Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I'm just flabbergasted that influential people are actually very interested in getting to the bottom of this. There is NO PRAYER whatsoever that Colts would have won against the Pats on this game. Yet, journalists are digging and digging to get to the bottom of this. In the meantime, Yemen just got taken over by Al-Qaeda and the American-allied Saudi King just passed to be succeeded by some 80-year-old certifiably senile guy... while America fusses over Deflated Footballs... and no journalist is interested in digging the connections from the Arab Spring to today's foreign news and how America is complicit with that... Quote
Palerider Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I'm just flabbergasted that influential people are actually very interested in getting to the bottom of this. There is NO PRAYER whatsoever that Colts would have won against the Pats on this game. Yet, journalists are digging and digging to get to the bottom of this. In the meantime, Yemen just got taken over by Al-Qaeda and the American-allied Saudi King just passed to be succeeded by some 80-year-old certifiably senile guy... while America fusses over Deflated Footballs... and no journalist is interested in digging the connections from the Arab Spring to today's foreign news and how America is complicit with that...There was plenty of uproar over Benghazi....but our current leader and Miss Hillary kept telling us it was no big deal. I don't agree that America is not in a uproar over the events you mentioned above....there are plenty of citizens worked up. The media on the other hand thinks differently. For the Record....the Colts would never have beaten the Patriots. My beef is still over the Ravens game. The Baltimore Ravens should be in the Super Bowl. That's the team that got cheated mirkwood and prisonchaplain 2 Quote
prisonchaplain Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Posted January 24, 2015 Anatess, I can be upset with the news, not think sports is very important, and still want justice. If the Patriots cheated they should be punished. If a far superior team gets disqualified because they cheated, what a great lesson for young people! Just ask the late Richard Nixon. Palerider, Leah and mirkwood 3 Quote
Palerider Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Anatess, I can be upset with the news, not think sports is very important, and still want justice. If the Patriots cheated they should be punished. If a far superior team gets disqualified because they cheated, what a great lesson for young people! Just ask the late Richard Nixon.I agree.....so many things to be in a uproar over right at this very moment. It seems the lesson we are teaching our kids today either in sports or politics is....it's not a big deal.....everyone does it.....who cares. Leah and mirkwood 2 Quote
mirkwood Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 There is right and wrong no matter what the topic. We should always support the right. Palerider, prisonchaplain and Leah 3 Quote
Palerider Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 There is right and wrong no matter what the topic. We should always support the right.Amen to that Quote
Guest Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Except that we are teaching the children that whoever you accuse is guilty if you can get the media to pounce on it. Whereas, if there's no media hoopla then meh... who the heck cares who is guilty or not.Fact remains.., there is no proof that any wrongdoing in the part of the Pats has come out. Only people crucifying Brady on the media. But, that doesn't matter to anybody. Not even on this thread. Quote
Palerider Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Except that we are teaching the children that whoever you accuse is guilty if you can get the media to pounce on it. Whereas, if there's no media hoopla then meh... who the heck cares who is guilty or not.Fact remains.., there is no proof that any wrongdoing in the part of the Pats has come out. Only people crucifying Brady on the media. But, that doesn't matter to anybody. Not even on this thread.I don't agree totally with what you said. ...with all the articles and opinion articles I have read I feel there is blame to go around. Someone or several knew what was going on and now nobody is going to take the rap for it. The NFL isn't going to do anything. They will sweep it under the rug. The NFL needs to clean up their act. With this incident the Patriot organization needs punished. But, nothing will happen to them. mirkwood 1 Quote
mirkwood Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Someone or several knew what was going on and now nobody is going to take the rap for it. Brady/Patriots not knowing the poundage was off on those footballs would be like my trigger pull poundage being changed and me not noticing during a qualifier. Not going to happen. The player who made the interception knew the ball felt wrong. There is no way an NFL QB would not notice. Palerider 1 Quote
