Who Is An American?

[Guest the_big_picture]

In the old world its basicly easy, the natives are the ones that always been there. The celts are the irish since the creation of man kind. But America is extremly diffrent, the natives are the indians. But Americans are from the old world, diffrent people of diffrent races all merged together.

But a lot of Americans complain of immigration even if thats what the nation is built on. Its not like Sweden and England that where allies during the crusade in the year 1100. Its a brand new Nation 200 years old, what with todays standard could be the life span of a father and son.

When did a distinction between American and immigrant come? And how can Americans on Idol tell Simon the englishman to go back home to England, and be hostile towards him for not being an American when them themselves have english blood and dont live in a English nation.

What I am saying might sound like babble but it is realy confusing and yet intressting

[CrimsonKairos]

I don't personally know anyone who is against immigration.

I know plenty of people who are against illegal immigration.

Not all Americans have English blood in their veins. In fact, English blood is largely a mixture of Germanic and French descent (thanks to William the Conqueror and the Saxons).

[Fiannan]

I don't personally know anyone who is against immigration.

I know plenty of people who are against illegal immigration.

Not all Americans have English blood in their veins. In fact, English blood is largely a mixture of Germanic and French descent (thanks to William the Conqueror and the Saxons).

Actually William the Conqueror led armies made up of Normans -- a people mostly the descendants of Danish Vikings who colonized northern France. How else could an army of French people actually win a war?

Immigration should be controlled -- with heavy penalties on businesses that hire illegals. Also, the USA should only take in the best and brightest from other nations -- that was the cornerstone of US immigration policies in the past and that was the purpose of setting up checkpoints like Ellis Island (to find and send back anyone with criminal histories, genetic defects and dangerous diseases).

You know, the American Indians had lousy immigration control and look what happened to them.

[Guest the_big_picture]

Actually William the Conqueror led armies made up of Normans -- a people mostly the descendants of Danish Vikings who colonized northern France. How else could an army of French people actually win a war?

I could be wrong here but didnt they also name Normandie after those vikings?

Immigration should be controlled -- with heavy penalties on businesses that hire illegals. Also, the USA should only take in the best and brightest from other nations -- that was the cornerstone of US immigration policies in the past and that was the purpose of setting up checkpoints like Ellis Island (to find and send back anyone with criminal histories, genetic defects and dangerous diseases).

only the best and the brightest? wherent the onws going to america poor peasants? at least at first?

You know, the American Indians had lousy immigration control and look what happened to them.

Got a point there, they let the europeans come in and live on their land. Today they all are dead.

[Elphaba]

Also, the USA should only take in the best and brightest from other nations -- that was the cornerstone of US immigration policies in the past and that was the purpose of setting up checkpoints like Ellis Island (to find and send back anyone with criminal histories, genetic defects and dangerous diseases).

Given your support for eugenics, and your arrogant comments like "best and the brightest," I have a hard time believing you would have let in hardly any of the immigrants that came through Ellis Island.

Elphaba

Today they all are dead.

No, they are not all dead.

Elphaba

[Gwen]

i think when a family becomes natives rather than immigrants will be up to the family. it could be a single generation or several. what i mean by that is how they behave once they get here. my family immigrated from sweaden. my great grandparents were the ones that came over. when they got here they wanted to be in america, they left for their reasons. they gave their kids "american" names, they learned the language and taught it to their kids, celebrated "american" holidays, learned the customs and started doing that. they were leaving their country and wanted to be americans. my grandfather never learned the native language of his parents. by the time my father was born the only evidence of where the family was from was the last name was .......son, and even that had been modified to an "american" spelling. and the glaring fair skin, blonde hair, blue eyes genetics. there are some familys that come here and refuse to become a part of what is going on here. they refuse to speak english in the home. they refuse to awknowledge the customs, culture, or anything else that is "american". they don't get involved in politics, they don't vote. they turn their isolated area into a mini of their homeland. for generations you can have children that live here were born here and know the homeland language and culture better than they do the "american". comparing the two, my family became locals, these others are still immigrants. same number of generations, different family attitude.

