The creation

[bytebear]

33 minutes ago, zil said:

Stars aren't in facsimile #2 for the same reason elephants aren't in facsimile #2: it doesn't need either to teach what it's trying to teach.  (At least, that was what I understood from Vort's comment.)

Yes, but Kolob is represented in facsimile #2.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Why are there no stars or a reference to stars in facsimile #2?

I failed to look at Facsimile #2 when answering this, and instead assumed based on your wording that you were speaking of the facsimile that is actually Facsimile #1, showing the figure on the table and the canopic jars and such. My mistake. I see now that I made a wrong assumption, so let me answer this anew:

There are all sorts of references to stars in Facsimile #2. Figures 1 and 2 both represent stars; Figure 5 represents a planet, which in Egyptian understanding is a type of star; and Figures 22 and 23 both represent stars. How is it that you claim there are no references to stars in Facsimile #2?

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I am trying to understand why you brought up elephants in reference to facsimile #2.  Since your response seemed sarcastic and irrelevant I am asking for clarification.  Would you explain your understanding of facsimile #2 and why it is presented with chapter 3 of Abraham?  Specifically if the references to stars is literal as you insist is obvious?  I am wondering why it is not so obvious from the facsimile #2.  Since you hold the opinion that this is obvious - I thought I would try to understand your insight and why you felt it was important to include elephants into the discussion?  Does it bother you that I ask?

My response was not sarcastic; rather, it was hyperbolic, and meant to convey that stars are irrelevant to the figure that I (mistakenly) thought was under discussion. It was an attitude of bewilderment, though now that I understand the actual figure you are referring to, I must admit I'm much more bewildered than I was before.

[Traveler]

25 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

What's the point of revealing that one Kolob day is equal to 1000 years if Kolob is only meant to be symbolic of Christ?

Actually the reference of 1000 to 1 has great significance to the ancient Pythagoreans - I would compare it to the same kind of reference Jesus made when he suggested that we forgive 7 times 70 - I do not think it is as literal as some suggest - I do not think he intended that we forgive 490 times and then quit forgiving with 491.  To the ancient Pythagoreans this ratio of 1000 to 1 is a kind of rhetorical proof that G-d and Jesus actually exist and have a relationship with mankind.  I really do not think a literal quantum definition of space time distortion is the proper way to understand this scripture reference.  I may be wrong and am open to discussion but not if I am treated with such ridiculously inappropriate answers that some think have any relevance whatsoever.

[The Folk Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Actually the reference of 1000 to 1 has great significance to the ancient Pythagoreans - I would compare it to the same kind of reference Jesus made when he suggested that we forgive 7 times 70 - I do not think it is as literal as some suggest - I do not think he intended that we forgive 490 times and then quit forgiving with 491.  To the ancient Pythagoreans this ratio of 1000 to 1 is a kind of rhetorical proof that G-d and Jesus actually exist and have a relationship with mankind.  I really do not think a literal quantum definition of space time distortion is the proper way to understand this scripture reference.  I may be wrong and am open to discussion but not if I am treated with such ridiculously inappropriate answers that some think have any relevance whatsoever.

That doesn't explain why God gave us the ratio if it's only meant to be symbolic of Christ.

[Traveler]

7 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

That doesn't explain why God gave us the ratio if it's only meant to be symbolic of Christ.

The number 1000 is 10(3) or 3rd power.  To the ancient Pythagoreans this is an important ratio for many reasons and does indeed give symbolism to Christ (G-d) as has been revealed in these last days.  The poetic gemology is stunning and has ancient significance that would be almost impossible to translate - but is a most wonderful testament to the prophetic gift Joseph had to translate this unique scripture.  That this has come forth in our day - I would suggest is something to be wondered and marveled about.  We ar told that all scripture (if we understand it - testifies of Christ).  I think you miss this point when you say "why God gave us the ratio if it's only meant to be symbolic of Christ".

 

I would ask the question in a different manner - Why would G-d make such a reference if it was only a liter reference to a quantum time distortion?