Palerider Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Brady/Patriots not knowing the poundage was off on those footballs would be like my trigger pull poundage being changed and me not noticing during a qualifier. Not going to happen. The player who made the interception knew the ball felt wrong. There is no way an NFL QB would not notice.I agree and right now you have Belicheat and Brady playing politics....answering questions and not really saying anything. I do not believe the NFL will say anything until after the Super Bowl. I also feel the previous Super Bowls the Patriots did win are tainted due to the Spygate. It's very interesting that they have not won a Super Bowl since they got caught cheating. mirkwood 1 Quote
prisonchaplain Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Posted January 26, 2015 I'm confused by this. The decision is not one made in a court of law. A judgment call can be made. If too many balls were too deflated, and those who have a history of knowing, smirk and say, "I don't know nothin'...so PROVE IT!" then maybe it's time to wipe the smirk off their face and bring some adult consequences to this juvenility. Entertainers get crucified for expressing unpopular opinions, so how is it that this blatant cheating by the Patriots organization is not being punished??? Hey, I don't know who exactly did it. However, in sports it's not uncommon for a whole team to be punished for the sins of one or two anonymous members. BTW, I'm selling Hawks vs. Colts Super Bowl shirts if anyone is interested.... Except that we are teaching the children that whoever you accuse is guilty if you can get the media to pounce on it. Whereas, if there's no media hoopla then meh... who the heck cares who is guilty or not.Fact remains.., there is no proof that any wrongdoing in the part of the Pats has come out. Only people crucifying Brady on the media. But, that doesn't matter to anybody. Not even on this thread. mirkwood and Palerider 2 Quote
mirkwood Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/26/sports/football/it-doesnt-take-a-scientist-to-sense-a-shift-in-momentum.html?_r=1 Quote
Palerider Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/26/sports/football/it-doesnt-take-a-scientist-to-sense-a-shift-in-momentum.html?_r=1Yes....I heard about this and read it. Just like Brady a few weeks when first asked about it....he laughed. In his news conference the other day he wasn't laughing. He had a big shovel trying to dig his way out. Lol Quote
Guest Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Yes....I heard about this and read it. Just like Brady a few weeks when first asked about it....he laughed. In his news conference the other day he wasn't laughing. He had a big shovel trying to dig his way out. Lol He laughed about it because it was laughable. The only reason somebody checked the footballs because somebody else - The Ravens - whined about it to the Colts. Otherwise, the Colts wouldn't even know to check the footballs not passing regs. The refs hold the football all game long just as much as the Pats. You're telling me the refs don't know how a football feels when it's their job to make sure it is reg? A football is a range. 12.5-13.5 psi or some such. The media and even Brady explained the method of picking footballs (something that even my husband who is a big football fan is clueless about). The refs check the psi in a temp-controlled environment - let's say 70 degrees as my husband prefers it. It is winter in New England. The temp was - what, 40? 50? outside. With the balls sitting out for 2 hours. Basic law of physics - which everybody should know who has passed high school - the poundage will drop. Take a 12.5 psi'd football from a 70 degree room to a 40 degree room, the poundage on that football applying the Basic Gas Law of Physics (PV=nRT), it is not anywhere close to beyond reason (apply the math if you like) for the football to drop by as much as 2 psi. So, if the ball psi'd at 12.5 initially - it will drop below regs in the cold. If it started at 13.5 psi, it may or may not drop below regs. The ball handlers in the Pats org knows Brady likes the ball on the lower end of the scale. That's the REASON that rule of bringing your own football to the game came into existence in the first place - Brady and Peyton asked for that rule a few years ago to account for the different preferences of quarterbacks - you bring your own balls to the game that you prefer to play with - the refs inspect it - and they all go to play - nobody gets an edge with a QB player ending up with the other QB's preferenced ball. So, if I was a Patriots ball handler, I will make them all 12.5 at inspection. As Brady explained - on the field, Brady goes through the footballs that has already been inspected and goes by feel to choose the balls he wants to go to play. They will be the lesser psi'd footballs as he has expressed that is his preference. Now... prove to me again that the Colts (or even the Ravens) are not just whiny baby sore losers with everybody just following media bias like lemmings? The media is out to get the NFL. It's the last bastion of "anti-feminists with their bibles and their guns" besides NASCAR. They will dog the NFL 100 times more than they will dog Benghazi. They can't touch NASCAR. It's not a big media-hype type of sport. NFL on the other is easy potatoes especially with big fat bulls-eye targets in NFL players. Edited January 26, 2015 by anatess Quote