before anyone jumps on this, i do want to say that i don't think the way my family did it was the best way. i think there should be a middle ground. i think we should know where we come from, teaching our chrildren the culture and language from whence they came can only help them, increase their divercity, tollerance, and education. making them more equipt to enter this world. there should be an embracing of both worlds not a casting off or rejection of one or the other. in my mind that is the ideal way to immigrate and become american.

we have done some family history and started using some of the names from the family that immigrated for our children. we have tried to bring a little of that back into our family, not just to know who we are, where we come from, but as a way to honor those that brought us to america. i'm glad they made that difficult trip and decision generations ago.

[Elphaba]

before anyone jumps on this, i do want to say that i don't think the way my family did it was the best way. i think there should be a middle ground. i think we should know where we come from, teaching our chrildren the culture and language from whence they came can only help them, increase their divercity, tollerance, and education. making them more equipt to enter this world. there should be an embracing of both worlds not a casting off or rejection of one or the other. in my mind that is the ideal way to immigrate and become american.

we have done some family history and started using some of the names from the family that immigrated for our children. we have tried to bring a little of that back into our family, not just to know who we are, where we come from, but as a way to honor those that brought us to america. i'm glad they made that difficult trip and decision generations ago.

I can see why your ancestors thought what they were doing was best, but I absolutely agree with you. What a gift to teach your children two languages, two cultures, and like you said, "diversity, tolerance and education." I really love that and think you are honoring those who brought you to America.

Elphaba

[Dr T]

I was worried that I'd have to tell my patients today "You are dead." Thanks for clarifying that for TBP, El.

[pushka]

I must admit that I find it nauseating to hear the BNP in Britain telling people to go back to their own countries, and have learned that they do not only say this about Asians in Britain, but also about others of different original ethnic origin, when some of the members of the BNP have originally come from places such as Ireland etc.

I like to think of the UK and USA as 'melting pots', multicultural, and tolerant overall. I think it's wonderful that so many races of people have begun to live together, teaching each other about their heritage, and I do think that everyone should be educated about their family roots if they belong to a family of immigrants.

(I'm sorry if that seems a litte rambling, I often have trouble finding suitable words these days...so have to 'go around the houses' to explain myself)

[pam]

I grew up in an area where I was a "minority." In that I am glad. I grew up with an understanding and a tolerance of people from many different ethnic/cultural backgrounds. Quite a diverse group of people. Perhaps that's why I now have a hugely immense dislike of ethnic slurs/jokes. One of my biggest loves is meeting and talking with people from other countries. Helps me to see that the world isn't as large as we think it is. Though the languages may be different/cultures may be different/faces may be different....there are so many similarities. You have to only look to see and appreciate.

[Gabelma]

In the old world its basicly easy, the natives are the ones that always been there. The celts are the irish since the creation of man kind. But America is extremly diffrent, the natives are the indians. But Americans are from the old world, diffrent people of diffrent races all merged together.

But a lot of Americans complain of immigration even if thats what the nation is built on. Its not like Sweden and England that where allies during the crusade in the year 1100. Its a brand new Nation 200 years old, what with todays standard could be the life span of a father and son.

When did a distinction between American and immigrant come? And how can Americans on Idol tell Simon the englishman to go back home to England, and be hostile towards him for not being an American when them themselves have english blood and dont live in a English nation.

What I am saying might sound like babble but it is realy confusing and yet intressting

I'm not American - I am about as British as you can be, my family history on all sides goes back to 1700 in either Britain or Ireland so far, but would like to point out American Idol technically is British lol

Charley

[Dror]

In the old world its basicly easy, the natives are the ones that always been there. The celts are the irish since the creation of man kind. But America is extremly diffrent, the natives are the indians. But Americans are from the old world, diffrent people of diffrent races all merged together.

