Having Faith...what does it entail??

[summer]

I don't even know if I am going to be able to explain what I am thinking...but I am going to try because this is so hard for me to comprehend from a spiritual perspective. What is faith? I have horrible anxiety and I worry about everyone all of the time, I am always anxious and want to be able to make sure that everyone is always okay...I wear myself out mentally, emotionally and physically. I know that I live out of fear and not faith and I DO NOT want to live this way, I am miserable living this way. I do trust Heavenly Father completely...however...you know how "they" always say "do what you can and Heavenly Father will do there rest? Well I overwhelm myself by doing absolutely EVERYTHING I can!! I drive my teenagers anywhere that seems even remotely scary for their friends to take them, I watch my younger children like an absolute hawk, I feel like I have to be 50 steps ahead of everyone all of the time. BUT as my children are getting older I realize that I have to let them go...I have to let them grow and learn...so if they are asked to go with one of their friends and they need to drive on the freeway for example...do I drive them (because I CAN take them and I am always willing to) OR do I allow them to go with their friends and have faith that Heavenly Father will protect them?

For example...in an instance where a mom contracts the zika virus during pregnancy...some baby are born with birth defects and some babies are not born with birth defects. In these instances can we have faith that exactly what was "meant to happen" from a spiritual perspective happened? Can we have faith in Heavenly Father in these cases? Should we have faith and still get pregnant if we know that we can very likely be exposed to the pika virus and that it could potentially harm the baby? Or should we not get pregnant to avoid anything potentially harming the baby? What does it mean to have faith in these cases? What would our Heavenly Father have us do?

Does any of this make any sense? It is so hard to explain how I feel...are we punished by Heavenly Father by not doing enough? Will He protect us if we are meant to be protected? How do we live with faith and not with fear?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by summer

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, summer said:

In an instance where someone may feel that their baby has autism because of a vaccine...do you have faith that this was Heavenly Father's will or should the baby not have been given the vaccine

I can't comment on that example really, because that is contrary to what has been proven, and to believe that it was God's will that someone get autism from a vaccine would be silly. 

I don't know about everything, but I do believe that our trials on this earth (disease, grief, etc.) are by and large a consequence of living in a fallen world. I think it is a rare case where Heavenly Father gives someone a specific malady on purpose in order to teach them or their people a lesson. We have mortal bodies that will get sick. That's just a fact of this life.

For instance, some people have a hard time having children and some never do. I don't believe it's because Heavenly Father pointed at them and said they needed the lessons that come from childlessness; I believe that it's something that happens to some people because of the nature of being a mortal in an imperfect world. It's sad and it's hard, and Heavenly Father has provided ways to either overcome, or to be comforted and find peace. (This is one I had to come to personally through a lot of hard work.)

The hard part is having faith that whatever life throws at us, the Lord can take us through it.

I also know what clinical anxiety is and how it feels, and it sounds like you might have it. Life can be better. I know this. There's no shame in seeking help (Though there will be some who try to convince you otherwise. These people can suck a pickle and should not be listened to.).

[prisonchaplain]

Jesus is called The Prince of Peace.  The Holy Spirit is called The Comforter.  The psalmist David says God would have us to lie down by still waters.  While we are promised trials and persecution, we are also promised the strength and peace of God. Pray for it--I imagine you are.  Seek out wise counsel--both here and "in the real world." Godly therapy, as was recommended above, may be of help.  Do not settle for a life of anxiety, fear, worry, and distress.  The Master wants better for us--but we must reach out for his precious balm of Gilead.

[summer]

1 hour ago, summer said:

For example...in an instance where a mom contracts the zika virus during pregnancy...some baby are born with birth defects and some babies are not born with birth defects. In these instances can we have faith that exactly what was "meant to happen" from a spiritual perspective happened? Can we have faith in Heavenly Father in these cases? Should we have faith and still get pregnant if we know that we can very likely be exposed to the pika virus and that it could potentially harm the baby? Or should we not get pregnant to avoid anything potentially harming the baby? What does it mean to have faith in these cases? What would our Heavenly Father have us do?

Thank you both for your comments, I appreciate them very much. I edited above and added this...I think this explains my thought process somewhat...what would you think in a case such as this?

[summer]

1 hour ago, Eowyn said:

I can't comment on that example really, because that is contrary to what has been proven, and to believe that it was God's will that someone get autism from a vaccine would be silly. 

Just wanted to say that you left out the part where I specifically said that I do NOT believe this to be true and I am NOT saying this is the case...this is something that a friend of mine happens to be struggling with so I was just saying it as an example

[Guest]

With the zika thing, I think it's a valid concern if you're in S. America or Texas, and my only advice would be to take it to prayer and make those decisions with Heavenly Father and your husband. If you live in say. S. Dakota where you are at virtually no risk and you're still anxious about it, I'd say that's not really "normal" as far as mental health.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I also recommend therapy. It has helped me a lot. I have anxiety too. You've read Elder Holland's talk, Like A Broken Vessel, right? He says seeking help for mental health issues is just like seeking a doctor for a broken arm.

