn't one.

There are lots. And they're all different.

I realize, though, as I'm thinking about those traits... That I'm essentially describing personalities. And that the same traits that cause me to MIS-trust, not respect, (antonym for admire) someone's spiritual walk is what makes me feel that way about them as a person.

Which is some serious food for thought.

Q

[Syme]

I think I may value humility most of all.

I agree with this and Quin's post.

I think everyone has strengths and weaknesses in "godly traits" - some people are all about courage and need to learn patience, while others are the exact opposite.

But if Pride is the root of all sin, then Humility must be the root of all virtue.

[Palerider]

I will say Charity.....the Pure Love of Christ

[Anddenex]

I am with SpiritDragon and Palerider. The two traits that determine my trust and respect is a person's spiritual walk are charity, humility, and I would add forgiving nature.

On my mission, I had many wonderful experiences and not so many wonderful experiences bird dogging. One day, I haven't forgotten, and had a profound influence upon my soul. We proselyted into a wonderful Methodist preachers home. This elderly couple, retired he was, noticed us coming and actually began baking a cake and had a glass of ice water ready for us when we knocked on their door. When they opened the door the couple said, "Although young men we are not interested in your message, we admire your dedication please come in." They provided us with the ice water and asked if we would like a piece of cake they had just made. There humility, charity, and respect continues to impact my soul today.

On the other hand, we knocked into another ministers door. The woman that answered wouldn't invite us in, didn't admire anything about us, and then said how much he hated the Mormons, hated us so much that she couldn't even say, "God speed." This was the exact same area.

The first experience was a couple who had come to understand, via application, the scripture by this ye shall know if ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. The second knew the scripture by heart, but could not apply it.

I have noticed this is the same for members of the Church. Some of us walk with stiff necks like the second minister, while others walk in humility, faith, love, charity, and respect.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Anddenex

[prisonchaplain]

Charity and humility are powerful. I also admire unassuming confidence. It's easier to be calm, polite, and patient when I know what I am doing or talking about.

[Quin]

One of the traits I click with the most is just that, PC;

When a person knows what they're talking about to a degree that they can use their own voice... Instead of either the sing-song-dreamy voice people use when they're repeating something they've heard but don't fully grok, nor the abrasiveness of those trying to force their opinion on others.

Laterally, also when a person is in their own voice, and says they haven't a clue (or any other degree of partial understanding) rather than parroting or picking a fight.

Either knowing what you're talking about, or knowing your own limitations (and not thing to cover them up) are surprisingly rare things. I like the honesty in both.

Q

[kaydell]

I appreciate kind and compassionate people. People who don't condemn me if they don't understand me.

if Pride is the root of all sin, then Humility must be the root of all virtue.

I like the above quote and I would like to add the following that I learned in Sunday School"

The ultimate in humility is to know that all that you have, even all that you are, is because of blessings from your Heavenly Father.

[Syme]

I like the above quote and I would like to add the following that I learned in Sunday School

Cool, I said something quotable! Go for it! :)

[carlimac]

I would say I admire those who love all people unconditionally. Except for a very few rare cases, my mother was one. She had the lonely, weary and outcast flocking to her because of her ability to love them.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Interesting thing about charity and humility (my top two choices also)--is that they really can't be separated, IMO. If a person has one, they will have the other. I mean, can you imagine a a person who is truly full of charity, but also prideful? I don't think it is possible. Or to be truly humble and not be charitable?

I never really thought about it until now, but working on either one would help you increase in the other--it's inevitable. At least that is how it appears to me. Interesting . . .

[Traveler]

It has been my experience that for every “good” thing there is a counterfeit of it. When we start down the path of analyzing the traits and attributes of G-d we must be most careful. I believe this so because as wonderful as we may think a trait or attribute – it is my understanding, that such attributes and traits are only genuine when made complete by being reborn of the spirit (converted to Christ and the gospel of Christ). I am not as expert as I wish I were or as I ought to be – but generally I tend to “pull back” from those that feel the need to tell me that they are a believer in Christ – as though I would not otherwise realize they are different from the world without them telling me so.