But a lot of Americans complain of immigration even if thats what the nation is built on. Its not like Sweden and England that where allies during the crusade in the year 1100. Its a brand new Nation 200 years old, what with todays standard could be the life span of a father and son.

When did a distinction between American and immigrant come? And how can Americans on Idol tell Simon the englishman to go back home to England, and be hostile towards him for not being an American when them themselves have english blood and dont live in a English nation.

What I am saying might sound like babble but it is realy confusing and yet intressting

My mother is an immigrant... and an American. She became a naturalized citizen many years ago. Some Americans are blockheads and just don't like foreigners. Normal Americans understand we are a nation of immigrants and have no problem with legal immigration.

BTW, your view of the Old World is rather simplistic. Migrations, invasions, and intermarriage between populations have been going on for thousands of years in the Old World, too, so the question of who is an Englishman, a German, a Greek, etc. is most definitely NOT straightforward.

Dror

[Guest the_big_picture]

WOW, thanks ALmom. That was very deep and analytical.

BTW, your view of the Old World is rather simplistic. Migrations, invasions, and intermarriage between populations have been going on for thousands of years in the Old World, too, so the question of who is an Englishman, a German, a Greek, etc. is most definitely NOT straightforward.

Dror

Yes nobody is pure, but evereyone thinks there is a system and that is what counts. The vikings had blond/red hair, most swedes got brown hair, excluding girls that dye their hair. They originally came from Germany over a 1000 years ago.

And the greeks have turkish and italian and persian blood in them, but they still think they are the pure decendants of the ancient greeks. Its what evereyone thinks that matters.

[Palerider]

I must admit that I find it nauseating to hear the BNP in Britain telling people to go back to their own countries, and have learned that they do not only say this about Asians in Britain, but also about others of different original ethnic origin, when some of the members of the BNP have originally come from places such as Ireland etc.

I like to think of the UK and USA as 'melting pots', multicultural, and tolerant overall. I think it's wonderful that so many races of people have begun to live together, teaching each other about their heritage, and I do think that everyone should be educated about their family roots if they belong to a family of immigrants.

(I'm sorry if that seems a litte rambling, I often have trouble finding suitable words these days...so have to 'go around the houses' to explain myself)

I enjoyed what you said and here's why......I did serve my mission there in England and wish I had a 10 cents or in your case 10 pense every time I was told "go back to your country where you came from. I also had several tell me what countries they hated the most and in what order......I believe its like that all over the world.

[Maureen]

.....I did serve my mission there in England...

Hi Pale, my BIL served his mission in England also, Manchester, Oct 1979 to Oct 1981. What about you?

M.

[Snow]

In the old world its basicly easy, the natives are the ones that always been there. The celts are the irish since the creation of man kind. But America is extremly diffrent, the natives are the indians. But Americans are from the old world, diffrent people of diffrent races all merged together.

But a lot of Americans complain of immigration even if thats what the nation is built on. Its not like Sweden and England that where allies during the crusade in the year 1100. Its a brand new Nation 200 years old, what with todays standard could be the life span of a father and son.

When did a distinction between American and immigrant come? And how can Americans on Idol tell Simon the englishman to go back home to England, and be hostile towards him for not being an American when them themselves have english blood and dont live in a English nation.

What I am saying might sound like babble but it is realy confusing and yet intressting

What are you talking about. There's no debate about immigration. There is distress of ILLEGAL immigration - you know, breaking the law, or do you think crime is irrelevant?

<div class='quotemain'> Also, the USA should only take in the best and brightest from other nations -- that was the cornerstone of US immigration policies in the past and that was the purpose of setting up checkpoints like Ellis Island (to find and send back anyone with criminal histories, genetic defects and dangerous diseases).

Given your support for eugenics, and your arrogant comments like "best and the brightest," I have a hard time believing you would have let in hardly any of the immigrants that came through Ellis Island.

Elphaba

The idea of best and brightest is an excellent one. It should be one criteria for legal immigration. We need all the smart gals and guys we can get.

