25, Haven't Started Dating Because of Health Issues.

[The Folk Prophet]

A minimum wage job does not pay for basic needs. If you make say 10.00/hr that's $20,800.00 per year (gross). Please explain how to be self sufficient on that wage.

 

The fact that you do not understand this is exactly why there are so many debt problems.

[Suzie]

This may be a response affected by my culture.  But here's my 2 cents.

 

Let's take 1 single person.  He still has to find the ability to provide all his temporal needs regardless of whether he is married or not.

 

Let's take the other single person.  She still has to find the ability to provide for all her temporal needs regardless of whether she is married or not.

 

If they are not capable, they remain under the support of their parents (I am going to assume that all y'all don't kick your kids out of the house at age 18 regardless of whether they can support themselves or not).

 

Now, what changes if they got married?  NOTHING.

 

They would both still have to figure out how to support themselves.  BUT... now they can do it together.  They can share the shelter, share the food, share any and all resources one to the other.  2 people finding resources and not only temporally but more importantly, spiritually supporting each other in the process.

 

What if they are not capable?  Same thing.  They remain under the support of their parents just like when they are single.

 

My oldest brother did not move out of my parents' house until he saved up enough money to rent his own place - his son was 7 months old by this time.  My sister didn't move out until she and her husband got approved for US visas - they had 2 children by this time.  My other brother did not move out of my parents' house until he was nearing 40 with 3 children because him and his wife were still in medical school.  I moved out when I graduated from college... I have been working since I was 12 and had my own money.  I sent money to my parents to add to their resources.  In this manner, we are all socialists - we put all our resources under one pot and we support whoever in the family needs it until they have the means to get their own house.

 

Now, the only reason then to postpone marriage is if you can't risk getting pregnant.  But, in American Society - the risk of getting pregnant when single is the same as when married...

 

So... am I saying you should get married even if you're destitute?  No.  I didn't say that.  All I said is - marriage is not dependent on the amount of money you have.  It is dependent on finding that eternal companion who vows to walk through life with you in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer, forever and ever and ever.

 

Yes, it seems to be cultural. I cannot imagine my parents being okay with their children (and grandchildren) living under their roof until they are 40, medical school or not.

[Guest]

​The simple fact that the divorce rate in the church approaches the national average says it all. Whatever we are doing is not working  

 

If you can prove that the ones getting divorced are those who are poor, then I might agree with you.

 

The church divorce rate approaches national average because people - regardless of religion - are selfish.

[The Folk Prophet]

Being unemployed does not make you ineligible to think about anything you want but actually getting married if you are unemployed it is both unwise and irresponsible, IMO and I think the quote I provided earlier on supports that view (the one about having the ability to care for a family).

 

We're saying the same(ish) thing.

 

Just anecdotal, I was gainfully (sort of) employed when I was married ($10 an hour job in the 90s). I got canned (let go? fired?) just before my wedding.

 

A points to this. It took me 3 months to find another job. It caused me trouble. Yes. But did we get by? Yes. Did we get by without help? Not really? Am I okay with that? Sure. Did it play a big role in my current financial life? No. Was it wrong for me to not cancel my wedding? The idea is laughable to me.

 

Stuff happens.

 

If you're sitting around not working because you're a lazy bum, you shouldn't be getting married anyhow. If you happen to be unemployed because of a setback, for a month or two it's a very, very different story.

[The Folk Prophet]

This may be a response affected by my culture.  But here's my 2 cents.

 

Let's take 1 single person.  He still has to find the ability to provide all his temporal needs regardless of whether he is married or not.

 

Let's take the other single person.  She still has to find the ability to provide for all her temporal needs regardless of whether she is married or not.

 

If they are not capable, they remain under the support of their parents (I am going to assume that all y'all don't kick your kids out of the house at age 18 regardless of whether they can support themselves or not).

 

Now, what changes if they got married?  NOTHING.

 

They would both still have to figure out how to support themselves.  BUT... now they can do it together.  They can share the shelter, share the food, share any and all resources one to the other.  2 people finding resources and not only temporally but more importantly, spiritually supporting each other in the process.

 

What if they are not capable?  Same thing.  They remain under the support of their parents just like when they are single.

 

My oldest brother did not move out of my parents' house until he saved up enough money to rent his own place - his son was 7 months old by this time.  My sister didn't move out until she and her husband got approved for US visas - they had 2 children by this time.  My other brother did not move out of my parents' house until he was nearing 40 with 3 children because him and his wife were still in medical school.  I moved out when I graduated from college... I have been working since I was 12 and had my own money.  I sent money to my parents to add to their resources.  In this manner, we are all socialists - we put all our resources under one pot and we support whoever in the family needs it until they have the means to get their own house.

 

Now, the only reason then to postpone marriage is if you can't risk getting pregnant.  But, in American Society - the risk of getting pregnant when single is the same as when married...

