Why should my friend leave his daughter in public school?

[LeSellers]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Dave Ramsey is fantastic. I listen to him as well. I agree with him totally that debt is giving up your freedom. 

Ramsey's program works, but it is slow and inflexible. If you get into trouble (from outside forces), you have no cushion.

There are better ways.

Lehi

Edited April 18, 2016 by LeSellers

[Guest]

He should leave his daughter in public school because of the exposure.  She needs the exposure to bad teaching to be able to appreciate good teachers.  She needs exposure to socialization because that's really what public school is for.  It is to allow time away from home to be exposed to the bad ideas of other youth before they've had enough life experience to formulate an opinion of their own.  As parents we all remember the days of high school with such fondness.  The bullying.  The cliques.  The emphasis on appearances more than substance.  The priorities of children who valued sex over accomplishments or pop culture over spiritual development.  Good times.

She obviously likes being in school, so she should be allowed to explore that because she's been raised so well that any of the misconceptions of other children are never going to have an impact on the way she thinks.  And the teachers who care so much that they are willing to give them a B- when she deserved a B+ speaks volumes to the quality of education she's receiving.  Obviously, the teacher values the child's education so much that his desire to giver her a lower grade is only motivated by a desire to let her learn how to cope with failure.  After all, it was her failure that she chose the wrong class.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

My alter ago isn't the only one with blonde hair. 

[Backroads]

5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Every home schooled kid I've met has been totally normal. Society is totally unfair to homeschooled families. 

The only weird home-schooled kids I knew I truly believe would have been odd ducks no matter their schooling circumstances. The majority were amiable and gregarious people.

 

To the topic at hand, part of me wonders how a parent could adequately address secondary subjects. I teach 2nd grade (charter school) and while I do pride myself there is certainly art and skill to the teaching I don't see why most people couldn't figure it out eventually, enough to educate their own kids. Teaching is a trade, really. But I teach kids how to read and do a few figures while forcing them to write poetry. Teaching a kid calculus? Yikes. Then again, for those kids who are compatible with technology, online programs have gone so far and are only going further.

I agree with anatess that if she wants to be in public school for social reasons, so be it.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

As parents we all remember the days of high school with such fondness.  The bullying.  The cliques.  The emphasis on appearances more than substance.  The priorities of children who valued sex over accomplishments or pop culture over spiritual development.  Good times.

Yep, good times.  LOL! 

[Sunday21]

I suspect that 1) not every parent is cut out to be a teacher 2) some parents do not want to spend more time with their children 3) some children do not want to spend more time with their parents. 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I suspect that...

You only suspect that? 

[NightSG]

14 hours ago, LeSellers said:

Ramsey's program works, but it is slow and inflexible. If you get into trouble (from outside forces), you have no cushion.

That's the whole point of the 3-6 month emergency fund.  If you skip that step, then yes, any even minor emergency throws a monkey wrench in it.

[LeSellers]

11 minutes ago, NightSG said:

That's the whole point of the 3-6 month emergency fund.  If you skip that step, then yes, any even minor emergency throws a monkey wrench in it.

There are better ways.

An emergency fund ties up money that should be used to pay off debt.

Lehi

[NightSG]

11 hours ago, Backroads said:

To the topic at hand, part of me wonders how a parent could adequately address secondary subjects. I teach 2nd grade (charter school) and while I do pride myself there is certainly art and skill to the teaching I don't see why most people couldn't figure it out eventually, enough to educate their own kids.

Most of the schoolteacher's skill is knowing how to educate 30+ kids from different, unknown backgrounds at a time in one hour blocks.  Educating your own, all day long is a whole different ballgame.

[LeSellers]

6 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I suspect that 1) not every parent is cut out to be a teacher 2) some parents do not want to spend more time with their children 3) some children do not want to spend more time with their parents. 

I suspect that most people assume (erroneously) that "teaching" is what happens in a classroom.

Why do we say that the best teacher is a good example? It's because it's absolutely true.

As I mentioned in an earlier message: Gypsy children do not get violin lessons (no one "teaches" them). they get a small violin, and copy their parents (daddy, usually), and, after hundreds of "false" starts, they become expert violinists. David Farragut, who commanded a warship at age 13. He learned command while watching a naval captain going about his duties. There were no formal classes. The examples are unlimited. "Teaching" is unnecessary.

When a child wants to learn, he will find a teacher, a teacher who may or may not be his parent. A parent's job is not necessarily to "teach", but to lead. If a child's passion (even a transient passion) is automobile repair, he'll need to know more arithmetic than most of us recognize. So, he'll ask to learn fractions because it's necessary to make his current dream come true. The same is true irrespective of the child's desire.