[Fiannan]

<div class='quotemain'>

In the old world its basicly easy, the natives are the ones that always been there. The celts are the irish since the creation of man kind. But America is extremly diffrent, the natives are the indians. But Americans are from the old world, diffrent people of diffrent races all merged together.

But a lot of Americans complain of immigration even if thats what the nation is built on. Its not like Sweden and England that where allies during the crusade in the year 1100. Its a brand new Nation 200 years old, what with todays standard could be the life span of a father and son.

When did a distinction between American and immigrant come? And how can Americans on Idol tell Simon the englishman to go back home to England, and be hostile towards him for not being an American when them themselves have english blood and dont live in a English nation.

What I am saying might sound like babble but it is realy confusing and yet intressting

What are you talking about. There's no debate about immigration. There is distress of ILLEGAL immigration - you know, breaking the law, or do you think crime is irrelevant?

<div class='quotemain'> Also, the USA should only take in the best and brightest from other nations -- that was the cornerstone of US immigration policies in the past and that was the purpose of setting up checkpoints like Ellis Island (to find and send back anyone with criminal histories, genetic defects and dangerous diseases).

Given your support for eugenics, and your arrogant comments like "best and the brightest," I have a hard time believing you would have let in hardly any of the immigrants that came through Ellis Island.

Elphaba

The idea of best and brightest is an excellent one. It should be one criteria for legal immigration. We need all the smart gals and guys we can get.

Hey, did you catch the Ali G movie where he gets elected to parliamment in England and enacts a law to only allow pretty girls to immigrate to England because there are so few there now? The screening scene was absolutely hillarious.

But seriously, the immigration policy of the USA used to be based on the idea of getting the best, brightest and healthiest people here. That's what Ellis Island was all about. Also, it is a myth that the only people who came to the USA were the poor and downtrodden. Adam Smith and Charles Darwin noted that the USA would become a great nation because it was the innovative middle classes that were leaving Europe and establishing a new life in the US. Hey, a ticket to go to America was way too expensive for the poor to afford.

[Iggy]

But seriously, the immigration policy of the USA used to be based on the idea of getting the best, brightest and healthiest people here. That's what Ellis Island was all about. Also, it is a myth that the only people who came to the USA were the poor and downtrodden. Adam Smith and Charles Darwin noted that the USA would become a great nation because it was the innovative middle classes that were leaving Europe and establishing a new life in the US. Hey, a ticket to go to America was way too expensive for the poor to afford.

Seriously, where did you get that from? Couldn't find any of that in the following.

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content...mp;mini_id=1459

Timeline

The Naming of Ellis Island

Ellis Island was no more than a lot of sand in the Hudson River, located just south of Manhattan, in the 17th century. The island was named Kioshk (Gull Island) by the Mohegan Indians that lived on the nearby shores. In the 1630's a Dutch man, Michael Paauw, acquired the island and renamed it "Oyster Island"; the island was used as a place to shuck and eat oysters. In 1664, the British took possession of the area from the Dutch and renamed the island "Gull Island". Not long afterwards, the name of the island changed to "Gibbet Island", because men convicted of piracy were hanged there ("Gibbet" refers to the gallows tree).

In the 1770's the island was sold to Samuel Ellis, who developed it into a picnic spot. The U.S. War Department bought the island for 10,000 dollars in 1808. Defenses were built on this and other islands in the area in the years preceding the war of 1812. During the war, Fort Gibson was built on the island to house prisoners. Half a decade later, Ellis Island was used to as a munitions arsenal for the Union army during the Civil War. It was said that there were enough explosives stored on the island to cause significant damage to all of the neighboring areas.

After the Civil War, the island stood vacant until the government decided to replace the Immigration Station at Castle Garden. In 1890, Castle Island, located on the southern tip of Manhattan, was closed. Ellis Island was selected to be the new immigration processing center to facilitate the large number of immigrants coming to America. In 1892, Ellis Island opened and for the next fifty years more than twelve million people came through the island on their way into the United States.

