Writing in the temple?

[dahlia]

On 6/23/2016 at 4:23 PM, Jane_Doe said:

Denver, and it's 95-100 outside with tons of bugs.  And also the reason I don't want to write once I get home (I have to drive two hours through rush hour Denver, and then from Denver back to WY).

Could you sit in the car and write before you leave? It seems the impressions would still be fresh from the temple to the car. I've never seen anyone write in the temple and the only place it seems appropriate to do so would be the foyer. Our changing rooms always seem so busy, I don't know if I would want to negatively affect someone else's need to get in and change before a session by me just sitting there and writing.  

[Jane_Doe]

8 hours ago, dahlia said:

Could you sit in the car and write before you leave? It seems the impressions would still be fresh from the temple to the car. I've never seen anyone write in the temple and the only place it seems appropriate to do so would be the foyer. Our changing rooms always seem so busy, I don't know if I would want to negatively affect someone else's need to get in and change before a session by me just sitting there and writing.  

I don't know... this whole thing bothers me.   Prayer, mediation, and recording impressions are something that should be ENCOURAGED IN the temple, not literally banished to the outside (or at best the waiting room).

(Sorry about the tone there... this whole thing has me very upset).

[LeSellers]

19 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Prayer, mediation, and recording impressions are something that should be ENCOURAGED IN the temple

And, except for the recording, they are. We can pray in the Celestial Room, in the Baptistry, in the Chapel. Anywhere we can pray, we can meditate, and read the scriptures (there are scriptures in each of those places).

19 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

this whole thing has me very upset

Obviously, but why?

Lehi

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

25 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I don't know... this whole thing bothers me.   Prayer, mediation, and recording impressions are something that should be ENCOURAGED IN the temple, not literally banished to the outside (or at best the waiting room).

(Sorry about the tone there... this whole thing has me very upset).

Jane, prayer and meditation are encouraged in the temple. Its just the writing that is questionable.  I say this kindly...remember you haven't been to the temple yet, so how can you determine what should be allowed or not?  Wait until you go and then I think you'll understand better.

Until then, think of a Catholic Mass. I haven't been to one, but Ive heard enough about it, I think. As I understand it in a Mass there is a very specific format that never varies. And there is a lot of audience involvement, standing, sitting, kneeling....I've heard it can be tricky for someone attending the first time.  Now can you imagine someone sitting in that meeting taking notes? I can't. I don't think that would be appropriate. Prayers and meditation, yes but writing, no.

Sometimes there is simply a place and time....

Edited June 27, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Jane, prayer and meditation are encouraged in the temple. Its just the writing that is questionable.  I say this kindly...remember you haven't been to the temple yet, so how can you determine what should be allowed or not?  Wait until you go and then I think you'll understand better.

Until then, think of a Catholic Mass. I haven't been to one, but Ive heard enough about it, I think. As I understand it in a Mass there is a very specific format that never varies. And there is a lot of audience involvement, standing, sitting, kneeling....I've heard it can be tricky for someone attending the first time.  Now can you imagine someone sitting in that meeting taking notes? I can't. I don't think that would be appropriate. Prayers and meditation, yes but writing, no.

Sometimes there is simply a place and time....

Good description of a Catholic mass. I've seen people who go for the first time (at a friends wedding/funeral or something) and look totally out of place. Basically when in Rome, do as the Romans (pun intended). 

[Jane_Doe]

27 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

And, except for the recording, they are. We can pray in the Celestial Room, in the Baptistry, in the Chapel. Anywhere we can pray, we can meditate, and read the scriptures (there are scriptures in each of those places).

But by leaving out recording you are leaving out a critical part of the whole process.  

Obviously, but why?

It's a couple of reasons... I... some of my key spiritual are writing.  I spread and share my testimony via writing-- and that includes sharing it with me.  It's the way I clear the clutter of my head, the way I hear the still small voice, the way I remember it.  Re-reading my written thoughts, prayers, and answers to those prayers re-vitalizes me and my testimony.  I... it's a huge part of me and my gifts from God... and it feels like I'm being told to discard them outside-- which isn't right.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

But by leaving out recording you are leaving out a critical part of the whole process.  

It's a couple of reasons... I... some of my key spiritual are writing.  I spread and share my testimony via writing-- and that includes sharing it with me.  It's the way I clear the clutter of my head, the way I hear the still small voice, the way I remember it.  Re-reading my written thoughts, prayers, and answers to those prayers re-vitalizes me and my testimony.  I... it's a huge part of me and my gifts from God... and it feels like I'm being told to discard them outside-- which isn't right.

All great reasons Jane. I'm not sure why they won't allow writing in a temple. I don't even leave my house without a notebook and Bic mechanical pencils. 