"Subjects", as taught in school, are really only tools. By making them central to education, schools suck the fun out of learning. No wonder so many children never learn to read in school.

Lehi

Edited April 19, 2016 by LeSellers

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

An emergency fund ties up money that should be used to pay off debt.

He also doesn't tend to hammer on consolidation of smaller, higher interest debts as much as I think he should, but then it's not always an option if one lacks the credit and/or collateral to get a $5-10k loan at a decent rate to clear the others.

If I could get $8000 for 18mo at 15%, I'd have a car, shave a bit off the total interest, and cut the monthly minimum down to where it would be a lot easier to overpay it significantly, and likely be completely done in 12mo with less stress than I'm dealing with right now on 5 separate creditors.  (Three of those are leftover mess from the divorce that turned up late because of moving three times in the first six months after the divorce; it wasn't that I was trying to dodge them, they just got lost in the shuffle and I didn't get any reminders because of the moves.)

[Connie]

I would agree that it's late in the year to be thinking of pulling her out right now. But maybe for next year you can think of a duel enrollment type thing. Have her do the things that are hard to do online like fine arts or sports or dance or drama or whatever in the public school or with local groups, but sign her up for some online science or history or government or math or whatever classes. BYU independent study has an online high school program, and their science courses have to be better than what she is getting right now.

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

An emergency fund ties up money that should be used to pay off debt.

He also doesn't tend to hammer on consolidation of smaller, higher interest debts as much as I think he should, but then it's not always an option if one lacks the credit and/or collateral to get a $5-10k loan at a decent rate to clear the others.

If I could get $8000 for 18mo at 15%, I'd have a car, shave a bit off the total interest, and cut the monthly minimum down to where it would be a lot easier to overpay it significantly, and likely be completely done in 12mo with less stress than I'm dealing with right now on 5 separate creditors.  (Three of those are leftover mess from the divorce that turned up late because of moving three times in the first six months after the divorce; it wasn't that I was trying to dodge them, they just got lost in the shuffle and I didn't get any reminders because of the moves.)

[LeSellers]

3 hours ago, NightSG said:

He also doesn't tend to hammer on consolidation of smaller, higher interest debts as much as I think he should, but then it's not always an option if one lacks the credit and/or collateral to get a $5-10k loan at a decent rate to clear the others.

That's not always the best plan, either. The trick is to increase cash flow. Sometimes it means paying off high-rate loans first, sometimes it means waiting and paying them later.

3 hours ago, NightSG said:

If I could get $8000 for 18mo at 15%, I'd have a car, shave a bit off the total interest, and cut the monthly minimum down to where it would be a lot easier to overpay it significantly, and likely be completely done in 12mo with less stress than I'm dealing with right now on 5 separate creditors.  (Three of those are leftover mess from the divorce that turned up late because of moving three times in the first six months after the divorce; it wasn't that I was trying to dodge them, they just got lost in the shuffle and I didn't get any reminders because of the moves.)

That's often a good idea, but not always.

Each case is different, and each case needs its own solution.

Lehi

[NightSG]

26 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

That's not always the best plan, either. The trick is to increase cash flow. Sometimes it means paying off high-rate loans first, sometimes it means waiting and paying them later.

Replacing high interest rates with lower ones is pretty much always a good idea as long as there aren't any unexpected catches in there.  The only time I could see it not being worth the effort is if some part of the debt is within a month or two of being paid off.

In my case, $8k/18mo/15% would be extending some of the payoff time, but with around $2k cash left over to get a car after paying the original debts (or more, since having cash on hand gives some leverage to offer x% payoff to each creditor and see if they bite...and of course, any leftover afterward can go right back to the new lender as an overpayment) but would keep my monthly minimum similar-to-a-bit-lower, while consolidating it makes it easier to simply throw any excess payment at the overall loan, and eliminate any duplication of fees, etc.

Psychologically, it's also a lot easier to look at one big payment than six (the five existing plus the car) smaller ones adding up to the same amount, and less daunting to add some excess income on to that one than decide which of the others to put it toward...especially since saving for the car is a delayed benefit right now.

[anatess2]

13 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Replacing high interest rates with lower ones is pretty much always a good idea as long as there aren't any unexpected catches in there.  The only time I could see it not being worth the effort is if some part of the debt is within a month or two of being paid off.

In my case, $8k/18mo/15% would be extending some of the payoff time, but with around $2k cash left over to get a car after paying the original debts (or more, since having cash on hand gives some leverage to offer x% payoff to each creditor and see if they bite...and of course, any leftover afterward can go right back to the new lender as an overpayment) but would keep my monthly minimum similar-to-a-bit-lower, while consolidating it makes it easier to simply throw any excess payment at the overall loan, and eliminate any duplication of fees, etc.