Vocabulary word

immigrant - a person who comes to a new country to live

1770-1790

During the American Revolution (1776) Ellis Island proprietor and New York merchant Samuel Ellis caters to local fisherman in his tavern located on the island.

The first federal immigration law, The Naturalization Act, is passed in 1790. This allows all white males living in the U.S. for two years to become citizens.

1800-1820

In 1808 Ellis Island is sold by the heirs of Samuel Ellis to the State of New York, but the name is kept. Later this year, the island is sold for $10,000 to the Federal Government.

There is little regulation of immigration when the first great wave begins in 1814. Nearly five million people will arrive from Northern and Western Europe in the next forty-five years.

1840-1860

The potato blight strikes Ireland and the ensuing famine (1846-50) leads to the immigration of over 1 million Irish in the next decade. Concurrently, large numbers of Germans flee political and economic unrest.

Castle Garden, one of the first state run immigration depots, opens in New York City in 1855.

1861-1885

Rapid settlement of the West begins with the passing of The Homestead Act in 1862. Attracted by the opportunity to own land, more Europeans begin to immigrate.

Beginning in 1875, the United States forbids prostitutes and criminals from entering the country.

1890

The control of immigration is turned over to the Federal Government, and $75,000 is appropriated for construction of the first Federal Immigration Station on Ellis Island. Artesian wells are dug as the size of Ellis Island is doubled to over six acres with landfill created from incoming ships' ballast and the subway tunnels in New York. During the time of this construction, the Barge Office at the Battery at the lower tip of Manhattan serves as the reception site for immigrants.

The Chinese Exclusion Act is passed in 1882. Restricted as well are "lunatics" and "idiots."

1892

Ellis Island Opens

The first Ellis Island Immigration Station officially opens on January 1, 1892 as three large ships wait to land. 700 immigrants passed through Ellis Island that day, and nearly 450,000 followed through the course of that first year. Annie Moore, a 15 year old girl from County Cork, Ireland, is the first person admitted to the new immigration station. On that opening day, she received a greeting from officials and a $10.00 gold piece.

1893-1899

On June 15, 1897, with 200 immigrants on the island, a fire breaks out in one of the towers in the main building and the roof collapses. Though no one is killed, all immigration records dating back to 1840 and the Castle Garden era are destroyed. The Immigration Station is relocated to the Barge Office in Battery Park in Manhattan.

1900-1910

On December 17, 1900, the New York Tribune offered a scathing account of conditions at the Battery station including "grimy, gloomy...more suggestive of an enclosure for animals than a receiving station for prospective citizens of the United States." In response to this, New York architectural firm Boring & Tilton reconstructs the immigrant station and the new, fire proofed facility is officially opened in December as 2,251 people pass through on opening day.

To prevent a similar situation from occurring again, Commissioner of Immigration William Williams cleans house on Ellis Island in 1902 - he awards contracts based on merit and announces contracts will be revoked if any dishonesty is suspected. He imposes penalties for any violation of this rule and posts "Kindness and Consideration" signs as reminders.

By 1903 anarchists are denied admittance into the U.S.

On April 17, 1907, an all time daily high of 11,747 immigrants received is reached. Ellis Island experiences its highest number of immigrants received in a single year, with 1,004,756 arrivals. Federal law is passed excluding persons having physical and mental defects as well as children arriving without adults.

Vocabulary word

anarchist - one who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power

1911-1920

World War I begins in 1914 and immigration to the U.S. halts. Ellis Island experiences a sharp decline in receiving immigrants - from 178,416 in 1915 to 28,867 in 1918.

Starting in 1917, Ellis Island operates as a hospital for the Army, a way station for Navy personnel and a detention center for enemy aliens. The literacy test is introduced at this time, and stays on the books until 1952. Those over the age of 16 who cannot read 30 to 40 test words in their own language will not be admitted through Ellis Island. Asian immigrants are nearly all banned.

By 1918 the U.S. Army takes over most of Ellis Island and creates a make-shift way station to treat sick and wounded American servicemen.