It has also been my experience that of all good things that can be counterfeited that it is the spiritual things presented in the world that are most likely pretended. I have assumed that because empirical things can be checked that such is not an easy target to counterfeit. Therefore, because of my own weakness I often turn first to study out in my mind and heart if a person portraying divine attributes has respect for empirical truths. I realize that such a method is not without flaw but I have yet to have found an exception to someone having genuine divine attributes and traits that do not respect empirical truths as well. If they respect empirical truths then I must rely completely of divine assistance to guide me. This is so difficult for me because I know that I am spiritually flawed and vulnerable to counterfeit.

I would like to brag about my abilities to identify divine attributes and traits – but I cannot. I have attempted to express my understanding – and have ticked off several posters here – for example by suggesting that a genuine spiritual person ought to be concerned with their physical health and well being as well.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

It has been my experience that for every “good” thing there is a counterfeit of it. When we start down the path of analyzing the traits and attributes of G-d we must be most careful. I believe this so because as wonderful as we may think a trait or attribute – it is my understanding, that such attributes and traits are only genuine when made complete by being reborn of the spirit (converted to Christ and the gospel of Christ).

Of course, this is true in a pure sense. However, I am careful to tell folk that I make no claim to being a better/kinder/more loving/humbler person than someone else who is not a Believer. Instead I say, "You think I struggle now? You should have seen me before!" We are all broken vessels, being remade in Christ's image. Some folks seem to have developed less broken than others. They may be "better" than me in most ways--even without faith in Jesus. My encouragement to them is that they will find themselves progressing and becoming even that much better, should they embrace faith in Christ.

There have been several strings here in which we admire good traits in other religions, or post about someone of another faith whom we admire. I'm not so sure that what we admire is "counterfeit." Perhaps it is indeed incomplete. Then again, even the redeemed are incomplete, this side of glory.

[Seminarysnoozer]

What trait is it that causes you to respect, trust, and admire someone's spiritual walk?

One of the most important to me is knowing that God's glory is bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. In other words, He takes glory and value in our success. I believe true happiness is when one can find joy in someone else' achievement. This is taught to us in that we depend on a Savior, we glory in His achievement.

The world tends to tear people down for their achievement. For example, we tax people at a higher rate the more money they make. People of the world find joy in the failure of others, this is what our daily news has turned into. Neighbors tend to feel jealous if a person buys a new car or builds an addition to their home instead of being happy for their achievement and success.

If we could all develop that trait of finding joy in the success of others this world would be a better place. I am glad our religion gives us opportunity to serve others and in the process we feel joy in their success. I was in the young women's program for 8 years and every year I see those that I had the opportunity to serve start to become young adults and it gives me great pleasure to know that they have done well. In fast and testimony meeting, I love to hear the testimony of those that express their joy in someone else success, I know they are truly walking that charitable Christ-like path. President Monson's talks tend to highlight a joyful experience centered around someone else's achievement.

[Traveler]

Of course, this is true in a pure sense. However, I am careful to tell folk that I make no claim to being a better/kinder/more loving/humbler person than someone else who is not a Believer. Instead I say, "You think I struggle now? You should have seen me before!" We are all broken vessels, being remade in Christ's image. Some folks seem to have developed less broken than others. They may be "better" than me in most ways--even without faith in Jesus. My encouragement to them is that they will find themselves progressing and becoming even that much better, should they embrace faith in Christ.

There have been several strings here in which we admire good traits in other religions, or post about someone of another faith whom we admire. I'm not so sure that what we admire is "counterfeit." Perhaps it is indeed incomplete. Then again, even the redeemed are incomplete, this side of glory.

I hope I do not offend you - I hope you know me better. But your thinking has always been interesting to me and so I try to understand it better. For this reason I try to look beyond the standard (Sunday School) answers and into the deeper thoughts.

If the understanding of Christ and belief in him does not make someone a "better/kinder/more loving/humbler person than someone else who is not a Believer" -- Why would belief be important - Should not we seek to know what it is that we missed on our way to becoming a believer? I believe there is another possibility - just seeing what your thinking is.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I hope I do not offend you - I hope you know me better. But your thinking has always been interesting to me and so I try to understand it better. For this reason I try to look beyond the standard (Sunday School) answers and into the deeper thoughts.