Psychologically, it's also a lot easier to look at one big payment than six (the five existing plus the car) smaller ones adding up to the same amount, and less daunting to add some excess income on to that one than decide which of the others to put it toward...especially since saving for the car is a delayed benefit right now.

15% for a car is a lot, though.  You'll be better off putting the car on a separate loan on its own.

[anatess2]

13 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Replacing high interest rates with lower ones is pretty much always a good idea as long as there aren't any unexpected catches in there.  The only time I could see it not being worth the effort is if some part of the debt is within a month or two of being paid off.

In my case, $8k/18mo/15% would be extending some of the payoff time, but with around $2k cash left over to get a car after paying the original debts (or more, since having cash on hand gives some leverage to offer x% payoff to each creditor and see if they bite...and of course, any leftover afterward can go right back to the new lender as an overpayment) but would keep my monthly minimum similar-to-a-bit-lower, while consolidating it makes it easier to simply throw any excess payment at the overall loan, and eliminate any duplication of fees, etc.

Psychologically, it's also a lot easier to look at one big payment than six (the five existing plus the car) smaller ones adding up to the same amount, and less daunting to add some excess income on to that one than decide which of the others to put it toward...especially since saving for the car is a delayed benefit right now.

15% for a car is a lot, though.  You'll be better off putting the car on a separate loan on its own.

[LeSellers]

15 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Replacing high interest rates with lower ones is pretty much always a good idea as long as there aren't any unexpected catches in there.  The only time I could see it not being worth the effort is if some part of the debt is within a month or two of being paid off.

Cash flow is the key. If you can free up $350/mo by paying off a 4% loan, but only $45/mo by retiring a 12.75% loan, go for the first in most cases. You can pay off the higher rate loan faster.

As I said, each case is different. I would never consider advising anyone without some detailed information. (BTW, it's one thing I do. 'm not advertising here, just suggesting people not take popularity to be the same as competence. Ramsey, as I said, does retire debt. He just does not do it as well as other methods can.)

Lehi

[LeSellers]

14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

15% for a car is a lot, though.  You'll be better off putting the car on a separate loan on its own.

Not always. Yes, 15% is high for a car, but it may be better than alternatives. That would be rare, but I have seen worse cases.

No two cases are the same, and no one should be trying to apply cookie cutter solutions to problems with unknown details.

Lehi

[anatess2]

8 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Not always. Yes, 15% is high for a car, but it may be better than alternatives. That would be rare, but I have seen worse cases.

No two cases are the same, and no one should be trying to apply cookie cutter solutions to problems with unknown details.

Lehi

True... but if you can get a 15% rate on an unsecured loan, it's pretty safe to say you can get a lot lower rate on a car loan.

[anatess2]

8 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Not always. Yes, 15% is high for a car, but it may be better than alternatives. That would be rare, but I have seen worse cases.

No two cases are the same, and no one should be trying to apply cookie cutter solutions to problems with unknown details.

Lehi

True... but if you can get a 15% rate on an unsecured loan, it's pretty safe to say you can get a lot lower rate on a car loan.

[LeSellers]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

True... but if you can get a 15% rate on an unsecured loan, it's pretty safe to say you can get a lot lower rate on a car loan.

In most cases (probably 99%) you're right. It's that 1% where one can get in trouble. And that trouble can be serious. It may not be financial trouble but emotional or something else (say a personal loan from a brother).

But, in all of this, there are better ways than just chugging along, paying off debt, even with a good plan of attack.

It involves understanding both "debt" and "credit". They are not the same thing. One must truly grasp "cash flow" as a concept.

Lehi

[NightSG]

48 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

15% for a car is a lot, though.  You'll be better off putting the car on a separate loan on its own.

15% unsecured to go buy a $2000 car is less than the added cost of full coverage insurance while paying off lower rate a car loan.  Remember we're talking a max 18mo term here, and likely with some overpayments to knock it down around 12mo.

[mordorbund]

On 4/18/2016 at 1:29 PM, Vort said:

I have a friend (a really, really close friend, almost like a brother but much closer, someone with whom I have a uniquely intimate relationship, such that we can basically read each other's thoughts -- pretty amazing, really) who homeschools.

Off topic:

I have a similarly close friend. My ideal day with him would include the following things I've never done with him before:

• giving each other wheelbarrow rides
• arm wrestle each other (can you believe we've never done this?! We've done chess, checkers, basketball, but never arm wrestling).
• now that I mention it, thumb wrestling
• licking his elbow (he's licked my nose before)
• piggy back rides
• shaking his hand at the end of the day (we've had hugs and high fives, but never shook hands)