Vocabulary word

alien - a person of another family, race, or nation

1920's

The first Immigration Quota Law is passed by Congress in 1921 after booming post-war immigration results in 590,971 people passing through Ellis Island. Only 3% of an ethnic group living in the U.S. in 1910 will be allowed to enter the country in a year.

With the Immigration Act of 1924 restricting further immigration, the annual quota of immigrants reduces to 164,000. The buildings on Ellis Island begin to fall into neglect and abandonment. America is experiencing the end of mass immigration.

The National Origins Act is passed (1929) banning immigrants from East Asia. It also decreases the quota of European immigration to 2% of the figures recorded in the 1890 census.

1950's

The passage of the Internal Security Act of 1950 excludes arriving aliens with previous links to Communist and Fascist organizations. With this, Ellis Island experiences a brief resurgence in activity. Renovations and repairs are made in an effort to accommodate detainees, sometimes numbering 1,500 at a time.

The Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1952, and a liberalized detention policy, results in the number of detainees on the island to plummet to less than 30.

Ellis Island is formally placed under the jurisdiction of the General Services Administration from 1954 to 1964, and all thirty-three structures on the island are officially closed in November, 1954.

1965

After President Lyndon B. Johnson issues Proclamation 3656,Ellis Island falls under the jurisdiction of The National Park Service as part of the Statue of Liberty National Monument.

1970-1990

Ellis Island opens to the public in 1976. During this year over 50,000 people visit.

Restoration of Ellis Island begins in 1984.

The $156 million dollar restoration of the Main Arrivals Building is completed and re-opened to the public in 1990. Since then millions of visitors have retraced the steps of their ancestors by experiencing Ellis Island.

The Statue's Message

At the time of her creation, she was saying:

Whoever you are, wherever you are, if you can just get to America, you can be free. No matter what your station where you are now, you'll be equal before the law here.

No one will ask for your papers.

No one will fasten a number on you.

No one will extort a percentage of your income as the price of earning a living.

You'll be free to pursue the life you've always dreamed of.

Emma Lazarus summed it up in those lovely words that are inscribed on the base of the Statue:

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these — the homeless, tempest-tossed — to me;

I lift my lamp beside the Golden Door.

[pushka]

<div class='quotemain'>

I must admit that I find it nauseating to hear the BNP in Britain telling people to go back to their own countries, and have learned that they do not only say this about Asians in Britain, but also about others of different original ethnic origin, when some of the members of the BNP have originally come from places such as Ireland etc.

I like to think of the UK and USA as 'melting pots', multicultural, and tolerant overall. I think it's wonderful that so many races of people have begun to live together, teaching each other about their heritage, and I do think that everyone should be educated about their family roots if they belong to a family of immigrants.

(I'm sorry if that seems a litte rambling, I often have trouble finding suitable words these days...so have to 'go around the houses' to explain myself)

I enjoyed what you said and here's why......I did serve my mission there in England and wish I had a 10 cents or in your case 10 pense every time I was told "go back to your country where you came from. I also had several tell me what countries they hated the most and in what order......I believe its like that all over the world.

Thanks PR...I appreciate that :)

[Elphaba]

The idea of best and brightest is an excellent one. It should be one criteria for legal immigration. We need all the smart gals and guys we can get.

I have no problem with it being "one" of the criteria for legal immigration. I have a problem with it being the "only" criteria.

My point is, based on Finnian's past posts, such as his support for eugenics, he would exclude everyone but the "best and the brightest."

Finally, I suspect his idea of the "b and the b" is completely different from mine.

Elphaba

Latetr edit: I think I misunderstood your sentence: "It should be one criteria for legal immigration." If you meant it should be one criteria for every legal immigration applicant, then please provide the specifics of "best and brightest" for me. What exactly should immigration look for to determine if the applicant is one of the "best and brightest"?

Elphaba

[Alaskagain]

Great points, Iggy.

