Guest harpsichord Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 I am the organist for my ward. I am also the organist for a catholic church. I am paid by the catholic church to play for their masses. After playing two masses on Sunday, the last thing I want to do is another one for no pay but I feel obligated to do it because no one else can play well and the bishop pressures me to. I few pianists can sort of get by on the piano, but the quality is very low and they do not know the organ. I believe organ is ideal for congregational hymn singing. Perhaps I should just tell them I can't do it anymore and let one of the amateur pianists take over. If they are not paying, they should not expect high quality so it shouldn't really matter, right?
pam Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 Well if you think the Lord doesn't deserve quality and our time..yeh I guess so. Leah and notquiteperfect 2
Guest harpsichord Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 Well if you think the Lord doesn't deserve quality and our time..yeh I guess so.Yeah, I do believe the Lord deserves quality. This is another reason why I am torn about giving up the calling. I guess I should just change my attitude about it and try to remember that I am serving The Lord, not just the members of the church. I am probably just being a whiner but it is hard on me.
Wingnut Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 I guess I should just change my attitude about it and try to remember that I am serving The Lord... Yep. notquiteperfect 1
Guest harpsichord Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 Do any of you believe that musicians should be paid? It is hard, highly skilled work and the quality would likely be higher. I know this is never actually going to happen. I guess there is really no point in asking.
pam Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 No I don't. Our talents are to be used and shared in moving the work forward. We are called to those positions to serve. Not to expect to get paid for it. Now if an organist or a pianist was asked by a ward member to play for a personal function then yes. But not for church service. Leah, Wingnut and notquiteperfect 3
pam Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 I've been in a ward where the gospel doctrine teacher was a professor. I've seen seminary teachers teaching gospel doctrine. Teaching is their profession. They spent years going to school to become teachers. And yes their classes were many times of higher quality. Should we start paying them too? notquiteperfect, Leah, Sunday21 and 1 other 4
Guest harpsichord Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 Perhaps we should. If money is involved, then we can accept a certain level of quality. Isn't this a good thing? Yeah, as it is, we are getting a lot of very good work done for no pay but there is also a lot of poor work done as well. What can we do about the poor quality work? Not much since it is unpaid.
Just_A_Guy Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Do any of you believe that musicians should be paid? It is hard, highly skilled work and the quality would likely be higher. I know this is never actually going to happen. I guess there is really no point in asking. At some level, where it becomes impossible to have a regular day-to-day job, perhaps. But I don't know that it's necessary or appropriate for a weekly worship service. Other denominations can do as they will, and if Mormons can obtain good positions serving as musicians for those other denominations and are at peace with their decision--good for them. But as for the LDS Church--I think God is willing to put up with merely average (or perhaps slightly mediocre) music if it means that the work of the Church in other fields can be moved forward more efficiently. :) Edited October 7, 2014 by Just_A_Guy
Guest harpsichord Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 At some level, where it becomes impossible to have a regular day-to-day job, perhaps. But I don't know that it's necessary or appropriate for a weekly worship service. Other denominations can do as they will, and if Mormons can obtain good positions serving as musicians for those other denominations and are at peace with their decision--good for them. But as for the LDS Church--I think God is willing to put up with merely average (or perhaps slightly mediocre) music if it means that the work of the Church in other fields can be moved forward more efficiently. :)I guess this approach is kind of sad to me as someone who has devoted her life to sacred music. I feel like Mormons are missing out on high quality church music. Music is so effective for spiritual growth. It's just unfortunate that Mormons usually have mediocre music. This does not include the Mormon tabernacle choir and the organists at the tabernacle. They are absolutely amazing!
pam Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 Perhaps we should. If money is involved, then we can accept a certain level of quality. Isn't this a good thing? Yeah, as it is, we are getting a lot of very good work done for no pay but there is also a lot of poor work done as well. What can we do about the poor quality work? Not much since it is unpaid. It doesn't work that way. I've been a manager for businesses. How many people have I fired and let go because they were getting paid and providing low quality. Pay does not equal quality. The spirit of service many times does. And sometimes a touch of humility. Wingnut and notquiteperfect 2
bytor2112 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Your comments are so arrogant....are you a Latter Day Saint? We have wonderfully spiritual music and it is so because of the Holy Spirit that is invited and NOT because of your alleged organ playing prowess. You should repent and find some humility.... Edited October 8, 2014 by bytor2112 notquiteperfect and pam 2
paulsifer42 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 Something that needs to be remembered too is that one reason for calling is to develop talents. In my last wars they called someone to be the organist who didn't even know how to play the piano. Were some songs a little rough? Sure, but by the end of it she did great. I kind of play the guitar, I wish I'd get called to play the hymns on that because embarrassment is a great motivator. Valid are about worship and growth, not money. Maybe, as you said, God has called you to help you grow a better attitude. pipeorgan and pam 2
pipeorgan Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 Your comments are so arrogant....are you a Latter Day Saint? We have wonderfully spiritual music and it is so because of the Holy Spirit that is invited and NOT because of your alleged organ playing prowess. You should repent and find some humility....Are you really in a place to judge me and tell me what I should do? This is harpsichord, btw. I had an issue with my other account. I see how I might come off as arrogant. I believe it is just a different approach. Of course, I am going to have a different approach having studied music to a high level.
