Interfaith discussions and source material

[prisonchaplain]

The other day one of our LDS volunteers asked me about salary for a hypothetical LDS chaplain.  The reason it was a question was that he was quite certain that LDS have no paid clergy, so would they receive their salaries?  I said they likely would, and that they would then have an added obligation to tithe, since chaplains generally must keep current on their relationships with their faith endorsers.

 

Then I said something I thought was not controversial.  "Since there are a few LDS leaders who receive modest stipends, or living allowances, it shouldn't be surprising that chaplains would keep their salaries."  He was quite certain I was wrong--that no LDS leader received any kind of pay at all--or allowance--or stipend.

 

I did not really care too much one way or the other--except, I wanted the volunteer to know I was not just making up what I said--or worse, repeating what I might have heard from critics.  So, I am wondering what sources I can use to find out about the stipends of GAs and Mission Presidents that would be considered unimpeachable.  For the Mission Presidents I found an lds.org source--an article from Liahona magazine.  However, I could not find anything at lds.org about the GA's receiving allowances.  Finally, I used a fairlds.org article, and acknowledged that it was not an official source, though it was pro-LDS.

 

So I ask the greater community here, what else could I have done.  If an LDS member has not heard of lds.net, they might not trust "social media."  I would hazzard to guess that many LDS will not trust anything that is not from lds.org.  So...how to discuss things, and show good faith, openness and fairness?  Thoughts?

[Maureen]

Here's one:

 

...Unlike local leaders, who maintain their normal vocations while serving in Church assignments, General Authorities set aside their careers to devote their full time to the ministry of their office. The living allowance given General Authorities rarely if ever equals the earnings they sacrifice to serve full-time in the Church....

 

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/General_Authorities

 

M.

[Maureen]

...I should like to add, parenthetically for your information, that the living allowances given the General Authorities, which are very modest in comparison with executive compensation in industry and the professions, come from this business income and not from the tithing of the people....

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1985/10/questions-and-answers?lang=eng

 

M.

[Maureen]

...However, a small number of Mormon Church leaders who are called to full-time service receive a “living allowance.”...

 

http://mormonchurch.com/53/does-the-church-have-a-paid-clergy

 

M.

 

 

[prisonchaplain]

I'd seen this one, but could not find where the actual quote came from.  Finally, the short last paragraph for Question #4.  So...if he asks for something more official, I now have that answer.  Thanks! 

 

...I should like to add, parenthetically for your information, that the living allowances given the General Authorities, which are very modest in comparison with executive compensation in industry and the professions, come from this business income and not from the tithing of the people....

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1985/10/questions-and-answers?lang=eng

 

M.

[prisonchaplain]

My broader question to all is, are their sources for discussing questions about the church or the faith, that are pretty widely accepted, other than lds.org? 

[Maureen]

I just read this article:

 

It was just this past June when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints officially announced it has approved the centralized endorsement of all chaplaincies, including female chaplains.

 

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/lds-church-approves-centralized-endorsement-of-all-chaplains-including-women/article_6fb35da1-7128-5b06-971d-c4ffcf48ee83.html

 

I didn't realize that the LDS church had so many chaplains.

 

M.

[Silhouette]

I read this article just now, and I'm gobsmacked. I had no idea this was happening. When did this start? This is the first I have ever heard of such a thing.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I just read this article:

 

It was just this past June when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints officially announced it has approved the centralized endorsement of all chaplaincies, including female chaplains.

 

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/lds-church-approves-centralized-endorsement-of-all-chaplains-including-women/article_6fb35da1-7128-5b06-971d-c4ffcf48ee83.html

 

I didn't realize that the LDS church had so many chaplains.

 

M.

 

This is so cool.  I had never heard of this before---thanks Maureen for bringing it to our attention!   I'm really happy to see it.  It reminds me that there is more diversity in the church than I am sometimes aware of and that idea pleases me greatly!