 

[LeSellers]

4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

it feels like I'm being told to discard them outside

Who said anything about "discard[ing] them"?

I'm a writer, too. I often find that my best work (aside from typos and similar errors) is my first draft. But I usually think about what I'm writing for a while before I can really get the feeling into the right words.

Meditation in the Celestial Room would improve my thoughts about what had just happened. That may just be me, but I am having a very hard time understanding your issue here.

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I don't even leave my house without a notebook and Bic mechanical pencils. 

It's much the same with me. I spent more than two decades in the Army, and one of the first things I learned (and one of the few I've truly retained) is to have something to write with and on at all times.

Lehi

[Jane_Doe]

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

All great reasons Jane. I'm not sure why they won't allow writing in a temple. I don't even leave my house without a notebook and Bic mechanical pencils. 

 

Best I can tell, having scoured LDS.org, temple prep books, general authority writings etc- it isn't actually forbidden anywhere.  Rather (in general terms), we ARE instructed to record impressions from the temple, to remember our experiences there, and remember how the Lord impacts out lives.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Best I can tell, having scoured LDS.org, temple prep books, general authority writings etc- it isn't actually forbidden anywhere.  Rather (in general terms), we ARE instructed to record impressions from the temple, to remember our experiences there, and remember how the Lord impacts out lives.

You might be looked at funny, but don't worry about that. My first time in the temple my hair was down, earrings in, tattoos showing-it was wild. The looks I got were priceless. I would usually just wink back.  

[Guest]

Do they still give new (female) attendees a chance to chat with the temple matron? I would just ask her. My guess is that note-taking isn't prohibited, but they do have some things or places that are restricted. 

[Just_A_Guy]

One other thought:  many other cultures (even some in scripture, like the ancient Hebrews) have a strong tradition of memorized oral history and religious liturgy that is has largely from western culture with our affinity for writing-and-forgetting.  The temple, with its apparent proscription on writing at key places, may represent an opportunity for individuals to rediscover that disappearing art form and offer another way to commune with the past.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Jane_Doe]

36 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Do they still give new (female) attendees a chance to chat with the temple matron? I would just ask her. My guess is that note-taking isn't prohibited, but they do have some things or places that are restricted. 

Yes... but that's a long wait ahead of me.  If I could, I would drive down and try to talk to her this week, but logistics don't allow it (it's a +6 hour car ride round trip),

[The Folk Prophet]

16 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

this whole thing has me very upset

???

Why on earth are you upset? Did I miss something? As near as I've read no one has said, really, one way or the other.

That being said, I do think that, generally speaking, taking notes in the temple is not allowed -- but not like some Nazi thing. One could certainly take notes in the locker room and/or the lobby. Taking notes during the session would be very difficult and problematic anyhow.

But even if we went with the full-on "no note taking" thing, I cannot fathom why that would have someone "very upset". I can see someone thinking, "hmm, that's strange. Oh well...too bad." But very upset?

Edited June 27, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest]

I don't think minimizing someone's feelings ever goes anywhere toward helping them resolve said feelings.

[Jane_Doe]

11 hours ago, LeSellers said:

Meditation in the Celestial Room would improve my thoughts about what had just happened. That may just be me, but I am having a very hard time understanding your issue here.

Writing is how I pray and mediate.  Being told that I'm not allowed to write is effectively being told I'm not allowed to pray in the temple.  (There are other reasons too, but this is a big one).

[The Folk Prophet]

10 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I don't think minimizing someone's feelings ever goes anywhere toward helping them resolve said feelings.

So any time anyone flips out about anything, no matter how irrational, the best response is to legitimize it, acknowledge that their irrational overreactions are perfectly acceptable and that the issue isn't with them, but that whatever said policy or standard they have a problem with must therefore, actually, be problematic?

*sigh*

No wonder the world is such a mess.

[estradling75]

49 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Writing is how I pray and mediate.  Being told that I'm not allowed to write is effectively being told I'm not allowed to pray in the temple.  (There are other reasons too, but this is a big one).

Except you are not being told you can't write your impressions...

You are only being told that at some places in the temple you will have to temporary postpone your desire to write until you reach a point it will not be a distraction from what it going on (for you and for others)

Do you whip out your notebook during sacrament and write while making everyone else wait for you to take the bread and water?   Of course you don't... because you know that no matter the impression you can write it down later.  The temple is the same way...  Only the ordinances are a bit longer

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Do you whip out your notebook during sacrament and write while making everyone else wait for you to take the bread and water?   Of course you don't... because you know that no matter the impression you can write it down later.  The temple is the same way...  Only the ordinances are a bit longer

When I don't have the sacrament tray right in front of me?  I write the entire time.  

[estradling75]

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

When I don't have the sacrament tray right in front of me?  I write the entire time.  

