'Poor people don't know how to cook'

[Blackmarch]

So, here we have it. The reason why poor people starve. It's not that the poor can't afford food, it's that they don't know what to do with it, when they have it. Clearly starvation is the fault of the poor, and down to their own ignorance, and nothing to do with the wealthy hogging the resources the poor need to stay alive with.

 

2RM's poverty pasta sauce. Serves 4.

Price per serving £0.30p. Maybe $0.50, with you.

 

2 medium onions, chopped

4 Garlic cloves, crushed

2 400g cans of chopped tomatoes.

A good dash of cooking oil.

 

optional extras; bacon, mushrooms, haricot beans.

 

Fry the onions and garlic in the oil 'til fragrant and translucent. Add the tomatoes, and simmer for quarter of an hour. Taste, and salt to taste. Meanwhile cook your pasta - conchiglie, spaghetti, tagliattelli, penne, whatever, according to the packet instructions.

 

Serve with grated cheese (doesn't necessarily need to be parmesan) and fresh ground black pepper.

 

Hope you try it, hope you like it.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

lol looks good.

[Blackmarch]

the OP reminded me about the story of "Stone Soup"

[2ndRateMind]

The OP referenced an article with an English politician talking about "the poor." In context, this obviously meant the English poor, not starving children in sub-Saharan Africa. It seemed reasonable to generalize this to the socioeconomically disadvantaged in Western democracies. Not sure why this is so absurdly provincial.

 

For that matter, since poverty is always a relative measure and not an absolute, I don't quite see what's so absurdly provincial in your example. If a family is too poor even to afford any gas to power their automobile -- not unable to power it a lot so they can drive all over the place, but unable to power it at all so they cannot use it to perform basic functions like procure food at the grocery store two miles away and thus not easily accessible in two feet of snow -- then compared with a typical middle-class American family, they are indeed quite poor.

 

 

Yes, I think the Baroness in question was talking about the English poor. As such, she was talking about people who, generally, have televisions, a warm, dry place to live, a mobile phone, maybe even a computer. These people are the relatively poor. They are relatively poor because they fall considerably below the prosperity of their average countryman contemporary. I would like them all better off, but feel that is a matter for them, and the extent of their enterprise.

 

What bothers me, globally, is the problem of the absolutely poor; the people without enough wealth to sustain their own lives, and that of their families. In this sense, absolute poverty is a real concept. If you can't survive on what you own, and can realistically expect to earn, then you are, by any measure, absolutely poor. 

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited December 9, 2014 by 2ndRateMind

[Guest]

Well, I just don't think some of you 'get' poverty, at all. It is a mind-numbing, soul-destroying, body-rotting condition. It's taking the risk of drinking sewer water, because you can't afford expensive bottled water. It's being unable to work, not because you don't want to, but because you haven't eaten yesterday, or the day before, and your stamina is gone. It's watching your children die of some condition as simple as diarrhoea, because you can't afford the medications that would save their lives.

 

And it's entirely socially constructed, by those who put about the message that the poor are poor because they don't deserve wealth, and rich people do. And entirely within the grasp of this generation to end, if we have the will and grace to do that.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

I am sorry 2RM, in my humble opinion, you're the one that don't 'get' poverty at all.  And your statement that your idea of poverty is taking the risk of drinking sewer water because you can't afford bottled water is... frankly, funny.

 

You say that not drinking bottled water, not being able to work because you didn't eat for 3 days, and watching children die of some illness... is mind-numbing... you have no idea what poverty means.  All you're talking about is some rich people who, all of a sudden, found themselves in the bottom of the barrel and have no clue what to do.

 

The POOR people don't find these things mind-numbing.  These are just another day in life and move on... because, they are born to these conditions and have never experienced anything else!   So, they can't even conceive of spending half a quid on bottled water... heck, they've figured that if you dig deep enough you can find water... or if you stand against somebody's rooftop when it's raining you can collect water.  Or if you take sewer water and boil it, it takes out the stanky smell... These guys are so used to these conditions they don't see anything wrong with sewer water...

 

... and 3 days of no eating and they are too weak to work?  That's unconceivable to them!  Do you know that the current lead singer of Journey (Arnel Pineda) grew up homeless in the streets of the Philippines and he, at age 12, would have 1 soup cracker in his pocket that he got from selling scrap tin cans that he finds by digging through trash piles... and that is his food for the WEEK?  Scrap cans is hard to come buy - there's a lot of competition from the other street kids for those!  Manny Pacquiao - the Filipino boxer - same thing.  He's a street kid too.  These guys are multi-millionaires now BECAUSE of that experience.  They learned to survive in the harshest of conditions that getting punched in the face 200 times in a 12-round boxing fight is nothing!

