Guest MormonGator Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: 16 minutes ago, MormonGator said: The forum isn't working...ack. ignore this. Um...I didn't say that. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Okay, I'm understanding you better now. So there are classes that study someone besides white men. That's good. I don't know what the students are looking for then, it would be interesting to read the petition to better understand if they are over reaching or not. Anyway, thanks for your help. BTW, I don't want to get rid of the white guys, I love Shakespeare and Milton too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Um...I didn't say that. lol. Oops, I wanted to delete that before anyone saw it. The quote box was showing a previous quote not the right one and when I tried to fix it, then it wouldn't let my type outside of the quote box. Things like that have happened to me before and the only way I've found to clear it is to post (then delete). Sorry to put words in your mouth, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: . Sorry to put words in your mouth, LOL. How could you! I'll never forgive you for this! (totally playing. No worries) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 38 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: Lousy being YOUR opinion. And "not lousy" being yours. True, others share yours, but others share mine. 'Sides, I'm not trying to be offensive (as if that makes any difference), I was pointing out the fact that Dubois is no Shakespeare. Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) 58 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: Have you read the petition or talked to any of the students involved, or even a different article? I'm not willing to accept that this is all there is to the story without more information. What's racist is thing that the only good literature comes from white folks and that no one of color could have anything of value to say. That's racist. How is that not obvious? Have you? (I can't believe you called me out on whether I've read the petition... I even read Congressional Bills and Supreme Court Rulings - as you well know having just recently given you one of them -,you think I won't read a 5 paragraph petition?) From the petition: " In particular, we oppose the continued existence of the Major English Poets sequence as the primary prerequisite for further study. <snip> The Major English Poets sequences creates a culture that is especially hostile to students of color. <snip> It’s time for the English major to decolonize — not diversify — its course offerings". We don't STUDY (totally different from just reading) Shakespeare in school simply because it is "good literature". I went to school in the Philippines. Nobody there ever think that Shakespeare is not Filipino! Shakespeare is Shakespeare - he could be blue, red, yellow, green, IT DOESN'T MATTER. There's only one Shakespeare just like there is only one J.K. Rowlings. If we ever add Rowlings on the literature study list, we won't be studying it because it is "good literature". We would study it for Harry Potter's controversial history as well as its impact to the revival of the love of reading in American Middle Schools or something. Just like we study Jane Austen for her unique perspective of the role of women in the Victorian era... Austen could be blue it doesn't matter. What is racist is the position that the value of Shakespearean study should be REMOVED from required curricula BECAUSE he is white. It would be the exact same thing as studying Joseph Smith's D&C holds no value because Smith is white, therefore, Mormons shouldn't be required to study D&C. It is a stupid argument. Edited June 7, 2016 by anatess2 Backroads and zil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Have you? (I can't believe you called me out on whether I've read the petition... I even read Congressional Bills and Supreme Court Rulings - as you well know having just recently given you one of them -,you think I won't read a 5 paragraph petition?) Actually just that you read congressional bills and Supreme Court rulings doesn't mean you read everything else. In fact, I know many people who only read a certain type of thing and don't read much outside of that genre. 10 minutes ago, LeSellers said: True, others share yours, but others share mine. 'Sides, I'm not trying to be offensive (as if that makes any difference), I was pointing out the fact that Dubois is no Shakespeare. Very true. No one would compare Dubois to Shakespeare, that's for sure. One of the many beauties about literature is that it's all subjective-to a point. If you (again, not you meaning LeSellers) think Shakespeare is a lousy writer yet 99.9% of everyone else thinks he is fantastic-you are the problem, not everyone else (again, not you meaning LeSellers). What should probably be said more is "I don't particularly like author X, but I can see why someone else thinks it is good literature." For me, that's Robert Frost. I never liked his poetry much and it certainly never spoke me. But just because it doesn't speak to me doesn't mean it isn't good. it's like comedians. I never got the appeal of Jeff Dunham but that doesn't mean he isn't funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I'm sorry, y'all, but... I'm reading these past couple of pages and giggling because all I can think about is the English teacher from Ten Things I Hate About You. anatess2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 41 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Actually just that you read congressional bills and Supreme Court rulings doesn't mean you read everything else. In fact, I know many people who only read a certain type of thing and don't read much outside of that genre. Sure. I don't read Cosmopolitan. But I don't criticize its articles on lds.net either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 23 minutes ago, Backroads said: I'm sorry, y'all, but... I'm reading these past couple of pages and giggling because all I can think about is the English teacher from Ten Things I Hate About You. This has got to come with a visual. Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Anatess, no offense but I don't spend much time cataloging your reading habits. Though I do recall you talking about Shades of Grey. I wondered if you had read the because your comments seemed to miss the point. The petition says: "A year spent around a seminar table where the literary contributions of women, people of color, and queer folk are absent actively harms all students, regardless of their identity." Their complaint is, as I said before, that there are no contributions from anyone but white men. Its not that they simply don't like white authors. As Gator pointed out and the petition appears to allude to, there are some of those classes later, but there concern is that students won't make it that far. Lehi, it was never my intention to compare Dubois to Shakespeare. I love Dickens but I wouldn't compare him to Shakespeare either. I was merely pointing out that there are bboks, considerEd classics that are not by white authors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 While we're celebrating free speech here, let me go back to something. Forgive me for being a little behind in the thread. I don't tend to read it regularly, as I'm a person who gets weighed down by too much negativity. So anyway, regarding th "USMerica" debate: I am not triggered by the term. My feelings aren't wounded. I'm not offended by the term in and of itself. What does offend me is discourteous behavior. Let's say, for instance, that I