Dnar

[Aphrodite]

Once again Ive had the unfortunate experience of watching someone die a slow, agonising death. The man in question was well into his seventies and dying from a respiratory disorder. As he entered his final hours we realise that his Do Not Attempt Resucitation form had not been signed, and there was a mad rush to get it signed before he died, other wise this poor individual would have the degrading (and unsuccessful) action of people jumping on his chest and shoving tubes down his throat in an effort to prolong this mans wretched life and suffering, for only a few hours, maybe minutes more. Thankfully, the form was signed, and the man passed away peacefully in the end, albeit with a great deal of suffering.

Up until recently, I thought it was the patient that decided their resus status. Now I realise that it is actually the doctors decision. They decide it, and their decision is final and legally binding.

Obviously Im totally in favour of this but do members agree this is acceptable, allowing someone to die? Just wondered what peoples opinions were on it, as its not eutanasia, but of you think about it, it is a form of euthanasia (which I am also in favour of).

Aphrodite

[CrimsonKairos]

My dad could have been taken off his respirator tube right after his car accident. A nurse even suggested it might be wise to do so.

If medical opinion was that he was too far gone to recover, and if I didn't feel the Spirit object, I would have had no problem telling them to remove his respirator tube.

[sixpacktr]

Not in favor of euthansia in any way, shape or form. To me it is murder, pure and simple.

Regarding DNR, however, I believe that is up to the individual. If someone does not want heroic measures taken to prolong their life, that is okay with me (again, this is strictly my opinion). We have the technology now to prolong life if necessary, but if your body is worn out and you have to have a machine breathe for you, and tubes feed you...

I'd prefer to not have that, but again, that's me...

[StrawberryFields]

My mom had a DNR and she died from cancer 4 years ago.

My Father has a DNR and he has cancer and Alzheimers.

My FIL has a DNR and he has many medical issues.

I think it is a better place to be to let a terminal ill person go as to have them go through so much and still be here in a compromised state. Just my opinion.

[Iggy]

My Grandmother had DNR - she had an abdominal anuerism. When it burst the Dr gave her enough morphine to take the biting edge off the pain. Two hours later she passed on.

We were surprised she had DNR - but not against it. Grandma had been suffering for years with her rheumatoid arthritis and she was so tired and so ready to go. She was 84 years old.

Both my husband and I have DNR, as does his mother.

[Gabelma]

no to me its just choosing how you die when you are going to go anyway. I have a lot of sympathy with euthanasia even if I don't agree with it. If Iwasn't LDS I would have considered it when my illness was at its worse.

There are much worse things in life than death

Charley

[pushka]

I think there's nothing wrong with it, as long as the person has requested it. A very, very sad situation to be in...but the person's wishes must be taken into consideration.

[Moksha]

Not in favor of euthanasia in any way, shape or form. To me it is murder, pure and simple.

People usually object, till the ball is in their court and they are suffering unceasing pain. At that point, pious rectitudes have little sway.

[Josie]

My mother had signed a DNR and I still had to sign one for her at the hospital and fight the drs to let her go. I could keep them from using any extreme measures, but I really had to put my foot down after she had suffered for 5 days and tell them to stop everything but comfort measures and let her go because they could do not one thing to save her.

I loved and still love my mother beyond all words, but to watch what she went through because a doctor was bound by legal obligations to keep treating her to help her get better, because he did not consider her far enough gone yet to stop everything but comfort measures, was beyond all description. She suffered terriblily for 5 days, until I threw a fit with the dr and by then they were finally admitting that they could no longer help her.

She died in peace, but what she suffered the 5 days before was uncalled for. I am not talking about doing anything to end her life. I am just saying that it is ridiculous to make a person suffer like she did. When a person is dying, there is no need to let them lay and suffer like my mother did. Even if they continue to give them medication they can still give them medication to keep them comfortable too, until they are called home.

[FrankJL]

After the whole fiasco with Terri Shievo (sp?), people should have learned they need to have an AMD and a living will. That should have been a huge wakeup call to everyone.

An AMD, DNR, and Living will are all different documents you should have.

[Josie]

My mother had one and had told all of us kids what she wanted. We still had to fight the doctors. They do not stop treating a person until they determine that they can do nothing else, even though the person and family are ready to take comfort measures only.

[Alaskagain]

I'm a little confused, as usual.

Doesn't DNAR mean Do Not Attempt Resuscitation? That means if a person loses consciousness/stops breathing, no extraordinary measures will be used to 'bring them back'.

It does not mean Withhold Treatment for a patient who is still breathing on their own.

See the difference?

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

Not in favor of euthanasia in any way, shape or form. To me it is murder, pure and simple.

People usually object, till the ball is in their court and they are suffering unceasing pain. At that point, pious rectitudes have little sway.

So Moksha, I am guessing you are in favor of euthanasia? Or is my statement too 'black and white' for you?