MarginOfError Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 I want to preface my post by saying that I grew up in New England and am a bigger fan of the New England Patriots than I am of any other football team (I've become more indifferent to sports in the past few years, but still maintain a casual interest). A professor in Boston did the math, and figured out that in order for these balls to have deflated by 2 PSI due to temperature changes, the balls would have had to been inflated with air heated to 91 degrees farenheit. So there are really only three possibilities in play here 1. The balls were inflated in a heated room 2. The balls were inflated with heated air3. The balls were deflated after inspection There is no situation at play that would plausibly explain 11 of 12 balls being 2 PSI below the minimum standard that doesn't involve someone knowing that this would happen. That being said, based on what I've heard about the rules, inflating the balls with heated air prior to inspection doesn't seem to be technically against the rules (unethical and cheap, sure, but not technically forbidden). If the Patriots were to be clever enough to leverage air temperature to their advantage, I commend them on their creativity, but they should lose some draft picks and pay some fines anyway as it seems pretty obvious that the intent was for the balls to be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI for the duration of the game. If they determine that someone willfully deflated the balls, I'd start calling for suspensions. But simply put, there is no way I can believe that there wasn't a deliberate action to cause these balls to deflate. mirkwood 1 Quote
MarginOfError Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 I agree and right now you have Belicheat and Brady playing politics....answering questions and not really saying anything. I do not believe the NFL will say anything until after the Super Bowl. I also feel the previous Super Bowls the Patriots did win are tainted due to the Spygate. It's very interesting that they have not won a Super Bowl since they got caught cheating. I don't think this is a fair characterization. Call me a homer if you will, but since 2007, the Patriots performance has been 2007: AFC Champions (spygate)2008: Failed to make playoffs (Brady was out most of the season)2009: Lost Wild Card Playoff2010: Lost Divisional Playoff (after 1st round Bye)2011: AFC Champions2012: Lost AFC Championship2013: Lost AFC Championship2014: AFC Champions So they've been the AFC champion 2 out of the 7 years following spygate, been to the AFC championship game 4 of the 7 years, been to the playoffs 6 of the 7 years. And let's be honest--by the time you reach the AFC championship, the teams are so good that more often than not, who wins the game is a crap shoot. Quote
Guest Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 I want to preface my post by saying that I grew up in New England and am a bigger fan of the New England Patriots than I am of any other football team (I've become more indifferent to sports in the past few years, but still maintain a casual interest). A professor in Boston did the math, and figured out that in order for these balls to have deflated by 2 PSI due to temperature changes, the balls would have had to been inflated with air heated to 91 degrees farenheit. So there are really only three possibilities in play here 1. The balls were inflated in a heated room 2. The balls were inflated with heated air3. The balls were deflated after inspection There is no situation at play that would plausibly explain 11 of 12 balls being 2 PSI below the minimum standard that doesn't involve someone knowing that this would happen. That being said, based on what I've heard about the rules, inflating the balls with heated air prior to inspection doesn't seem to be technically against the rules (unethical and cheap, sure, but not technically forbidden). If the Patriots were to be clever enough to leverage air temperature to their advantage, I commend them on their creativity, but they should lose some draft picks and pay some fines anyway as it seems pretty obvious that the intent was for the balls to be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI for the duration of the game. If they determine that someone willfully deflated