really really loved Monty Python. Let's say I wanted to honor Monty Python by entering every room or conversation saying, "NEE! NEE! NEE! NEE! NEE NEE NEE NEE NEE NEE NEE!" That would be annoying, right? Hopefully, as a person who recognizes that spaces and conversations belong to more people than myself, I'd be willing to stop if enough people expressed annoyance. I believe in freedom of speech, but I also believe I will get farther and feel better when I make an effort to be kind and courteous; thus, if I'm doing something that annoys people and I learn that I am annoying people, out of courtesy and kindness I will make an effort to stop that behavior. I won't continue saying "NEE! NEE! NEE! NEE! NEE NEE NEE NEE NEE NEE NEE!" just because I like it and I can. "USMerica" and other terms invented to soothe the feelings of those who don't like that we call ourselves what we are grate on my nerves. They annoy the heck out of me. Besides the fact that I think it's silly to re-invent a word because the shortening of the name of our country offends people who live on continents who happen to bear part of that same name, it bothers me to have to try to pronounce a silly non-word in my head every time I come across it. "Uhs-merica?" "You-Ess-Merica"? I don't even care. It's not a word. So yeah, that poster has the right to type silly made-up words, and people have the right to be annoyed by it. Poster has the right to continue in spite of (or because of) people's annoyance, but there are natural consequences to that, like people seeing the poster as a discourteous person and not wanting to have discussions with discourteous people. Free speech is like free will. You have the freedom to do it, but not the freedom from the results of doing it. Clear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: Anatess, no offense but I don't spend much time cataloging your reading habits. Though I do recall you talking about Shades of Grey. I wondered if you had read the because your comments seemed to miss the point. The petition says: "A year spent around a seminar table where the literary contributions of women, people of color, and queer folk are absent actively harms all students, regardless of their identity." Their complaint is, as I said before, that there are no contributions from anyone but white men. Its not that they simply don't like white authors. As Gator pointed out and the petition appears to allude to, there are some of those classes later, but there concern is that students won't make it that far. Lehi, it was never my intention to compare Dubois to Shakespeare. I love Dickens but I wouldn't compare him to Shakespeare either. I was merely pointing out that there are bboks, considerEd classics that are not by white authors That would be true if what they're asking for is to ADD a course to diversify. That's not what they want as STATED in the petition. They want to REMOVE the course from required curriculum to DECOLONIZE. Are you also going to complain that the BIBLE have no contributions from anyone but Middle Eastern men so we have to expand it to add the works of <name some black pastor here>? Why or why not? <Caps not used for yelling. it's used for emphasis. I can change it to bold or anything else if you prefer. The caps is the fastest to type.> Edited June 7, 2016 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Actually, I don't necessarily agree with the petition. I see their point that there needs to be more diversity, as Gator pointed out there is some later in other classes. But I do sympathize with their concern of only studying the works of white authors for an entire year. Rather than cut the class entirely, I would favor shortening it. Of course, I don't want to cut Shakespeare and Milton, I really don't think that was their point either. The Bible analogy doesn't apply because that is one book, or you might even call it an anthology. But we are talking about a class which as far as I can tell covers several works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 4 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said: The way that I understand Political Correctness is basically the same idea...call people what they prefer to be called, don't call them something they have specifically said they don't appreciate. Where's the problem in that? I know this post is several replies back but I'd like to take a stab at the answer. Courtesy is when you keep other peoples' sensibilities in mind when you speak, but you don't let that inhibit your own ability to express yourself. That means others should be willing to make some accommodation for you in the name of mutual respect and clear communication. Political Correctness is when people use the excuse of being offended to attempt to manipulate language and influence the way people think. That's just how I see it. So this is an example of courtesy, IMHO: Me: So yeah I think that chick over there is pretty hot. LP: Could you avoid calling them 'chicks' please? That's kind of annoying to me. Me: Okay sorry about that. I think the lady over there is pretty hot. And this is political correctness: Me: So yeah I think that chick over there is pretty hot. SJW: How dare you use such a condescending term? Do you want to go back to re-education? Me: No, sorry. I find that person over there to be physically attractive, not in any way related to that person's sex or gender identity. Me (In reality): Get bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 @unixknight that was helpful. I disagree, but I appreciate understanding better how others see it. If I saw it that way, I would find it really annoying too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 @LiterateParakeet Wouldn't it be great if every disagreement could be this calm and friendly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, unixknight said: @LiterateParakeet Wouldn't it be great if every disagreement could be this calm and friendly? Lol, that is my dream, actually. Dream on, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 minute ago, LiterateParakeet said: Lol, that is my dream, actually. Dream on, right? Ahhh Aerosmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 minute ago, LiterateParakeet said: Lol, that is my dream, actually. Dream on, right? Ahhh Aerosmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, unixknight said: Ahhh Aerosmith. Aerosmith? (I'm such a nerd.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: Aerosmith? (I'm such a nerd.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZfZ8uWaOFI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_On_%28Aerosmith_song%29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 14 minutes ago, unixknight said: Ahhh Aerosmith. I saw them in Manchester NH when Kiss opened for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 10 minutes ago, unixknight said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZfZ8uWaOFI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_On_%28Aerosmith_song%29 Ohhhhhh! Awesome thanks! I'm a tiny bit more COOL now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, MormonGator said: I saw them in Manchester NH when Kiss opened for them. KISS opened for Aerosmith? I thought they were "peers" for lack of a better word. You know what I mean, usually opening acts are to introduce someone lesser known...I thought they were more on the same level. Oh man, I'm probably digging myself even deeper into Nerd-dom here aren't I? I should just delete this before I post, but my curiosity is stronger than my pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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