And???(are you countering my point or agreeing with it)  You clearly know you need to participate in the sacrament... and to do so you need  have your hands free so you must wait to write your thoughts until you are done... When you were baptized you were not writing in your notebook while the ordinance was happening... in fact I dare say you had to wait from the moment you entered the water until after you got out and dried off a bit... Even though you were encouraged to write and document the even before and after... 

When you were given the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmed a member of the church you didn't have write while they had hands on your head and were saying the prayer did you?  Or did you wait until the prayer was done and document it in writing a short time later...

Seems to me that all your experiences with the ordinances of the gospel have required you to wait.  Why would you expect the temple to be any different?

[estradling75]

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

When I don't have the sacrament tray right in front of me?  I write the entire time.  

And???(are you countering my point or agreeing with it)  You clearly know you need to participate in the sacrament... and to do so you need  have your hands free so you must wait to write your thoughts until you are done... When you were baptized you were not writing in your notebook while the ordinance was happening... in fact I dare say you had to wait from the moment you entered the water until after you got out and dried off a bit... Even though you were encouraged to write and document the even before and after... 

When you were given the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmed a member of the church you didn't have write while they had hands on your head and were saying the prayer did you?  Or did you wait until the prayer was done and document it in writing a short time later...

Seems to me that all your experiences with the ordinances of the gospel have required you to wait.  Why would you expect the temple to be any different?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So any time anyone flips out about anything, no matter how irrational, the best response is to legitimize it, acknowledge that their irrational overreactions are perfectly acceptable and that the issue isn't with them, but that whatever said policy or standard they have a problem with must therefore, actually, be problematic?

*sigh*

No wonder the world is such a mess.

Is the best answer to flip out back at them? Sometimes trying to find out where they're coming from does a world of good. It might take a little more time and effort on your part, but I'm certain it's more effective in the long run.

Disagreeing with someone does not necessitate being disagreeable. 

[The Folk Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Is the best answer to flip out back at them? Sometimes trying to find out where they're coming from does a world of good. It might take a little more time and effort on your part, but I'm certain it's more effective in the long run.

Disagreeing with someone does not necessitate being disagreeable. 

This is not what I did. I stated, quite calmly, that I do not understand why this would be "very upsetting". That's hardly flipping out. Nor do I consider my response disagreeable (beyond, perhaps, the inclusion of the "on earth" in the question...which I added to emphasize the level to which I did not understand the matter, but in retrospect I can see how it might be taken poorly by the overly sensitive). I asked her why it was so upsetting and explained that I do not understand why it would be. I can understand why there is some level of consternation at having to alter the way one worships, of course. But why is it so extreme as to be "very" anything? I am asking by way of trying to find out where she's coming from. Your implication that I am not is also confusing. I said I did not understand and asked why. So how does that fit into not taking time and effort to figure out where she's coming from?

Moreover, are you not, somewhat hypocritically, treating me the same way you are accusing me of treating her?

[Jane_Doe]

26 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

And???(are you countering my point or agreeing with it)  You clearly know you need to participate in the sacrament... and to do so you need  have your hands free so you must wait to write your thoughts until you are done... When you were baptized you were not writing in your notebook while the ordinance was happening... in fact I dare say you had to wait from the moment you entered the water until after you got out and dried off a bit... Even though you were encouraged to write and document the even before and after... 

When you were given the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmed a member of the church you didn't have write while they had hands on your head and were saying the prayer did you?  Or did you wait until the prayer was done and document it in writing a short time later...

Seems to me that all your experiences with the ordinances of the gospel have required you to wait.  Why would you expect the temple to be any different?

I do participate in the sacrament, but when the tray is not directly in front of me, I write: pondering on His sacrifice.  There is a large amount of time when your hands are not actively doing something in ordinances.  There is down time in the temple, such as sitting in the celestial room afterwards. 

[Jane_Doe]

26 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

And???(are you countering my point or agreeing with it)  You clearly know you need to participate in the sacrament... and to do so you need  have your hands free so you must wait to write your thoughts until you are done... When you were baptized you were not writing in your notebook while the ordinance was happening... in fact I dare say you had to wait from the moment you entered the water until after you got out and dried off a bit... Even though you were encouraged to write and document the even before and after... 

When you were given the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmed a member of the church you didn't have write while they had hands on your head and were saying the prayer did you?  Or did you wait until the prayer was done and document it in writing a short time later...

Seems to me that all your experiences with the ordinances of the gospel have required you to wait.  Why would you expect the temple to be any different?

I do participate in the sacrament, but when the tray is not directly in front of me, I write: pondering on His sacrifice.  There is a large amount of time when your hands are not actively doing something in ordinances.  There is down time in the temple, such as sitting in the celestial room afterwards.