Sin

[dahlia]

One frequently reads/hears that the Prophet or the Church leadership has said it is better not to do something. Ex: Better not to get tattoos, better not to get more than 1 ear piercing.

 

My question: Is doing those things a sin? When does behavior that is disapproved of become sinful, if ever? Telling me something is 'wrong' is not the same as telling me it is sinful. Maybe it's just my interpretation, I dunno.

 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

Sin is anything that isn't perfect. Being perfect is a commandment. Anything that isn't perfect is breaking a commandment. That defines sin. Of course knowledge is required, as one cannot be accountable without it. But to say that doing something one knows to be wrong is not sin is incorrect.

[omegaseamaster75]

One frequently reads/hears that the Prophet or the Church leadership has said it is better not to do something. Ex: Better not to get tattoos, better not to get more than 1 ear piercing.

 

My question: Is doing those things a sin?

Nope not sin

[The Folk Prophet]

Nope not sin

 

Nonsense. :)

[dahlia]

That's what I get for asking a question. 

[omegaseamaster75]

Nonsense. :)

I think it's not a sin to have more than one piercing or tattoos.....none of those things can keep you from being a worthy temple recommend holding member....prove me wrong

[Sunday21]

James4:17 to sin is to fail to act righteously when you know you are doing wrong. Sin makes it more difficult for the Holy Ghost to communicate with you and hurts Heavenly Father. There was a time when a prophet Kimball failed to take the sacrament. He explained that his mind wandered during the sacrament prayer. Little things are sins and should be taken seriously because they distance you from God. Do you need to confess taking a post it note from work to the Bishop? No but you should stop taking post its. Do minor sins make you a bad person? No because we all sin. Thinking uncharitable thoughts. Cutting people off in traffic. When we notice a sin, we should repent and stop or at least with traffic offences, cut down!

[Sunday21]

One frequently reads/hears that the Prophet or the Church leadership has said it is better not to do something. Ex: Better not to get tattoos, better not to get more than 1 ear piercing.

My question: Is doing those things a sin? When does behavior that is disapproved of become sinful, if ever? Telling me something is 'wrong' is not the same as telling me it is sinful. Maybe it's just my interpretation, I dunno.

Are you perhaps a former catholic? Are you thinking about different levels of sin: venial, mortal?

[Traveler]

One frequently reads/hears that the Prophet or the Church leadership has said it is better not to do something. Ex: Better not to get tattoos, better not to get more than 1 ear piercing.

 

My question: Is doing those things a sin? When does behavior that is disapproved of become sinful, if ever? Telling me something is 'wrong' is not the same as telling me it is sinful. Maybe it's just my interpretation, I dunno.

Perhaps someone will find my post controversial - in part it is intended to be so - that we can think about what we are doing.  The truth of the matter is that it is not so much what we do but the reason we do it.  All to often the "popular thing" is nothing more than a short cut to the sin of pride.  It does not have to be - but rarely does such thinking and efforts take us anywhere else.  What is popular can easily be excused because what is popular in one place and time may not be popular in other places and time or on popular in a larger social scale.  In other words - being unpopular in certain circles can be popular in other.  But popularity does not have to be associated with pride - it is just difficult to keep the two apart.

 

I would also make a point about pride.  It is not really that there are two kinds of pride but sometimes there can be a pride arise in opposition to other pride or what we think is pride in others.  It is the exclusiveness that "we are not like them" attitude of pride that is often prevalent in whatever circles of societies divided by strata of social structure.   It can be a fine line of pride that distinguishes individuality from those that are merely showing off.   The trick is being an individual part of the divine whole.  I call it a trick, not because it is so difficult to understand or do but because there is such a temptation  in being an individual that we focus on ourselves rather than on serving others.  And sometimes our example is a service or disservice to others.

[mdfxdb]

Someone who is contemplating getting a tattoo, or an extra piercing needs a fuller understanding of their bodies as temples.  The prophets have counseled that we not do these things because they understand the detrimental effect it can have on our self-image (in the long run),the detrimental effect it can have on other peoples image of us (short and long run), as well as the temptations, and people it attracts us to and people who are attracted to us. 