 

ETA: I shared this on my FB page!  :)

Edited October 14, 2014 by LiterateParakeet

[mordorbund]

To add to Maureen's link, Another conference talk that emphasizes the "modest" part of President Hinckley's statement: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1979/10/the-gift-of-the-holy-ghost?lang=eng

 

When I think of what our people do in this Church without having to be paid with money for what they do, I know that it is a tremendous thing. You take the General Authorities here on the stand. When they were called to be General Authorities, there was nothing said to them about whether they would receive an allowance to live on. I remember when I was back in Washington, just after President Benson was called to be a member of the Twelve and he had not yet been out West to be ordained and set apart. I was then the Presiding Bishop and attended his stake conference. And he said: “Bishop, will there be any provision that we will have a living while we are serving as General Authorities of the Church?” And I said: “Well, there will be a little allowance. But,” I said, “you will have to live differently than you have done back here unless you have got a little bit tucked away!” I happen to know of an offer that was made to him while he was in the Department of Agriculture that, in those days, was a tremendous offer; and he passed that by to come back here to be a member of the Quorum without any assurance that he would have an allowance given to him.

 

I think of when President Tanner was called to be one of the General Authorities. President McKay told us that he was in line to become the prime minister of Canada and that he was at the head of several great industrial organizations in Canada. I am sure that if he were to stand here now, he would tell you that when President McKay asked him to be one of the General Authorities, he did not discuss with him anything about an allowance that he would receive.

 

I could go on down, and each one of these men could tell you how they gave up their businesses and their professions, and why did they do it? Because they had received the gift of the Holy Ghost that made it possible for them to do what Jesus advised: “Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you” (Matt. 6:33).

 

When I was the Presiding Bishop and one of my counselors, Bishop Ashton, died, I asked for Brother [Thorpe B.] Isaacson. He was then at the head of a large insurance business that he owned and operated. And when President George Albert Smith asked him if he was willing to serve as my counselor, he said: “Yes, but I would like to go back East and arrange with my company to appoint a manager, because you know in the insurance business so much depends on renewals. But,” he said, “if they won’t let me do it, I’ll tell them to take the business.” I happen to know that the tithing he had been paying was just about the equivalent of what his allowance was when he became a counselor in the Bishopric! And not only that, for the first six months after he received his allowance, he turned it back to the Church. He said: “I’ve never been on a mission, so it is about time I did something.”

 

Now if you could hear from each one of these men! For instance, I had a business with ten men and two girls working for me, and the President of the Church sent my father over to see how I would like to go to California and preside over the Hollywood Stake. I won’t take time to tell you all the details. In sixty days I’d sold my business, I’d sold my beautiful home, and moved my family down to California with no allowance to live on. I had to start all over again.

 

 

[prisonchaplain]

I was aware that there are female LDS chaplains who serve in hospitals.  Great article!

[Blackmarch]

www.fairmormon.org is a good place as well

[prisonchaplain]

Is fairmormon.org an organization that most LDS recognize?  I'm familiar with it, because I heard about it here.  What of those who seldom engage in apologetics, or sustained interfaith dialogue?

[estradling75]

Is fairmormon.org an organization that most LDS recognize?  I'm familiar with it, because I heard about it here.  What of those who seldom engage in apologetics, or sustained interfaith dialogue?

 

 

The Organization is not really talked about or mentioned in church if that is what you are asking...  Basically an individual LDS knowing about fairmormon.org will depend entirely on how much outside information they have been exposed to. 

[mordorbund]

My broader question to all is, are their sources for discussing questions about the church or the faith, that are pretty widely accepted, other than lds.org? 

 

LDS.ORG would be the primary source. Within that, a focus on conference talks, lesson manuals, and magazines would be your main focus. Procedurally, the Church Handbook of Instruction (also on lds.org) is a reliable resource. If it's a Church teaching or practice, lds.org is a pretty safe bet. I find that most of the answers members look for (if they can be found) can be found on lds.org.

[prisonchaplain]

Mordobund confirms my sense of the matter.