 

My mother's hometown is this poor fishing village in a Philippine island... my grandfather died in WWII and women in the Philippines in those days are not able to compete for jobs so my grandmother was destitute.  Anyway, they survived those conditions and my mother was mainly supported by the Catholic Church and was able to go to college and was able to rise above that poverty.  She married my dad, moved to the city, and we lived a comfortable life.  So, we would spend the summer in my grandma's house.  Most of the people there in those days rely on the sea for their daily sustenance.  There are these shanties being built using scraps right on the water.  This shanty in this picture is a MANSION... those guys found A LOT of scraps - this is a "city dweller".  Fishing village dweller would have shanties 3 times smaller than this because scraps are hard to come by in the little towns.  There would be at least 3 generations of people living in these shanties.

 

So, my grandpa (grandma's brother) is a fisherman in the fishing village.  He basically was the main supporter for my grandma and her 3 kids throughout their lives.  He goes out to fish every morning so they can eat that day.  But, my grandpa is fortunate because he has an important skillset that he learned while serving the military during WWII (we lost that war against the Japanese which decimated the military) he learned to make a fishing net and he learned how to build a boat!  So my grandpa was able to have these things from the limited scraps that is hard to come by.   He had a bigger chance of catching fish and have enough to sell in the neighboring town to get other things besides.

 

Anyway, there has been many kids from the village, like my mom, who moved to the city and would send money back to the village.  So many families were able to improve on their lot in life.  But, many, still, are living in those shanties.  So, you might ask - but why did they not help those families in the shanties?   Because... the people in the shanties don't think they need help!

 

Yes, I know your eyes are probably bugging out if you read this far... so, let me relate one very memorable day of my summers in the village... being the daughter of relatively successful parents, I am outfitted in Nike shoes and a nice watch that I was very proud of... my grandpa would wake me up before the sun rises and we would go fishing for our daily sustenance (yes, we lived the village life when we spend summers there).  My grandpa would take me on his boat (similar to that one in the picture - there's no engine, we paddle paddle paddle paddle... for hours) to harvest the fishing net.  Well, that day, the fishing net was empty - which is not unusual, so we cast our fishing poles (this means we get to stay out longer)... well, as luck would have it, we caught nada.  Zilch.  So we go home around noon empty-handed.  We pass by the shanties on the way home and one of the people in the shanty saw that we had an empty bucket.  So he waves us over and invited us to have lunch with his family... because they have a fish!  Yes, this is a 3-generation family sharing one fish but they feel blessed because they have a fish and we have none, so they want to share their fortune with us.

 

So, imagine this - I'm in my Nike shoes, reeking "city girl" aura, and it doesn't even register in his brain that I could be more fortunate than he is... no.  Because, my bucket is empty, so to him, I would be hungry that day, so he needed to share his family's bounty... He does not feel poor.  Not at all.  He feels blessed... in that shanty... with all those mouths to feed from his daily fishing... and he is very happy.  For a surety, his lot is better than Arnel Pineda's or Manny Pacquiao's.

 

That day is still very clear in my mind until today.  The fishing village is not really a fishing village anymore.  A typhoon wiped the place out and in its place, a small thriving city came to life...

Edited December 9, 2014 by anatess

[2ndRateMind]

Thanks, Anatess, for that testimony. I cannot claim ever to have have been absolutely poor, only relatively poor. But that is enough to persuade me that absolutely poor should never happen, in a moral world.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Traveler]

It does not seem to matter that much where I visit - but I seem to find two different elements of our human society.  I will call one element that part of society that draws of their livelihood from the abundance of nature and those that draw of their livelihood from the pride of humanity.

 

Those that plant and labor in gardens or similar such things always seem happy to share of what they receive for their labors.  But those that invest and deal with money and work in institutions of money always seem happy to keep and not share of what they receive for their labors. 

[2ndRateMind]

I think this is a perceptive comment, and have been trying to figure out why it should be. Maybe because those who grow or rear things are confident in their skills of mind and body, and know they can rely on them, and mother Gaia, for future production. Whereas those who need 'the next deal' to supplement that bonus, can never be sure that that deal will happen.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Guest]

Thanks, Anatess, for that testimony. I cannot claim ever to have have been absolutely poor, only relatively poor. But that is enough to persuade me that absolutely poor should never happen, in a moral world.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

 

I think this is a perceptive comment, and have been trying to figure out why it should be. Maybe because those who grow or rear things are confident in their skills of mind and body, and know they can rely on them, and mother Gaia, for future production. Whereas those who need 'the next deal' to supplement that bonus, can never be sure that that deal will happen.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

This is what I'm trying to tell you... These people do not consider themselves poor.  You simply judged them as such.  I wish I could mind meld with you and give you that life in that fishing village so you will understand what I'm talking about... because, I really want you to understand that how much money you have, how big your house, how many cars you drive... does not determine whether you are poor or not.

 

We watched the wedding of Lady Diana to Prince Charles while I was in that fishing village... we had almost the whole village crowded into this guy's house... most of them are peeping through the windows because there's no room.  That wedding was so grand and everybody was in such high spirits having witnessed it.  Not a single one of them berated the riches of the royals as a measure of their poverty.  Nope.  They love Lady Diana because she was a school teacher and they have great respect for school teachers.  Money to them does not hold that much meaning.

