Is This Appropriate?

[Hikchick]

My husband's parents were converted to the church a few years before he was born. (We are both in our early thirties.) Ever since I had met his family I noticed a few things that seemed odd to me. This one is the one that bothers me quite a bit. I've always thought that asking for forgiveness and repentance is a personal thing, yet when my husband's father ever says a prayer (with family or in church) he asks for "forgiveness for all our many sins". Am I wrong here? I know he doesn't mean any harm, but for some reason it bothers me quite a bit. Opinions are welcome, thanks!

[rosie321]

My husband's parents were converted to the church a few years before he was born. (We are both in our early thirties.) Ever since I had met his family I noticed a few things that seemed odd to me. This one is the one that bothers me quite a bit. I've always thought that asking for forgiveness and repentance is a personal thing, yet when my husband's father ever says a prayer (with family or in church) he asks for "forgiveness for all our many sins". Am I wrong here? I know he doesn't mean any harm, but for some reason it bothers me quite a bit. Opinions are welcome, thanks!

It might not be common but I'm not sure its a bad thing. His praying might draw people to the awareness of their shortcomings and need to repent and find forgiveness. Those who are in tune with the Holy Spirit will really feel the impact of those words and to those not the words will be of no effect.

Can't sins be done individually and collectively? Can't a group be swayed to sin to? Sometimes the group will sin collectively. People will do things they normally wouldn't.

So forgiveness is a personal thing but can't it be a group thing too?

Why can't people publically as well as privately do this? Why can't people collectively repent and seek forgiveness.

Your husbands words much like Christs parables might stick out and make people wonder if they find it strange. This wonder leading them to greater understandings

[Guest Username-Removed]

I dont see a problem with it as you have described. We all sin, in fact, many of the little sins, which include many little things, such as accidently taking a pen from a bank, are pretty insignificant, yet we know that even those probably need to be addressed in some way. Perhaps we accidently offend someone, or go through a yellow light that turns red in the intersection. So, as long as it is a general request for forgiveness for everyone in the room or taking part in the prayer, I dont have a problem with it, and its not really all that uncommon.

[StrawberryFields]

Ditto

[Jason]

Depending on what religion your husband's parents were in before their conversion to Mormonism, it may have been common to ask for forgiveness in prayers. All Apostolic Churches have prayers of forgiveness included as part of the liturgy. For example, in my church we pray every time:

"May the Lord bless us and forgive us of our sins, and may his peace rest on us this day, and evermore, Amen."

[Maureen]

Even the Lord's Prayer is a model for this request:

And forgive us our trespasses,

As we forgive them that trespass against us

M.

[Guest Yediyd]

Even the Lord's Prayer is a model for this request:

And forgive us our trespasses,

As we forgive them that trespass against us

M.

Maureen, ya beat me to it! That's exactly what I was going to say!!

[Hikchick]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the insight here. It makes it easier to understand. Having been raised in the church I had never heard anyone ask for this in a public prayer before. Maybe that's why I felt uneasy, because it was something outside of the box (for me, anyway). I have no problem asking for forgiveness or repentance. I just always thought it was my own personal job to do it and for some reason felt wierd when someone asked for me. What I am seeing now, is that he is doing it because he recognizes the need for us all, and not because he is pointing a finger at anyone.

Thanks again!

[Dr T]

I also don't see a problem with it (necessarily but it might if it is like the person giving his tithe only to be seen by others for example).

P.S. Great to c u M :)

[Palerider]

I see no problem with doing this ....

[Outshined]

I don't see it as a problem unless it is specific ("and especially forgive Mike for his sinful behavior")... B)

[Dr T]

Wait, he prays about forgiveness of other people's sins? I wouldn't do that but pray about assistance with overcoming that sinful act.

[Snow]

My husband's parents were converted to the church a few years before he was born. (We are both in our early thirties.) Ever since I had met his family I noticed a few things that seemed odd to me. This one is the one that bothers me quite a bit. I've always thought that asking for forgiveness and repentance is a personal thing, yet when my husband's father ever says a prayer (with family or in church) he asks for "forgiveness for all our many sins". Am I wrong here? I know he doesn't mean any harm, but for some reason it bothers me quite a bit. Opinions are welcome, thanks!

Yes - it's wrong, very wrong.

What happens is that a public manifestation of repentance and it's acompanying solicitation of forgivenesss necessarily increases the ontological bandwidth requirements of prayer. That's because true repentance requires contrition, conviction and conversion. Give that public prayer requires more bandwidth than private, - add in the extra bandwidth for the three c's and all the sudden you've expanded the spiritual envelope of prayer conveyance. Since it is uniformily more difficult to concentrate in public than in prayer, the intensity of the envelope generally suffers. Though the integrity of the core conveyance usually remains intact, the outer portions generally degenerate and bleed towards the edges. Of course prayer conveyances, by their vary nature are self-correcting. That is - the edges with seek to balance with the core. Unless the "prayer-giver" understands what's going on and ups the theological amperage, if you will, to compensate for the extra demand of prayer balancing, then the whole conveyance is likely to either collapse, or reach out to other unrelated conveyances. Given that you have no way to control the content or nature whatever other conveyances are in the area, you face the very real risk of adverse mixing. I don't need to explain the significance of adverse mixing. My grandmother and her sister were both damned for it.