 

Getting a tattoo is not necessarily wrong, in fact you can still get a temple recommend. This doesn't make it correct behavior. 

[The Folk Prophet]

I think it's not a sin to have more than one piercing or tattoos.....none of those things can keep you from being a worthy temple recommend holding member....prove me wrong

 

Clearly we can be temple worthy and still sin, or none of us would be temple worthy, for none of us is without sin. The idea that temple worthiness is the criteria whereby we judge sin is silly and has long been perpetuated as a means of false justification for behaviors that we well know better than.

 

We know better!

 

Anything that is less than perfect is a sin (see my first post).

 

Anything that is less than what Christ would have us be is sin. What would Christ have us be? Like Him. Perfect. Would Christ have tatoos and multiple piercings? Clearly the answer to that can't be "proven". But it seems fairly obvious, especially considering that His prophet ("whether by my voice of the voice of my servants it is the same") said not to.

 

Prove me wrong.  

[The Folk Prophet]

Getting a tattoo is not necessarily wrong...       ...doesn't make it correct behavior. 

You are contradicting yourself. It's either wrong (incorrect behavior) or right (correct behavior).

[mdfxdb]

Not contradicting, someone who gets a tattoo has not necessarily sinned.  That doesn't mean I think they did the right thing.  By the standard held on these forums no one is temple worthy, let alone someone with a tattoo.......

[Guest]

I just saw the movie The Croods again...

 

For the Croods living in the cave... different things are sins.  For the guy living oustide of the cave chasing the light... different things are sins.

 

So... is it a sin?  If you're not choosing the right, then it's a sin.  There's no if's and's or but's about it.  Of course, it requires that you know what is right in the first place, so you can choose it.  So, a military guy who got a tattoo so he can be identified if his body ever gets dug up without his dogtags... who never heard of the word Mormon... then no, it's not a sin.  The guy who got baptized and sustained the Prophet who adviced not to get a tattoo getting a tattoo anyway because he thinks the Prophet is just an old fuddy duddy who doesn't know fashion?  Sin.  No doubt about it.

[The Folk Prophet]

Not contradicting, someone who gets a tattoo has not necessarily sinned.  That doesn't mean I think they did the right thing.  By the standard held on these forums no one is temple worthy, let alone someone with a tattoo.......

 

Don't be melodramatic. The temple standards are not the standards that determine sin. The temple standards determine temple worthiness. But we ALL sin. Everyone of us. Most small sins have no bearing on temple worthiness. That does not mean they are not sins.

 

I see what you're saying though on the contradiction thing. Someone who gets a tattoo has not necessarily sinned - true. That's because for sin to be sin we must knowingly do other than Christ would have us do. If someone doesn't know better, they cannot sin. But we, in the church, know better because we have been told. To ignore the prophet and go ahead with something that you know better than is, indeed, a sin. Having a tattoo is not a sin. Getting one when you know better is.

[mdfxdb]

Gordon Hinckley on tattoo's and piercings: "I promise you that the time will come, if you have tattoos, that you will regret your actions.  They cannot be washed off.  They are permanent.  Only by an expensive and painful process can they be removed.  If you are tattooed, then probably for the remainder of your life you will carry it with you.  I believe the time will come when it will be an embarrassment to you.  Avoid it.  We, as your Brethren who love you, plead with you not to become so disrespectful of the body which the Lord has given you.

 

May I mention earrings and rings placed in other parts of the body.  These are not manly.  They are not attractive.  You young men look better without them, and I believe you will feel better without them.  As for the young women, you do not need to drape rings up and down your ears.  One modest pair of earrings is sufficient."

 

This is a Prophets talk given to young single adults in the year 2000.  Based off of his advice I would not say someone should get a tattoo or extra piercing.  I would not say they have sinned either.  Something that is not a sin can still carry consequences for us throughout this life. 

 

[Guest]

Sigh.

 

Another thread where people have different definitions of what "SIN" means.

