Gog from Magog

[Traveler]

Just wondering if anyone else is concerned that Isis operating in Iraq, Syria, Turkey and southern Russia, along with its leader seems to qualify in many ways as the Gog and Magog spoken of in prophesy by Exekiel?   

[Traveler]

Just wondering if anyone else is concerned that Isis operating in Iraq, Syria, Turkey and southern Russia (including some areas of Africa and Arabia), along with its leader seems to qualify in many ways as the Gog and Magog spoken of in prophesy by Exekiel?   

[The Folk Prophet]

I think it's too early. There's too many prophecies that need fulfilling before that time to start seeing the end of the world in every political battle. But maybe.

 

Here's an interesting thought I've had. I used to think when the big battle at the end of times came that America would be the good guy (possibly fighting alongside Israel or whathaveyou). But based on the current political culture and the way America is quickly heading, I cannot help but wonder if America (as a political unit) may not be the bad guy. This is entirely disheartening to me, incidentally (especially on a day like today - ).

[Sunday21]

My Book of Mormon manual says that one of the prophecies of the last days is that many Jews will join the church. I have not seen much of this so I think we are safe for a bit. Also there needs to be a temple built in missouri. And the 10 lost tribes need to return and bring their scriptures. I think we have time to wait.

[livy111us]

I've always found this to be the best explanation of who will be involved and what will happen

https://www.lds.org/manual/old-testament-student-manual-kings-malachi/enrichment-i?lang=eng

[Seminarysnoozer]

Just wondering if anyone else is concerned that Isis operating in Iraq, Syria, Turkey and southern Russia, along with its leader seems to qualify in many ways as the Gog and Magog spoken of in prophesy by Exekiel?   

Whenever I read those verses, especially in Ezekiel 39, I imagine Israel doing something that makes "all" the nations of the world upset, not just taking their lands.  I think one possibility is the use of nuclear weapons, that could potentially make "all the nations" want to gather together in one valley to fight.  And as the dead are buried they have to put up a sign next to the bones - makes me think of radiation risk.  Burying the dead for 7 years - also radiatioin exposure?  Maybe I have seen to many movies?

 

From what I understand, in the battle of Gog and Magog vs Israel, all the nations will be fighting.  Aren't they?  Seems like it would have to be an issue big enough for all the nations to want to pick a side.   Israel just taking back lands doesn't seem like a big enough issue by itself for the whole world to get involved. These other organizations like ISIS already have a bone to pick with Israel but there is going to have to be something bigger than that to involve everyone else, even though that might be a start. 

[Blackmarch]

not there yet, but its closer than it was a day or so ago.

[Traveler]

Perhaps I should have started this differently - Who thinks they know where the land of Magog is and how long it has been since any one tried to put that place under singular rule as one country with one leader?

[Latter Days Guy]

Isn't the Revelations reference to Gog and Magog referring to the nations of the world uniting against the returned Christ and his church?

[spamlds]

Isn't the Revelations reference to Gog and Magog referring to the nations of the world uniting against the returned Christ and his church?

 

Good point!  There are actually two battles of the forces of Gog and Magog against God's people.  The first is the Battle of Armageddon.  No specific nations are mentioned, but Gog and Magog are simply all those who combine against Israel at Armageddon before Jesus appears to the whole world at the Second Coming.

 

The second Gog and Magog battle occurs at the end of the millennium.  That's a really interesting topic.  If we consider that 3rd Nephi gives us a "type" or template for things which are to come, we see a pattern.  Here are the steps as an overview.

1. Prophets proclaim the signs of the first advent (Samuel the Lamanite in particular).
2. The people disregard the warning and the signs appear as prophesied.  Many people believe because of the signs.
3. Thirty-three years goes by and people begin to lose faith and patience.  Wars ensue.
4. A great destruction occurs.  The people who were killed were mostly the wicked ones and the more righteous people (terrestrial kingdom) survive.  This is what occurs at the destruction preceding the Second Coming.
5. The Lord appears and teaches the people.  They embrace his teachings and live in the United Order with all property in common.  (This represents the Millennium.)
6. After a few generations, unbelief starts to grow among the people who did not see the Savior's visit.  The three Nephites don't minister among them any more.  Apostasy grows.
7. Members of the church abandon the United Order and cease to have all things in common.
8. Social classes emerge based on wealth and opportunity for education.
9. Political divisions ensue.  At the end, the Nephite and Lamanites are not "racial" or ethnic groups.  They are political groups.  (Remember the Lamanites and Nephites intermarried during the years of unity and peace--there were no more "-ites" among them!)
10. Finally, war breaks out, society collapses, and utter destruction is visited upon them.  (Final war of Gog and Magog.)

