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Posted (edited)

I can't see any reason for forgiveness in all cases. Quite often I watch those American series like "Autopsie - Mysteriöse Todesfälle" or "Medical Detectives / Forensic Files - Geheimnisse der Gerichtsmedizin" etc. on German tv where they show authentic capital crimes and how the police and the FBI at last could get the murderer, sometimes even years and years later by modern DNA methods. I repeatedly went to the websites of the US state where it happened (Department of Corrections) just to get convinced if that was really true, because sometimes I couldn't believe those cruelful crimes were reality.

 

But the cases have been authentic. Recently there was an old case from the ninetees and it had happened in Florida. I won't tell here what exactly he did and how he did it, but he murdered at least four women. He was executed after seventeen years in Florida's death row when finally the Governor signed a execution warrant. I went to Florida's official web site of the Department of Corrections to see how things had proceeded in that case and to get more back ground information, and found his name was authentic and he's been executed by a lethal injection the last century.

 

I remember the words the judge spoke in that authentic case (live recording) when the trial had come to its end and the sentence was announced: (paraphrased):  "Mr. X, you have forfeited not only the right to live among us, but also the right to live. May God give mercy on you."

Edited by JimmiGerman
Posted (edited)

"I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men."

- Doctrine & Covenants 64:10

 

Even murderers, false priests, fornicators, ect.

 

Even murderers...? Your quotation of that text line seems cynical to me, because you are talking about capital crimes as if they were nothing else but frauds or thefts. That's blasphemous.

 

And be sure I haven't overlooked your allusion. But you certainly forgot to mention child abusers in priest vestment... the big light goes on? 
 
Remember Matthew 18:6 ...  smiley-shocked011.gif
Edited by JimmiGerman
Posted

Even murderers...? Your quotation of this text line seems cynical to me, because you are talking about capital crimes as if they were nothing else but frauds or thefts. That's blasphemous.

And be sure I have not overlooked your allusion. But you certainly forgot to mention child abusers in priest vestment... the big light goes on?

Remember Matthew 18:6 ...

Yes, Jimmi.. Even murderers... Even the murderer that kills your kin. We are to forgive everyone - no exceptions. Christ is the only one to judge them.

But, forgiveness doesn't mean you don't put them in prison for life. It just means, you can't put them there for reasons of revenge or hatred or any other reason apart from love and service to the people that the murderer will put in danger as well as love and service to the murderer himself by preventing him from committing more sin.

Posted

Yes, Jimmi.. Even murderers... Even the murderer that kills your kin. We are to forgive everyone - no exceptions. Christ is the only one to judge them.

But, forgiveness doesn't mean you don't put them in prison for life. It just means, you can't put them there for reasons of revenge or hatred or any other reason apart from love and service to the people that the murderer will put in danger as well as love and service to the murderer himself by preventing him from committing more sin.

 

 

It's magic - Whenever I see your profile picture I can't say anything against your words...

Posted

It's magic - Whenever I see your profile picture I can't say anything against your words...

 

I used to use an avatar photograph of a pretty young Icelandic woman with large, brown eyes. I noticed that people treated me much more politely and carefully, even when I got rather blunt. I thought it was pretty funny, but it left me feeling a bit dishonest. So I would sometimes go a bit out of my way to try to emphasize that the avatar was not a photograph of myself, usually by emphasizing my middle-aged male identity.

Posted

It's magic - Whenever I see your profile picture I can't say anything against your words...

 

 

I used to use an avatar photograph of a pretty young Icelandic woman with large, brown eyes. I noticed that people treated me much more politely and carefully, even when I got rather blunt. I thought it was pretty funny, but it left me feeling a bit dishonest. So I would sometimes go a bit out of my way to try to emphasize that the avatar was not a photograph of myself, usually by emphasizing my middle-aged male identity.

 

 

I always imagine it is her grand-daughter :)

 

LOL!  The Icelandic woman... I love that Icelandic woman.  Hah hah.  My avatar is a middle-aged Korean woman transformed through gyaru make-up.  It's supposed to be this artistic symbolism of hiding behind the make-up parallel to hiding behind the avatar.