 

C'mon people... REALLY?

[The Folk Prophet]

This is a Prophets talk given to young single adults in the year 2000.  Based off of his advice I would not say someone should get a tattoo or extra piercing.  I would not say they have sinned either.  Something that is not a sin can still carry consequences for us throughout this life. 

 

You have redefined what sin means to you. Doing so renders the discussion counterproductive. You are certainly free to think sin is whatever you define it to be. That does not change what it is and what it is not. I presume you just don't like the word because it's too harsh or something. But it is what it is. Sin is anything that is not perfect. Even the little things that aren't that big of a deal. If you believe that because they're not that big of a deal then they don't qualify as sins then we're at a impasse. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Sigh.

 

Another thread where people have different definitions of what "SIN" means.

 

C'mon people... REALLY?

 

Thanks. Very helpful. 

 

Here is an article on Sins and Mistakes by Dallin H. Oaks. It details out, fairly well, I think, what makes the difference between error (foolishness) and sin (wrong action when you know better).

 

Clearly getting a tattoo/piercings could easily fall, for some, into the foolishness category, and very clearly into the sin category for others.

[Anddenex]

You are contradicting yourself. It's either wrong (incorrect behavior) or right (correct behavior).

 

The Folk Prophet appears to be a "Syth", for they only deal in absolutes! 

 

The question, Master or patawan? hmmmm, either way, we need to cut you down.

[Guest]

The Folk Prophet appears to be a "Syth", for they only deal in absolutes! 

 

The question, Master or patawan? hmmmm, either way, we need to cut you down.

 

You can't cut him down until you learn to spell Sith.

 

[The Folk Prophet]

The Folk Prophet appears to be a "Syth", for they only deal in absolutes! 

 

The question, Master or patawan? hmmmm, either way, we need to cut you down.

 

That is misreading my response. I am not saying there is no other behavior but right or wrong. I'm saying that incorrect behavior and wrong behavior amount to the same thing. I'm saying that incorrect = wrong.

 

It has nothing to do with whether there are shades of gray or not.

 

Regardless, mdfxdb clarified and I accepted his clarification as valid.

 

Speaking of "Sith" and the conversation surrounding "absolutes" -- and as a prime example of another way Star War went from being awesome to lame:

 

Anakin Skywalker: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

 

compare to:

 

Jesus Christ: He that is not with me is against me.

 

So....by George Lucas logic, Jesus was a Sith.   

[Anddenex]

 

That is misreading my response.

 

 

No, I was having fun with your response, wasn't misreading it...I agreed with the response.  My response was solely meant for some light humor.  :)

[The Folk Prophet]

No, I was having fun with your response, wasn't misreading it...I agreed with the response.  My response was solely meant for some light humor.  :)

 

No, I understood...I think. Sorry if my response sounded like I was just debating. I was debating...but not super seriously...mostly meaning to continue with the light humor by pointing out what shall now and henceforth forever be referred to as Lucas' folly *.

 

*Edit: In the spirit of debate, and to show I'm an equal opportunity offender, I contend that I am wrong. Lucas' folly is clearly The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

[Seminarysnoozer]

One frequently reads/hears that the Prophet or the Church leadership has said it is better not to do something. Ex: Better not to get tattoos, better not to get more than 1 ear piercing.

 

My question: Is doing those things a sin? When does behavior that is disapproved of become sinful, if ever? Telling me something is 'wrong' is not the same as telling me it is sinful. Maybe it's just my interpretation, I dunno.

This, I think, is a great question. 

 

I think we may not really know the answer to that until judgement day.  We certainly don't have the ability to judge any one person about those issues without knowing the intent of the heart. 

 

There are many ways to sin, there are so many that King Benjamin coudn't even number them; Mosiah 4 " 29 And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them.

 30 But this much I can tell you, that if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember, and perish not."

 

I think God will judge the act based in the effort given, as King Benjamin explains in verse 30.  As one of my young women said in Sunday school many years ago when we read this scripture;  "maybe this is where Ice Cube got the phrase 'check yo self'"