Edited December 9, 2014 by anatess

[PolarVortex]

I know many people (some of whom are my relatives) who live in poverty but did not choose to be poor, nor do they continue to choose to be poor.  They made unwise choices when they were young, sometimes with limited information.  Our current government and welfare state often do not insulate people from the consequences of their bad decisions, so it's easy to do.  

[Traveler]

For the record - I learned from my father and can teach anyone willing to listen and apply the easy and simple principles of how to be rich within 5 minutes.  The strange truth is that most people do not really want to be rich but will accept the unlikely possibility if it should somehow happen by accident.

[rfburn]

[...]nothing to do with the wealthy hogging the resources the poor need to stay alive with.

Have you not heard?

President Johnson began a war on poverty.

He brought us the Great Society, to improve upon the FDR New Deal.

We love us some redistribution of resources and wealth here in America.

And its worked out just wonderfully so far.

What could possibly go wrong in a society, when by threat of force a Gov takes the fruit of someones labor, and provides it to another?

Utopia, especially one created by stealing from others, is a myth.

We'd do well to stop chasing it.

Edited December 10, 2014 by rfburn

[2ndRateMind]

Utopia is not a myth. Utopia is a real possibility, if we all build it, not for ourselves, but each for each other.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Vort]

Utopia is not a myth. Utopia is a real possibility, if we all build it, not for ourselves, but each for each other.

 

Utopia is not a "myth". It is a fiction, invented in the early 16th century by Thomas More.

 

There are no utopian societies, but according to LDS belief, there have been. They are called "Zion". They are inhabited by the pure in heart. They are the natural dwelling places of the people of God, those who have overcome the natural man. Thus, they are not "natural" places in the sense of human  nature, but of Godly nature.

 

Such a "utopia" is impossible to construct in our world (i.e. society). We Americans and other westerners live now in a society probably as close to this "utopia" as is possible, yet we are indeed far from it.

[2ndRateMind]

Vort, my dear chap, I always respect your opinions, but have to differ with you on this. Firstly that utopia is impossible, (anything is impossible if you believe it to be impossible) and secondly that westerners live in a society as close to utopia as possible. As long as we consider our own desires more important than our fellows' needs, we are nowhere near. But we could be, if we only put aside the free-market ideology of private selfish greed = public good.

 

Best wishes, 2RM

Edited December 10, 2014 by 2ndRateMind

[Guest]

Vort, my dear chap, I always respect your opinions, but have to differ with you on this. Firstly that utopia is impossible, (anything is impossible if you believe it to be impossible) and secondly that westerners live in a society as close to utopia as possible. As long as we consider our own desires more important than our fellows' needs, we are nowhere near. But we could be, if we only put aside the free-market ideology of private selfish greed = public good.

 

Best wishes, 2RM

 

2RM, you really have a terrible perception of Westerners....

 

But, that beside the point - "Consider our own desires" is a natural instinct within mortal generational humans and any other member of the animal kingdom.  It is there instinctively as a survival mechanism.  Without that selfish desire, the human population will become extinct in a matter of generations.

 

Free-market ideology does not, in any way, equate selfish greed to public good.  Free-market ideology simply takes into account this survival instinct of the mortal human and instead of trying to squash it (an impossible task unless we can get all humans to evolve out of the animal kingdom), use it so it ceases to become a hindrance.

[estradling75]

Vort, my dear chap, I always respect your opinions, but have to differ with you on this. Firstly that utopia is impossible, (anything is impossible if you believe it to be impossible) and secondly that westerners live in a society as close to utopia as possible. As long as we consider our own desires more important than our fellows' needs, we are nowhere near. But we could be, if we only put aside the free-market ideology of private selfish greed = public good.

 

Best wishes, 2RM

 

2ndRateMind....  You really don't understand the history of the group you are talking to here (which Vort is a part)

 

This Zion Vort  talked about... We LDS have tried to establish it... repeatedly...  We failed..  Repeatedly...  That makes us some of the best experts on how one fails at establishing a "utopia."

 

You say that getting rid of selfish greed would be necessary.  I would agree...  Then I would ask how do you get rid of it in other people. People whom don't necessary agree with you or your ideas. You need a much more practical plan then simply wishing it so.

[paulsifer42]

Anatess, thanks for sharing your story.  Well worth the read.

[Traveler]

Utopia is not a myth. Utopia is a real possibility, if we all build it, not for ourselves, but each for each other.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

Utopia is a myth to all those that think someone else need or must to provide it for them.  If you think someone other than you must change in order for utopia to occur - you believe a utopian myth.

[Guest Godless]

Ironically, one of my most difficult periods of financial hardship came while I was working as a cook at a fairly exceptional seafood restaurant. I was living on Chef Boyarde and vienna sausage even though I knew how to make complex (and very tasty) dinner entrees.