 

Here's the woman without make-up and after make-up:

asian_girls_makeup_14.jpg

 

Screen-Shot-2013-06-14-at-9.55.39-PM.png

 

082.jpg

Posted

I used to use an avatar photograph of a pretty young Icelandic woman with large, brown eyes. I noticed that people treated me much more politely and carefully, even when I got rather blunt. I thought it was pretty funny, but it left me feeling a bit dishonest. So I would sometimes go a bit out of my way to try to emphasize that the avatar was not a photograph of myself, usually by emphasizing my middle-aged male identity.

 

Ah, man. I should have used a pretty girl picture for my avatar. Just think of all the conflict I could have avoided.

Posted (edited)

Forgiveness is not for the other person.  It is to lift the burden from you.  And it doesn't mean they are able to continue with blessings.  I don't equate forgiveness with progression.  That still requires repentence.

 

I'm rather sure I wouldn't forgive in any case. And no one should have to take this burdon from me, then.

 

On March 6, 1981, the third day of the trial, Marianne Bachmeier smuggled a Beretta into the courtroom of Lübeck District Court and shot the alleged killer of her daughter Anna, Klaus Grabowski, in the back. She aimed the gun at Grabowski's back and pulled the trigger eight times. Seven of the shots hit, and the 35-year-old defendant was killed instantly.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianne_Bachmeier

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by JimmiGerman
Posted

Ah, man. I should have used a pretty girl picture for my avatar. Just think of all the conflict I could have avoided.

 

You're maybe overseeing all the conflict that might have come instead over you.  :lol:

Posted

Ah, man. I should have used a pretty girl picture for my avatar. Just think of all the conflict I could have avoided.

 

I'm telling you, it works.

Posted

 

I'm rather sure I wouldn't forgive in any case. And no one should have to take this burdon from me, then.

 

On March 6, 1981, the third day of the trial, Marianne Bachmeier smuggled a Beretta into the courtroom of Lübeck District Court and shot the alleged killer of her daughter Anna, Klaus Grabowski, in the back. She aimed the gun at Grabowski's back and pulled the trigger eight times. Seven of the shots hit, and the 35-year-old defendant was killed instantly.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianne_Bachmeier

 

 

 

That's a terrible burden you carry.  Forgiveness lifts the burden from you.   I am reminded how many times Jesus says, put your burden on to Me.  Holding hatred only weighs you down.  It does nothing to change the situation, or change anything about what happened, or even what will happen to the person/people who you chose not to forgive.  That really, to me, is the critical lesson of the Gospel.

Posted (edited)

That's a terrible burden you carry.  Forgiveness lifts the burden from you.   I am reminded how many times Jesus says, put your burden on to Me.  Holding hatred only weighs you down.  It does nothing to change the situation, or change anything about what happened, or even what will happen to the person/people who you chose not to forgive.  That really, to me, is the critical lesson of the Gospel.

 

 

I was talking hypothetically, because I haven't been involved personally in the events I've posted in the case of Marianne Bachmeier. But I remember that case very well. I think vengeance would always change the situation,  and it would change it in quite an effective way. Sorry, I know you will be concerned about my words.

Edited by JimmiGerman
Posted

Matt 5

 

Love Your Enemies

(Leviticus 24:17-23; Luke 6:27-36)

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Posted

LOL!  The Icelandic woman... I love that Icelandic woman.  Hah hah.  My avatar is a middle-aged Korean woman transformed through gyaru make-up.  It's supposed to be this artistic symbolism of hiding behind the make-up parallel to hiding behind the avatar.

 

Here's the woman without make-up and after make-up:

asian_girls_makeup_14.jpg

 

Screen-Shot-2013-06-14-at-9.55.39-PM.png

 

082.jpg

You can do all this just with makeup?! Her chin in the make up photos looks quite different, sharper and more pointy and her lips look flatter and thinner especially in the third pair of pics

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