No worries! It's the person who decides for themselves what I mean, and that does not ask clarifying questions, who worries me.

If the understanding of Christ and belief in him does not make someone a "better/kinder/more loving/humbler person than someone else who is not a Believer" -- Why would belief be important - Should not we seek to know what it is that we missed on our way to becoming a believer? I believe there is another possibility - just seeing what your thinking is.

The Traveler

Faith may not make me better than you. However, it certainly makes me better than I was. If it did not I'd be forced to agree with you--my faith is somehow off-kilter, and not working.

On the other hand, if you start off as an A- type person. You grew up well, was trained under sound "family education," experienced the blessing of a solid formal education, and, through simple wisdom and a desire to do well and good, you attained a large measure of success in your life, then you'd be a tough act to catch up with.

Now imagine that I started life in much more challenging circumstances. Bad schools, ignorant or unthinking guardians, and a personal drive for immediate gratification--without regard for others. Perhaps I'd be the D- or F+ person. I come to a strong knowledge of the gospel, and I make tremendous progress. However, I still fight my selfish nature, my impatience, my internal sense that I have many things coming to me, and after a few years, I become a C+/B- person.

How do we measure the value of faith? Put in numbers, the first person might be at a 93%. I go from 58 to 78%. Since I'm still 15 points lower, do we really say that my faith was useless and deficient?

Edited March 17, 2014 by prisonchaplain

[Traveler]

No worries! It's the person who decides for themselves what I mean, and that does not ask clarifying questions, who worries me.

Faith may not make me better than you. However, it certainly makes me better than I was. If it did not I'd be forced to agree with you--my faith is somehow off-kilter, and not working.

On the other hand, if you start off as an A- type person. You grew up well, was trained under sound "family education," experienced the blessing of a solid formal education, and, through simple wisdom and a desire to do well and good, you attained a large measure of success in your life, then you'd be a tough act to catch up with.

Now imagine that I started life in much more challenging circumstances. Bad schools, ignorant or unthinking guardians, and a personal drive for immediate gratification--without regard for others. Perhaps I'd be the D- or F+ person. I come to a strong knowledge of the gospel, and I make tremendous progress. However, I still fight my selfish nature, my impatience, my internal sense that I have many things coming to me, and after a few years, I become a C+/B- person.

How do we measure the value of faith? Put in numbers, the first person might be at a 93%. I go from 58 to 78%. Since I'm still 15 points lower, do we really say that my faith was useless and deficient?

It is not so much that I disagree or that I fault your thinking in these matters but I do see things differently. Part from our LDS 13th Article of Faith (LDS scripture)

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Like you, I believe that others are inspired - many are more inspired about a great many things more than I am. Thus anyone that understands any truth more than me should be my teacher and I should learn from them.

Along these lines I also desire to be joined with those that have divine wisdom that is guiding them - both as individuals and as disciples joined together in a covenant of truth to form a society worthy of many more things than that which can be measured in this life.

It is hard to express but it is not about getting to heaven or obtaining blessings or even my salvation. It is about giving something back and not so much as to attempt settle any score or going out with some semblance of glory or being told well done. It is just that so much have been given that it is just me trying to say thanks. And if the L-rd shows me a better way - I owe it to him and all others that have gone before - to follow the better way than my way and if possible make it more accessible or more obvious to find for someone else.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I agree that for believers, hell is no longer a threat, and heaven is no longer a question mark. So, I should be about the Father's business. To do so effectively, I must daily seek an infilling of his Spirit, so I may live a life of love, joy peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, longsuffering, etc. Why? The non-believer may mock my church, my doctrine, and their perceptions of my religion. They cannot oppose my character--because there is no law against Spirit-filled living!

[Irenaeus]

I agree that for believers, hell is no longer a threat, and heaven is no longer a question mark.