 

So... am I saying you should get married even if you're destitute?  No.  I didn't say that.  All I said is - marriage is not dependent on the amount of money you have.  It is dependent on finding that eternal companion who vows to walk through life with you in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer, forever and ever and ever.

 

Every American should spend some time in the Philippines or similar cultures to gain some perspective on their American spoiled-rottenness. :)

[Suzie]

We're saying the same(ish) thing.

 

Just anecdotal, I was gainfully (sort of) employed when I was married ($10 an hour job in the 90s). I got canned (let go? fired?) just before my wedding.

 

A points to this. It took me 3 months to find another job. It caused me trouble. Yes. But did we get by? Yes. Did we get by without help? Not really? Am I okay with that? Sure. Did it play a big role in my current financial life? No. Was it wrong for me to not cancel my wedding? The idea is laughable to me.

 

Stuff happens.

 

If you're sitting around not working because you're a lazy bum, you shouldn't be getting married anyhow. If you happen to be unemployed because of a setback, for a month or two it's a very, very different story.

 

How long before the wedding? If it's a few days and you had already everything organized I understand but if we're talking about months before, I don't see anything wrong with postponing the wedding until you can get a job.

[Guest]

Yes, it seems to be cultural. I cannot imagine my parents being okay with their children (and grandchildren) living under their roof until they are 40, medical school or not.

 

And that's where I see the problem.  The same problem that puts the Elderly in Old Folks Homes is the same problem that puts young adults on the homeless street and is the same problem that expands the welfare state - young and old.  It's a culture that divides parents from children in the name of "self-sufficiency" and muddies the ideals of Eternal Families and Eternal Marriage.

[omegaseamaster75]

The fact that you do not understand this is exactly why there are so many debt problems.

lets do some math, so 20,080/yr that's about 18,200 take home 

 

Tithing (i'll assume paid on gross): 2080

Rent (again I'll go cheap 500.00/ month): 6000.00/yr

Food(lets say 200.00/mo): 2400.00

Basic utilities 150/mo: 1800.00

Clothing lets say they shop at the DI: 200

Car lets just assume maintenance and repairs: 200.00

Gas 120/mo: 1440

Insurance: 1200

 

I'm up to 15320.00 so far

 

Heaven forbid their car breaks down, personal needs, bathroom supplies, general maintenance around the home....wait what if someone needs to go to the hospital? People do get sick. I can hear the plastic cracking on that credit card already.

 

Clearly you do not understand.

[Guest]

Every American should spend some time in the Philippines or similar cultures to gain some perspective on their American spoiled-rottenness. :)

 

I see the smiley, but I'll answer this seriously... Americans are not spoiled rotten.  That's not what I see as the problem.  It's the American Individualism that is more a problem.  Which is tough because it is that same Individualism that brought about the unrivaled strength of America.  "To each his own" is both good and bad in equal measure.

 

There has to be a balance somewhere.  If we can just ignore the political influence of self-serving Americans and seek pure social solutions, that balance can be found.  That was really one of the reasons why I really really really liked Mitt Romney.  He gave that speech about this exact same thing - his desire to shape American Culture and let that culture shape the American Government.  Of course, I understand that this is only appealing if you share the same cultural ideals as Romney...

[Guest]

lets do some math, so 20,080/yr that's about 18,200 take home 

 

Tithing (i'll assume paid on gross): 2080

Rent (again I'll go cheap 500.00/ month): 6000.00/yr

Food(lets say 200.00/mo): 2400.00

Basic utilities 150/mo: 1800.00

Clothing lets say they shop at the DI: 200

Car lets just assume maintenance and repairs: 200.00

Gas 120/mo: 1440

Insurance: 1200

 

I'm up to 15320.00 so far

 

God forbid their car breaks down, personal needs, bathroom supplies, general maintenance around the home....wait what if someone needs to go to the hospital? People do get sick. I can hear the plastic cracking on that credit card already.

 

Clearly you do not understand.

 

Now, TFP, this comment... this is spoiled-rotten Americans...

 

 

Omega, of course, if you live like $50,000/year people, you can't live off of $20,000/year.  Sheesh.

 

Here's one example of a dude living in his own land mortgage and utility free:

 

But, but but... I can't live like that!  Yep.  Spoiled-rotten American.

[The Folk Prophet]

lets do some math, so 20,080/yr that's about 18,200 take home 

 

Tithing (i'll assume paid on gross): 2080

Rent (again I'll go cheap 500.00/ month): 6000.00/yr

Food(lets say 200.00/mo): 2400.00

Basic utilities 150/mo: 1800.00

Clothing lets say they shop at the DI: 200

Car lets just assume maintenance and repairs: 200.00

Gas 120/mo: 1440

Insurance: 1200

 

I'm up to 15320.00 so far

 

... their car breaks down, personal needs, bathroom supplies, general maintenance around the home....wait what if someone needs to go to the hospital? People do get sick. I can hear the plastic cracking on that credit card already.