the balls, I'd start calling for suspensions. But simply put, there is no way I can believe that there wasn't a deliberate action to cause these balls to deflate. Who in Boston? The problem with mathematicians is they calculate in absolute conditions. That is - a ball is sitting in the lab without ever getting 5 250-lb football players piling on top of a leather ball that is held together by stitches. Now, if it was a car tire, we'd be talking something different. And by the way, they weren't all 2 psi short. They were 1 to 2 psi under. Because, if you account for the temperature and atmospheric pressure indoor and outdoor, you can come pretty close to 2psi delta. That's not counting the change in atmospheric pressure throughout the game and the pounding a football gets on the field. A ball measured at 12.5 psi in temperatures significantly higher than the field temperature will be non-regulation when it is played on the field. That is fact. Even your car tire will drop pressure. So, really, the ONLY thing I am waiting for is for somebody anywhere tied to the game to tell me what the pressure of the Colts footballs ended up as. Or any cold weather game for that matter including the Ravens. And for anybody to claim that in any of the cold weather games any of the Patriots played against - that the opposing team had no underinflated balls checked during the game. And, I would like to know if in any of the games the Patriots played in Florida from pre-season to November, if there has been reports of underinflated footballs. As a matter of fact, I want somebody to tell me in any game played up north in the Play-offs if they have checked any of the balls at all during play and found that they all remained within regulation throughout the life of the first half. Like I said - when you're head of the pack - everybody will be nipping at your heels. Quote
Palerider Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 I don't think this is a fair characterization. Call me a homer if you will, but since 2007, the Patriots performance has been 2007: AFC Champions (spygate)2008: Failed to make playoffs (Brady was out most of the season)2009: Lost Wild Card Playoff2010: Lost Divisional Playoff (after 1st round Bye)2011: AFC Champions2012: Lost AFC Championship2013: Lost AFC Championship2014: AFC Champions So they've been the AFC champion 2 out of the 7 years following spygate, been to the AFC championship game 4 of the 7 years, been to the playoffs 6 of the 7 years. And let's be honest--by the time you reach the AFC championship, the teams are so good that more often than not, who wins the game is a crap shoot.Sorry....i still think it's amazing they have not won a Super Bowl since Spygate. Perhaps they might get their first one this weekend without controversy. I also despise the Patriots mirkwood and MarginOfError 2 Quote
MarginOfError Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 Sorry....i still think it's amazing they have not won a Super Bowl since Spygate. Perhaps they might get their first one this weekend without controversy. I also despise the Patriots yeah, well, I despise your horse! Palerider 1 Quote
Palerider Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 yeah, well, I despise your horse! Lol!!! Quote
prisonchaplain Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Posted January 26, 2015 It sounds like we're down to an argument over whether the Pats were aggressive in pushing the line, and perhaps engaged in marginally questionable antics, or whether this is yet another in a long line of blatant rule-breaking, and that the NFL is just too cowed by the cash cow that is the New Englanders to do anything substantial about it. May the Seahawks win, just to prove that truth, justice and the American way can prevail, in the face of evil. :-) Palerider, Vort and mirkwood 3 Quote
Vort Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 Sorry, PC, but if Truth, Justice, and the American Way are to prevail, I'd rather not waste it on a football game. Quote
Guest Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 Sorry, PC, but if Truth, Justice, and the American Way are to prevail, I'd rather not waste it on a football game. Besides, Truth, Justice, and the American Way is completely bypassed by those who are applying the guilty-until-you-can-prove-innocence crowd. Ferguson, NFL... same thing. You want people to behave the way you want them to, rules and laws don't matter anymore. You just need to get the top youtubers to say it... Quote
Palerider Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 Now it seems a locker room attendant in Pats locker room is going to take the hit for deflating...Deflategate fallout: NFL focusing on Patriots' locker-room attendant mirkwood 1 Quote
Palerider Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 I tried to share the link...its at Fox Sports. Poor locker room guy. Lol Quote
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