I'm going to go all Catholic here, and argue that heaven still can very much be a question mark. A person who believes can still succumb to temptation, and many stripes of Christian believe that a pattern of sin can endanger a person's salvation. When contemplating my salvation or that of others, I personally partial to taking the position that we all deserve hell, and that it's for God to decide which I'll get.

Back to the question at had. As far as theological virtues goes, I'm reminded of Paul's discourse on the three theological virtues in first Corinthians:

"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. (1 Cor 13:13 KJV)."

As such, I'm inclined to favor charity. It's a tough call between it and humility, since pride has always occupied a special place amongst the cardinal sins. Just the same, John the Evangelist was keen to point out the fact that God is love, which gives love a certain degree of Godliness. Besides, when I think about it, I'd rather be around an overly prideful person who loved everybody than a extremely humble person who hates everybody. The former would probably be nice if a bit stubborn, while the latter would probably be mopey and all-around unpleasant

[prisonchaplain]

I'm going to go all Catholic here, and argue that heaven still can very much be a question mark. A person who believes can still succumb to temptation, and many stripes of Christian believe that a pattern of sin can endanger a person's salvation. When contemplating my salvation or that of others, I personally partial to taking the position that we all deserve hell, and that it's for God to decide which I'll get.

Ironically my church is one of those stripes. We do believe a person can "fall away" or "lose their salvation." On the other hand, it's hard to do. The Holy Spirit woos us, and we can pray for daily protection. So, while I know that I must "work out my salvation daily," I do not walk in fear of losing it. Rather, my desire is to daily be so full of the Spirit that the traits we are discussing shine, and people see Jesus in me. So...I'm tracking with you, but choose to focus on the Kingdom and the work God has set before me.

[Traveler]

I'm going to go all Catholic here, and argue that heaven still can very much be a question mark. A person who believes can still succumb to temptation, and many stripes of Christian believe that a pattern of sin can endanger a person's salvation. When contemplating my salvation or that of others, I personally partial to taking the position that we all deserve hell, and that it's for God to decide which I'll get.

Back to the question at had. As far as theological virtues goes, I'm reminded of Paul's discourse on the three theological virtues in first Corinthians:

"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. (1 Cor 13:13 KJV)."

As such, I'm inclined to favor charity. It's a tough call between it and humility, since pride has always occupied a special place amongst the cardinal sins. Just the same, John the Evangelist was keen to point out the fact that God is love, which gives love a certain degree of Godliness. Besides, when I think about it, I'd rather be around an overly prideful person who loved everybody than a extremely humble person who hates everybody. The former would probably be nice if a bit stubborn, while the latter would probably be mopey and all-around unpleasant

I see things very differently - I do not think the choice of heaven or hell is G-d's. If it was, I believe we would all end up in heaven. I do not believe G-d wants anyone to end up in hell. From all that I understand of G-d; I do not believe that any one will seek mercy and G-d will laugh at them for doing so and condemn them anyway.

I believe that the only souls that G-d will allow in hell are those that so desire to be there, more than anywhere else and thus refuse any suggestion or encouragement by G-d (or anyone else for that matter) to consider heaven as even an option for them. Obviously I am a much different stripe than most because I believe that a soul must work very hard to earn and qualify for any other place other than that place that G-d himself resides. I believe it difficult to turn down G-d but I believe some are so determined that they will figure out a way to do it. I believe the gospel really is good news.

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

I see things very differently - I do not think the choice of heaven or hell is G-d's. If it was, I believe we would all end up in heaven. I do not believe G-d wants anyone to end up in hell. From all that I understand of G-d; I do not believe that any one will seek mercy and G-d will laugh at them for doing so and condemn them anyway.

I believe that the only souls that G-d will allow in hell are those that so desire to be there, more than anywhere else and thus refuse any suggestion or encouragement by G-d (or anyone else for that matter) to consider heaven as even an option for them. Obviously I am a much different stripe than most because I believe that a soul must work very hard to earn and qualify for any other place other than that place that G-d himself resides. I believe it difficult to turn down G-d but I believe some are so determined that they will figure out a way to do it. I believe the gospel really is good news.

The Traveler

Are you taking about those that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, as in Matthew 12?