 

Clearly you do not understand.

 

Clearly you have never priced Ramen.

[omegaseamaster75]

Please tell me were I over shot....I don't think any of those numbers are excessive living expenses

[Guest]

Please tell me were I over shot....I don't think any of those numbers are excessive living expenses

 

You're a candidate for a one-year trip to the Philippines...

[The Folk Prophet]

Americans are not spoiled rotten. 

 

Oh yes we are. I lived for 2 years without running water, brown outs, spiders, cockroach city, boil all your water, etc., etc... And you know what? It was fine! I didn't actually need running water. Imagine that!

[Guest]

Oh yes we are. I lived for 2 years without running water, brown outs, spiders, cockroach city, boil all your water, etc., etc... And you know what? It was fine! I didn't actually need running water. Imagine that!

 

I lived in Texas for a while.  Many many many many people I met there live "urban farmer" lives... They have their land that was passed down for generations with their children, grandchildren all occupying the same land that it's what you would call a family compound... growing their own stuff for food and their own wells for water and commuting the 1 hour to downtown to work... yeah, that's where I saw all these trucks with their rifles and shotguns hanging from the back window...  I wouldn't be surprised if these people comprises close to the majority, if not the majority, of America.

 

P.S.  I thought Brown Out is a Filipino term!  I just now learned, it's an American term too!  Interesting!

 

 

P.P.S... I'm of a different perspective because where I grew up, both my grandparent's houses did not get electricity until the 80's.  We were celebrities because my dad moved us to the city where not only was there electricity, we had phones too!  We were the first family in my side of town to get a Betamax...

We spent summers at my grandparents'... every single morning, I sat next to my grandpa who does his morning exercise by pumping water manually to fill the water tank 50 feet above the ground... the pump was this big long log that my grandfather would put on his shoulder and do squats with... and then push down with his arms to do biceps and triceps... When I see the cross that the volunteer Jesus actor carries during the Lenten celebration, I think of that pump... but my water-pumping grandpa felt very blessed because he had indoor plumbing and indoor bathroom.  My other grandparent was not so lucky (grandpa on that side died in WWII)... we go to the outhouse there and carry water into the kitchen with buckets... Shower is, of course, standing outdoors in the middle of the backyard pouring water down with a "tabo" (yeah, you can google that word)...

[Suzie]

Oh yes we are. I lived for 2 years without running water, brown outs, spiders, cockroach city, boil all your water, etc., etc... And you know what? It was fine! I didn't actually need running water. Imagine that!

 

Now I am getting worried. lol

 

I understand the "spoiled rotten" mentality and I fully agree with that (personally, I have zero debts and I am far from wealthy) but I think it is crazy to put children or a spouse through that (no running water, etc) IF can be helped by preparing yourself before you get married. Why rushing to get married when you (generally "you" eh) cannot even have running water? It is complete madness.

 

Granted, many people around the world LIVE like that unfortunately,  BUT I assure you that if they could, they would NOT choose to live like that. if you are making a conscious and stubborn choice of getting married despite that I think is a very selfish and foolish choice.

[The Folk Prophet]

Now I am getting worried. lol

 

I understand the "spoiled rotten" mentality and I fully agree with that (personally, I have zero debts and I am far from wealthy) but I think it is crazy to put children or a spouse through that (no running water, etc) IF can be helped by preparing yourself before you get married. Why rushing to get married when you (generally "you" eh) cannot even have running water? It is complete madness.

 

Granted, many people around the world LIVE like that unfortunately,  BUT I assure you that if they could, they would NOT choose to live like that. if you are making a conscious and stubborn choice of getting married despite that I think is a very selfish and foolish choice.

 

:) I am not advocating living without running water. Just so we're clear.

[Suzie]

:) I am not advocating living without running water. Just so we're clear.

 

Yay!! We agree again. lol

[The Folk Prophet]

Yay!! We agree again. lol

 

I "liked" this, but I'm not sure I like agreeing with you. It makes me uncomfortable. 

 

Heheh. j/k, of course.

[Suzie]

I "liked" this, but I'm not sure I like agreeing with you. It makes me uncomfortable. 

 

Heheh. j/k, of course.

 

You made me laugh loud there. lol Thanks. Feeling super- stressed today and laughing a bit helps.

[Backroads]

A minimum wage job does not pay for basic needs. If you make say 10.00/hr that's $20,800.00 per year (gross). Please explain how to be self sufficient on that wage.

 

I used to make 10$ an hour.  Now, my husband is in the Army Reserve so we had a few hundred extra dollars each month, but that 10$ an hour supported us fairly nicely. It rented us an apartment, it bought gas, groceries, and the odd sushi dinner (we are sushi addicts). 