I suggest that unless your husband's parents stop immediately that you seperate from your husband and put as much distance as you possibly can between you and him - for your soul's sake. That may be the best advice you've ever received.

[Gabelma]

Depending on what religion your husband's parents were in before their conversion to Mormonism, it may have been common to askoing to as for forgiveness in prayers. All Apostolic Churches have prayers of forgiveness included as part of the liturgy. For example, in my church we pray every time:

"May the Lord bless us and forgive us of our sins, and may his peace rest on us this day, and evermore, Amen."

I was going to ask if they had Scots Presbyterian in their background the exact phrase is used in a lot of prayers in my area - I grew up with it so to me its normal and kind of see it like pp have said as a version of the line in the Lords Prayer

another phrase is help us so we may more pefectly love thee,

Charley

[the Ogre]

<div class='quotemain'>

Opinions are welcome, thanks!

Yes - it's wrong, very wrong.

Did he include details? That might be the only thing wrong in the prayer: "Please forgive Sister Smith for going on too long in her talk that basically said nothing and only showed the investigators dumb she was and the rest of us are by association," or "Please forgive me for eating those three dozen Albertson's doughnuts," or "Please forgive my wife for nit-picking the bishop every night before we go to bed while she's flossing her nasty yellowing teeth."

[TimA.]

Anyone is welcome to pray for my forgiveness. I figure I need all the help I can get. :)

Tim

[prisonchaplain]

It's not uncommon to offer up general petitions for forgiveness during times of public prayer. In the OT, the whole nation would gather for Sacred Assemblies, which, quite often were called so that the people could repent en masse. I attended the Promise Keepers Sacred Assembly in Oct. '97. At it, some unsympathetic groups (especially feminists and homosexuals) expected political bravado couched in religious verbage. What they got were somewhere in the neighborhood of a million men, on their knees and faces, asking God to forgive them for failing as husbands, fathers, and churchmen. They saw reconciliation across racial and denominational lines.

Yet, it was all generalized. Nobody was singled out, or fronted out.

The response of the critics? "Isn't it pathetic to see a bunch of grown men groveling in the dirt before their supposed god?"

My guess is that 6-hours has done more to protect our nation spiritually, than the countless hours of "values" lobbying and politicing.

[Maureen]

P.S. Great to c u M :)

Great to see you 2, Doc!

Yes - it's wrong, very wrong.

What happens is that a public manifestation of repentance and it's acompanying solicitation of forgivenesss necessarily increases the ontological bandwidth requirements of prayer. That's because true repentance requires contrition, conviction and conversion. Give that public prayer requires more bandwidth than private, - add in the extra bandwidth for the three c's and all the sudden you've expanded the spiritual envelope of prayer conveyance. Since it is uniformily more difficult to concentrate in public than in prayer, the intensity of the envelope generally suffers. Though the integrity of the core conveyance usually remains intact, the outer portions generally degenerate and bleed towards the edges. Of course prayer conveyances, by their vary nature are self-correcting. That is - the edges with seek to balance with the core. Unless the "prayer-giver" understands what's going on and ups the theological amperage, if you will, to compensate for the extra demand of prayer balancing, then the whole conveyance is likely to either collapse, or reach out to other unrelated conveyances. Given that you have no way to control the content or nature whatever other conveyances are in the area, you face the very real risk of adverse mixing. I don't need to explain the significance of adverse mixing. My grandmother and her sister were both damned for it.

I suggest that unless your husband's parents stop immediately that you seperate from your husband and put as much distance as you possibly can between you and him - for your soul's sake. That may be the best advice you've ever received.

Oh brother! Mr. Winking Eyeball sure likes to see himself type - and such big words too.

M.

[Hikchick]

<div class='quotemain'>

P.S. Great to c u M :)

Great to see you 2, Doc!

Yes - it's wrong, very wrong.

What happens is that a public manifestation of repentance and it's acompanying solicitation of forgivenesss necessarily increases the ontological bandwidth requirements of prayer. That's because true repentance requires contrition, conviction and conversion. Give that public prayer requires more bandwidth than private, - add in the extra bandwidth for the three c's and all the sudden you've expanded the spiritual envelope of prayer conveyance. Since it is uniformily more difficult to concentrate in public than in prayer, the intensity of the envelope generally suffers. Though the integrity of the core conveyance usually remains intact, the outer portions generally degenerate and bleed towards the edges. Of course prayer conveyances, by their vary nature are self-correcting. That is - the edges with seek to balance with the core. Unless the "prayer-giver" understands what's going on and ups the theological amperage, if you will, to compensate for the extra demand of prayer balancing, then the whole conveyance is likely to either collapse, or reach out to other unrelated conveyances. Given that you have no way to control the content or nature whatever other conveyances are in the area, you face the very real risk of adverse mixing. I don't need to explain the significance of adverse mixing. My grandmother and her sister were both damned for it.

I suggest that unless your husband's parents stop immediately that you seperate from your husband and put as much distance as you possibly can between you and him - for your soul's sake. That may be the best advice you've ever received.

Oh brother! Mr. Winking Eyeball sure likes to see himself type - and such big words too.

M.

LOL I did get a good kick out of that one! LOL

[Snow]

Oh brother! Mr. Winking Eyeball sure likes to see himself type - and such big words too.

M.

I wouldn't say it if it weren't scientifically proven to be true. I read it in Scientific Quarterly.