Visiting the Statue of Liberty was overwhelming for me. There were people from many different cultures who came to visit the same day. I have no idea how many were tourists, and how many were US Citizens, and how many were here on working or student visa. I felt honored that I am an American.

I am not against immigration at all. I am against ILLEGAL immigration. Most of my ancestors from 1720 to 1925 were immigrants. All of them obeyed whatever immigration laws existed at their time. Once here, they set about doing whatever was needed to become a Naturalized Citizen. They worked hard, paid taxes, voted, and served in the military. They served their neighbors, their communities, their churches and their new country. They became Americans.

[Elphaba]

But seriously, the immigration policy of the USA used to be based on the idea of getting the best, brightest and healthiest people here. That's what Ellis Island was all about. Also, it is a myth that the only people who came to the USA were the poor and downtrodden. Adam Smith and Charles Darwin noted that the USA would become a great nation because it was the innovative middle classes that were leaving Europe and establishing a new life in the US. Hey, a ticket to go to America was way too expensive for the poor to afford.

I don't think I've ever known anyone who makes up his own "facts" more than you do.

From Wikipedia:

Ellis Island opened on January 1, 1892 and was closed in November 12, 1954, but not before 12 million immigrants, were inspected there by the US Bureau of Immigration (Immigration and Naturalization Service) There are unsubstantiated estimates for immigrants processed there as high as 20 million.

It was the major processing station for third class/steerage immigrants entering the United States in 1892; it processed 70% of all immigrants at the time.

It is simply impossible that 20 million people consisted of the "best, brightest and healthiest immigrants."

Wealthy immigrants that traveled first class and second class would get automatic entry into the United States. Those who did not travel first or second class had to pass a six second physical examination. Those with visible health problems or diseases were sent home or held in the island's hospital facilities for long periods of time. Then they were asked 29 questions including name, occupation, and the amount of money they carried with them.

Although the wealthy immigrants were allowed automatic entry, we now know that didn't guarantee they were all healthy. And again, it certainly didn't guarantee intelligence or stability. That was an assumption made at the time. But no guarantee of the "best and the brightest."

About 2 percent were denied admission to the U.S. and sent back to their countries of origin for reasons such as chronic contagious disease, criminal background, or insanity.

Two percent were sent back! How does that jive with your "best and brightest" assertion?

Elphaba

[Guest Yediyd]

Even if your assertion were true, Fiannan...which it is not...why would you want us to accept all the rif raf from other countries? Don't you think we have enough crime in this country? I am GLAD that such things as criminal records and health are factors in determining the eligibility to immigrate to this country!!! If Micheal Jackson was from some other country and tried to come here after that ridiculas trial...I'd like to think we would have sent his perverted butt back to the rock it crawled out from under!!!

Unfortunately for us...the rock he crawled out of ...was American.

[Elphaba]

Even if your assertion were true, Fiannan...which it is not...why would you want us to accept all the rif raf from other countries? Don't you think we have enough crime in this country? I am GLAD that such things as criminal records and health are factors in determining the eligibility to immigrate to this country!!! If Micheal Jackson was from some other country and tried to come here after that ridiculas trial...I'd like to think we would have sent his perverted butt back to the rock it crawled out from under!!!

Unfortunately for us...the rock he crawled out of ...was American.

Yediyd,

Finnian would agree with you here, as would most of us.

Elphaba

[Fiannan]

Elphaba, the problem with screening people out in the days of Ellis Island was that the sheer numbers of people coming in made it impossible to individually process everyone. However, especially in the early part of the 20th. Century the ideal was that screening would take place. You are correct that only 1 in 50 people were denied entry but again, the notion of screening was there (it was just impractical).

However, it is notable that it was the entrepreneurial people who tended to be the pioneers to the USA. The people who left Europe wanted something better. The desperately poor could not afford to leave, those satisfied there stayed and the rich stayed. Those who support the notion of the risk-taking personality (type T) feel this explains both our greatness as well as a high crime rate.

So keep up the condescending attitude Elphaba -- it's still fun to debate 'ya.