pipeorgan Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 Something that needs to be remembered too is that one reason for calling is to develop talents. In my last wars they called someone to be the organist who didn't even know how to play the piano. Were some songs a little rough? Sure, but by the end of it she did great. I kind of play the guitar, I wish I'd get called to play the hymns on that because embarrassment is a great motivator. Valid are about worship and growth, not money. Maybe, as you said, God has called you to help you grow a better attitude.I agree that it does give a place for a person to develop his or her talents. That is a great thing. Both systems have their good points.
Palerider Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 No they should not be paid..... Perhaps you need to pray for a change of heart or just tell them you want released. If your attitude is not good it probably shows.
Mahone Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I see how I might come off as arrogant. I believe it is just a different approach. Of course, I am going to have a different approach having studied music to a high level. I work in system and network administration. It's something I have studied for a number of years, have worked hard to get to where I currently am and is how I earn my living. I was called as the ward technical specialist in my previous ward, so essentially I was providing my expertise FoC. I didn't view it differently to any other calling. Edited October 8, 2014 by Mahone Wingnut and notquiteperfect 2
Jane_Doe Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I understand you Pipeorgan. I spent 2 years teaching public speaking and hearing so many Mormons with horrendous public speaking skills makes my ears want bleed. I confess to occasionally having to step out of Sacrement Meeting because of the speaker's exceptional lack of skill. There is something that helps me though....Does anyone remember the show "Full House"? There's an episode where Jesse (a pro musician) here's his wife singing to their little boys. Jesse cringes- his wife has a horrible voice!! He then spends the entire episode trying to teach her to sing, but it's a lost cause and he has to give up. Then towards the end of the episode, he walks upstairs and here's her singing to the kids again. This time he listens-- not to the notes, not to the words, but to the emotions. And he bursts into tears at how beautiful she is: her voice carries such a magnitude of love for her babies! When it comes to the Lord, it's the heart that counts more than skill. Edited October 8, 2014 by Jane_Doe notquiteperfect, pipeorgan and classylady 3
pipeorgan Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 In many cases, playing for church services is a large portion of a professional organist's income. It takes years and years of hard work to be able to play the instrument well. Other denominations paying for its musicians is a good thing. I have to make money somehow, and ideally, I earn it by making use of my art that I have worked so hard for.
pipeorgan Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 I work in system and network administration. It's something I have studied for a number of years, have worked hard to get to where I currently am and is how I earn my living. I was called as the ward technical specialist in my previous ward, so essentially I was providing my expertise FoC. I didn't view it differently to any other calling.Well, I mean that we have a difference in what our idea of quality music is. It is very nice of you to devote your time and skill to the church. I guess the different is, for a professional organist, churches are a main source of income, whereas there are tons of places one can work as a sysadmin. I wish I was passionate about something in the STEM fields.
Mahone Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) In many cases, playing for church services is a large portion of a professional organist's income. It takes years and years of hard work to be able to play the instrument well. Other denominations paying for its musicians is a good thing. I have to make money somehow, and ideally, I earn it by making use of my art that I have worked so hard for. Edit: answered above Edited October 8, 2014 by Mahone
pipeorgan Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 I understand that God is not going to punish or look down upon someone who is not skilled. Unfortunately, the result and effect on the congregation is often undesirable if the musician is not skilled. I have heard many people complain about the music in church. I have also has members approach me in tears expressing how moved they were by my playing. I am not saying this to brag. I am saying that there is a benefit to having a professional musician in church. The unskilled musician is likely to be far less moving than the skilled one.
pam Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 And then we deny others that opportunity to learn and to grow in their own talent. There is more to a calling than just be the best qualified. Leah and notquiteperfect 2
Palerider Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 I served as a Bishop and Branch President for close to 12yrs. Never asked for money nor do I want any. Gave up lots and lots of family time and personal time for others. I would do it over again if ever called a third time. Leah and pam 2
Guest Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 I'm a musician who gives a considerable amount of time and effort to the church. It's my privilege, and also an enormous part of keeping my covenants. Also, I enjoy it. Music is a favorite aspect of worship for me.We never fulfill an obligation without being blessed. My abilities have increased a great deal as a result of my service. I have many pus.I students directly because of getting my name out by serving in music callings. Frequently I've been blessed to perform even better than I'm capable. Some of my holiest experiences have happened through hymns and other musical worship.I believe we must give if our time and talents with the right attitude, however. Not that I've never complained... But overall, I love my music callings and I know from where my talents come.
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