[Josie]

Alaskagain,

You are correct in your understanding. I apologize. I am simply saying that beyond DNR, sometimes treatment is carried too far, when there is no hope.

[Alaskagain]

And I am sincerely sorry for what you and she had to endure.

[Palerider]

My mom had a DNR and she died from cancer 4 years ago.

My Father has a DNR and he has cancer and Alzheimers.

My FIL has a DNR and he has many medical issues.

I think it is a better place to be to let a terminal ill person go as to have them go through so much and still be here in a compromised state. Just my opinion.

My Mom had one also.....we were in the room when she passed away.

[Moksha]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Not in favor of euthanasia in any way, shape or form. To me it is murder, pure and simple.

People usually object, till the ball is in their court and they are suffering unceasing pain. At that point, pious rectitudes have little sway.

So Moksha, I am guessing you are in favor of euthanasia? Or is my statement too 'black and white' for you?

I would very much like that option to be open for myself if the situation of a terminal illness with unceasing pain arose. I would accord others the same right.

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Not in favor of euthanasia in any way, shape or form. To me it is murder, pure and simple.

People usually object, till the ball is in their court and they are suffering unceasing pain. At that point, pious rectitudes have little sway.

So Moksha, I am guessing you are in favor of euthanasia? Or is my statement too 'black and white' for you?

I would very much like that option to be open for myself if the situation of a terminal illness with unceasing pain arose. I would accord others the same right.

And you would feel no qualms about killing yourself? Not leaving it in God's hands, but instead taking your own life, or having someone else take it for you?

[Josie]

People usually object, till the ball is in their court and they are suffering unceasing pain. At that point, pious rectitudes have little sway.

As much as my mother went through, and also my father, and my son before his death, I am not in favor of killing anyone. When nothing can be done to help someone, I am in favor of keeping them comfortable, but put them to death, NEVER!!!

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

People usually object, till the ball is in their court and they are suffering unceasing pain. At that point, pious rectitudes have little sway.

As much as my mother went through, and also my father, and my son before his death, I am not in favor of killing anyone. When nothing can be done to help someone, I am in favor of keeping them comfortable, but put them to death, NEVER!!!

IMO, putting someone to death, for whatever reason other than self defense and war, if murder. Even if you have convinced yourself that it is the humane thing to do, etc., it is murder.

We don't know the reasons for things, and to think we know better when to send someone home rather than a loving and merciful HF is arrogance, pure and simple. To me it is akin to reading 1 page of War and Peace and saying you 'get it' better than the author...

[Aphrodite]

IMO, putting someone to death, for whatever reason other than self defense and war, if murder.

So you believe killing someone in a war is ok but reducing someones suffering is not? Thats a bit twisted sixpacktr. To me, people who partake in wars and kill other innocents as it inevitably happens, are the ones who will have to account to Heavenly Father. Killing in a war is murder pure and simple. They will have to say, yes I took part in a war that wasnt even started by me yet I got involved and ended up killing other human beings like myself. Or, yes I was suffering unimaginably and measures were taken so that I didnt have to suffer any more. I know which one Id rather say.

[sixpacktr]

IMO, putting someone to death, for whatever reason other than self defense and war, if murder.

So you believe killing someone in a war is ok but reducing someones suffering is not? Thats a bit twisted sixpacktr. To me, people who partake in wars and kill other innocents as it inevitably happens, are the ones who will have to account to Heavenly Father. Killing in a war is murder pure and simple. They will have to say, yes I took part in a war that wasnt even started by me yet I got involved and ended up killing other human beings like myself. Or, yes I was suffering unimaginably and measures were taken so that I didnt have to suffer any more. I know which one Id rather say.

Not going to argue the point, Aphrodite. Self defense, and defending your life in war, are acceptable. Killing someone because of what you believe is right and humane is not.

It isn't up for debate.

[shanstress70]

Not going to argue the point, Aphrodite. Self defense, and defending your life in war, are acceptable. Killing someone because of what you believe is right and humane is not.

It isn't up for debate.

I happen to agree with you in this instance, 6pack, but who are you to say if something is up for debate or not? Sorry, but that statement kind of bugged me.

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

Not going to argue the point, Aphrodite. Self defense, and defending your life in war, are acceptable. Killing someone because of what you believe is right and humane is not.

It isn't up for debate.

I happen to agree with you in this instance, 6pack, but who are you to say if something is up for debate or not? Sorry, but that statement kind of bugged me.

Hey Shan,

I should have added "for me" to the end of that. I credit the drugs for my cold. I'm a tad loopy...

People can debate all they want, but sometimes issues are black and white, and it then just becomes a exercise in rhetoric, to see if you can justify something that is inherently wrong.

[StrawberryFields]

A DNR is not killing someone. It is the patient or the signor who makes the decision not to have heroic efforts made on their behalf.

We will all leave this earth one day and death it the only way out. I do not currently have a DNR but if I were to become terminally ill I would get one.