We tend to focus on Armageddon because it's the closest to us, but there is a second battle of Gog and Magog.  I suspect that this one will be pointed toward the destruction of Zion, the New Jerusalem and will probably take place in North America.  The Lord's visit to the Americas was a literal event, but it also contains the symbolic outline of the events that will occur after the Second Coming down to the last battle of Gog and Magog at the Millennium's end.

[mirkwood]

Get a copy of Lund's The Coming Of The Lord.  It is the best book on catastrophic last days events out there.  It goes into pretty good detail on the topic.

[Traveler]

It is my impression that the nations of the civilized world in the last days are represented symbolically Babylon.  Anciently Magog was basically a land of the uncivilized barbarians.  I have wondered what would be going on in the world in our modern times that would cause and allow support of a global movement bent on the genocide of Israel.  I do think we are seeing the beginnings of the unbelievable.

 

I also think there is some misunderstanding concerning Jews being converted verses the Jews returning to Jerusalem.  It is my understanding that anti-Semitism has reached new high in all of Europe that is comparable to what was going on in Germany under the 3^rd Reich. 

 

Something else I have wondered about concerns what many call the battle of Armageddon.  My research indicates that no battle has ever been fought in the place which was anciently called Armageddon – rather this was the place of gathering for all the tribes of Israel in preparation for going into battle or war – that would actually take place elsewhere.   I have wondered if Armageddon is symbolic of preparations for war by all the nations of the world. 

 

Anyway some thoughts.

[Urstadt]

I have read scholars that believe that Magog is in Russia. I haven't found anything in our literature to back this up. I do know that one of our US presidents (Ronald Reagan) believed Magog was Russia. But, who knows. ISIS is in Russia and the other countries that are south of Russia, which is significant. (I just bring this up as a point of interest that I read and was intrigued by, nothing else.)

I agree that a lot of prophecies still need to transpire. At the same time, it's becoming more and more common for me to hear in stake and ward conferences that these last day prophecies would a) happen without many of us knowing it, or b ) that they would not happen on as grand a scale as we envisioned. For an example of A, we might not know that two prophets are killed in Israel and then resurrected on the third day. For an example of B, missionaries may not physically enter ever country, but the internet will bring the gospel to every nation, kindred, and tongue.

Obviosuly, I am not claiming to be right. I honestly don't know. I put this post out there because I suspect that there may some merit to it and I want to hear everybody else's thoughts.

[spamlds]

One thing that we don't often consider is how many countries were open to missionaries (and rejected them) at the early part of this dispensation.  For example, I believe Orson Hyde, on his way to dedicate the Holy Land for the return of the Jews in 1838 passed through many European cities, and along the way he preached in Constantinople, which is now Istanbul, Turkey.  

 

Another thing to consider that we have members in countries where we don't currently enjoy official recognition.  There was an article a few years ago in the Church News or the Ensign about members in Yemen, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia. In most of these Arab countries, there are communities of guest workers from other countries.  They are not Muslims and the government grants them permission to meet for worship services very discreetly.  There are many Filipino LDS  living in these Muslim countries for example.  We also have congregations that meet in mainland China.  They don't proselyte, but the example that LDS members set in communist East Germany demonstrates that our members can be good citizens in any political system.

 

When I was in the MTC in 1980, Elder Carlos E. Asay of the Seventy told us stories from his mission in Lebanon.  When I was in the Air Force during the Cold War, I was in Germany when Russia's government collapsed and East Germany reunified with the West.  It was an amazing thing to see our elders go into those countries and to see a temple built in Freiberg.  I would have never expected to see the gospel go into Russia during my lifetime back then.  

 

I would love to see a list of every country that has ever had LDS members in it or had LDS missionaries preach in it.  I would bet that it would show that we are very close to have preached the gospel in every nation in this dispensation.