 

Most of my office also made 10$ an hour.  Even the single people lived well enough.

 

I know cost of living factors in, and I'm not saying one should support a large family on 10$ an hour, but it worked well enough for us. 

[Guest]

Now I am getting worried. lol

 

I understand the "spoiled rotten" mentality and I fully agree with that (personally, I have zero debts and I am far from wealthy) but I think it is crazy to put children or a spouse through that (no running water, etc) IF can be helped by preparing yourself before you get married. Why rushing to get married when you (generally "you" eh) cannot even have running water? It is complete madness.

 

Granted, many people around the world LIVE like that unfortunately,  BUT I assure you that if they could, they would NOT choose to live like that. if you are making a conscious and stubborn choice of getting married despite that I think is a very selfish and foolish choice.

 

The reason you don't get married when you cannot even have running water in the USA in today's time goes beyond being ready for marriage.  This is being not ready for life.  It takes a lot of unfortunate events to get to that point... now, of course, there are those who choose to live without running water (most of them are environmentalists or survivalists).

 

But, if you got there because of unfortunate events beyond your control instead of getting there because of unfortunate events brought on by your stupid choices (drugs would be my #1 culprit), a spouse could be just the person that could support you in getting out of that gutter... Not having running water because you spent your money on drugs?  Not ready for marriage because of your drug problem, not your running water problem.

 

Make sense?

[estradling75]

 Do you agree (as the quote stated) that a person should have the ability to provide financially for a family, the basic needs such as food, clothing and shelter before they pursue marriage?

 

I know you asked TFP  and he answered but I would like to share my experience with exactly this question

 

When I returned home from my mission I had a plan.  I knew I wanted a family and I knew I needed to be able to support them.  So I figured out what I wanted to do and picked a school that would help me get the skills I needed. (It also had a good track record of job placement on graduation)

 

Before my mission I was a socially awkward nerd... a mission knocked a lot of the rough edges off  but I still figured it would take me a few years of dating before I found a wife.  Which meant that if I dated during school the time should be just about right.

 

I liked the plan.  I thought it had everything covered.  So I locked it down and went to work.

 

I met the future sister estradling75 about three months after getting home from my mission.  I had barely gotten started on my plan.  Due to her personal status she quickly got confirmation that I was the one for her.  She did not tell me this, but things got intense between us fast any ways.

 

She totally messed up my plan.  I fought against it.  The fight drove me to my knees.  I tried to deny her and send her away, she was wiser then me and held on anyways.  When I couldn't deny,  I tried to delay.  I knew I was no where near ready. So I tried to say sure its her and we can do something about it in a couple of years when I am ready. (In retrospect not a wise idea and I am not surprised now that it was shutdown).  I wanted the Lord to give me the answer I wanted to hear.  So I fought against everything else.  I mean,  I thought I was doing the right thing, following the councils being prepared and all that.

 

In end the Lord pretty much impressed upon my mind that I had a choice.  I could accept what he had planned for me or I could try doing it my way if I really really really wanted to.  I would like to think that I am not totally stupid.  I got the message finally.  I knew that I still wasn't ready, but well, I needed to push forward anyways.

 

We got married, and there was no miracle that suddenly made the finances work..  We lived with my mother-in-law (and yes it was that bad), but in the bad moments I knew I was exactly where the Lord wanted me to be and that was enough.  My plan continued to roll on and with big exception of getting married early it pretty much went flawlessly.  I got a job, the money got better, and we moved into our own home.

 

So I think it is very clear that I am a big fan of being ready...  But we should not be so locked in to being ready that we miss the times the Lord tells us we need to take a Leap of Faith.  In my case it was in the timing of getting married, for other it might be the timing of having kids.  For others when it comes it might have nothing to do with their family but be on a totally different subject.

 

 Of course being ready to take that Leap does not mean we just jump out whenever we feel like it.  But only when the Lord Guides us to that point.

[Backroads]

I still haven't seen a clear answer on this:

 

Are we saying one must be in one's life career before getting married, or just have a reasonable grip on finances and support?

[Suzie]

But, if you got there because of unfortunate events beyond your control instead of getting there because of unfortunate events brought on by your stupid choices (drugs would be my #1 culprit), a spouse could be just the person that could support you in getting out of that gutter... Not having running water because you spent your money on drugs?  Not ready for marriage because of your drug problem, not your running water problem.

 

Make sense?

 

What I am saying is (taking the running water example): IF you do not have running water and you could change that situation by waiting a bit while you can fix your situation, why the rush of getting married?. It is selfish IMO and foolish to pursue marriage and hope that your spouse and children would have to live under those circumstances just because you was desperate to tie the knot instead of waiting a little while. It is wrong, IMO. Getting married is not a race.