[Traveler]

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Edited February 19, 2016 by Traveler

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I would ask the question in a different manner - Why would G-d make such a reference if it was only a liter reference to a quantum time distortion?

I never said "only". That line of thought is other's.

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I never said "only". That line of thought is other's.

Are you the same "The Folk Prophet" that said

Quote

That doesn't explain why God gave us the ratio if it's only meant to be symbolic of Christ.

??????

[The Folk Prophet]

23 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Are you the same "The Folk Prophet" that said

??????

*sigh*

Did you miss the "doesn't" part of that comment? I can't see how you're confused on this. I never said that Kolob is only literal. The line of thought that Kolob is "only" this or "only" that belongs to others. It is not my position.

[Traveler]

12 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

*sigh*

Did you miss the "doesn't" part of that comment? I can't see how you're confused on this. I never said that Kolob is only literal. The line of thought that Kolob is "only" this or "only" that belongs to others. It is not my position.

I have determined that I should comment - not because I know that I am right, because I do not know for sure.  As often as I have studied the Book of Abraham I have always come away with the impression that regardless of what I have thought I understand that in reality there is much more to this wondrous scripture that I do not understand.  I have done extensive effort to do some kind of empirical mapping of Abraham to anything we know of empirically.  I have not found this endeavor as helpful as I had hopped despite the fascinating prospects that Abraham is a likely candidate for the introduction of Pythagorean mathematics.  When I encountered the OP of this thread that suggests, that the purpose of Abraham chapter 3 is a spiritual testament of the mission and purpose of Christ, I was struck with a profound epiphany.

 

If Abraham refers to anything empirical, I am quite confident that there is very little importance to that empirical connection and that should we come to possess the empirical evidence of the actual star and or planet Kolob, thinking we have some actual proof, that in reality we will; in such pursuit miss seeing the forest for all the trees.  Our obscure solar system is so obscure in our galaxy it is difficult to think we have any meaning here - and yet in all our brilliance we have managed to finely reach out from earth to outer reaches of our obscure solar system with the Voyager probe - an effort requiring something in the neighborhood of 30 years - yet we have only extended a few light minutes into a galaxy that is 100,000 light years across and that in reality our vast galaxy is only an obscure galaxy in a vast super-cluster of galaxies - I provided a picture of this super-cluster on the first page of this thread.

 

One of the thoughts expressed in this thread concerns the purpose of the snake placed on a pole by Moses.  The snake symbolizing Christ and his power to heal and save.  I am quite convinced that any connection of this symbol to anything other than Christ (despite the fact of the importance of snake symbolism in ancient Egypt) is in essence out of context.  It may be very fun to research snakes (both modern and ancient for both empirical and symbolism) but I submit that the effort will be limited.  And this from the poster on this thread that loves and appreciates things empirical.

 

I for one appreciate the effort to bring Christ into the understanding of Abraham - I think it provides insight to the mission and glory of Christ - both pre-earth existence and for our mortal probation as well as who we are currently standing as fallen beings that are "eternal" stars like the lights that shine their light everywhere in the sky at night.  That we did not begin at birth but are specks of light that once were with G-d.  So, for those that want to focus on the distant stars, because they are billions of years old and light years away - I as sorry but I think you have focused on that which is of lessor - much lessor importance. 

 

I would like to thank all those in this thread that see Christ and shared their insight - thank you!!! - you have had an impact with my understanding of Abraham - Thank you very much for this insight!

Edited February 19, 2016 by Traveler

[Faapefuoe]

I still want to hie to Kolob.

[Traveler]

On 2/20/2016 at 1:44 AM, Faapefuoe said:

I still want to hie to Kolob.

I would rather be with and experience Christ.

[The Folk Prophet]

5 hours ago, Traveler said:

I would rather be with and experience Christ.

Well that makes no sense. If Kolob is nearest to Christ then hieing (or, apparently, hying) to Kolob means being with and experiencing Christ. If Kolob is symbolic for Christ then...we....