[summer]

So do you think just by reading my post that it looks like a mental health issue and not a faith/spiritual issue? Thank you!

 

[prisonchaplain]

The OP strikes as the kind of person people like because she gets things done, and makes share every detail is attended to. Heavenly Father grants us joy and peace, and the super-busy "detail people" deserve extra portions...'cause they often won't take their own portions.  :-)

[summer]

Thank you prisonchaplain  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

8 minutes ago, summer said:

So do you think just by reading my post that it looks like a mental health issue and not a faith/spiritual issue? Thank you!

I think you sound like a wonderful, loving mother. It's normal for moms to feel anxious about their children,  but it does sound like your anxiety is something that could be lessened with therapy. There's nothing wrong with that. Therapy has helped me a lot.

About faith, I agree that it is good to work on that, but I don't think it is the only issue for you. To develop this kind of faith that you asked about takes a long time, and comes through trials that cause you to rely on him. To develop it, keep trying, keep praying, keep reading your scriptures,  and attending church. I know...Sunday School answers, but it's true. 

[The Folk Prophet]

As to the question of what faith entails here's my take:

I had a bit of an epiphany once when reading my scriptures and Nephi said to his brethren in 1 Nephi 7:12 "Yea, and how is it that ye have forgotten that the Lord is able to do all things according to his will, for the children of men, if it so be that they exercise faith in him? Wherefore, let us be faithful to him."

They way he said it struck a chord with me. He's basically saying let's have faith, but he phrased it differently: Let's be faithful. And I thought about what it means to be faithful and it opened up my whole world on how I view faith.

So many see faith as equivalent to belief. Just believe hard enough or whatever. But I don't think that's accurate at all. If I'm faithful to my wife it has nothing to do with believing in her. It has to do with commitment and loyalty. I am faithful to her by being true.

This is faith. It is loyalty, commitment, honor, etc. It stems from belief and trust, yes. They are components, and important ones. We are unlikely to be faithful to someone we do not believe in, certainly, and probably not to one we do not trust. But that doesn't mean we cannot. We can, actually, be perfectly faithful even when our belief or our trust is less than 100%. Even when we do not believe or trust, theoretically. We can still be absolutely loyal. And that is, to me, the essence of faith.

[summer]

16 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I think you sound like a wonderful, loving mother. It's normal for moms to feel anxious about their children,  but it does sound like your anxiety is something that could be lessened with therapy. There's nothing wrong with that. Therapy has helped me a lot.

About faith, I agree that it is good to work on that, but I don't think it is the only issue for you. To develop this kind of faith that you asked about takes a long time, and comes through trials that cause you to rely on him. To develop it, keep trying, keep praying, keep reading your scriptures,  and attending church. I know...Sunday School answers, but it's true. 

Thank you so much, you are so sweet. I do think I will look for a therapist...I think I definitely need to talk to someone who can help me see that the way I feel isn't normal...so often it feel completely normal to me, but when I burst into tears from exhaustion, I know it probably isn't. And I always hide my tears because I don't want anyone else to know how overwhelmed I am feeling...I just want to be happy. Thank you for you help and your wonderful advice <3

 

[summer]

11 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

As to the question of what faith entails here's my take:

I had a bit of an epiphany once when reading my scriptures and Nephi said to his brethren in 1 Nephi 7:12 "Yea, and how is it that ye have forgotten that the Lord is able to do all things according to his will, for the children of men, if it so be that they exercise faith in him? Wherefore, let us be faithful to him."

They way he said it struck a chord with me. He's basically saying let's have faith, but he phrased it differently: Let's be faithful. And I thought about what it means to be faithful and it opened up my whole world on how I view faith.

So many see faith as equivalent to belief. Just believe hard enough or whatever. But I don't think that's accurate at all. If I'm faithful to my wife it has nothing to do with believing in her. It has to do with commitment and loyalty. I am faithful to her by being true.

This is faith. It is loyalty, commitment, honor, etc. It stems from belief and trust, yes. They are components, and important ones. We are unlikely to be faithful to someone we do not believe in, certainly, and probably not to one we do not trust. But that doesn't mean we cannot. We can, actually, be perfectly faithful even when our belief or our trust is less than 100%. Even when we do not believe or trust, theoretically. We can still be absolutely loyal. And that is, to me, the essence of faith.

Wow!!! I love this!!! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, this makes so much sense to me, thank you so much!!!

[TeresaA]

It could be that what you are experiencing has less to do with a lack of faith, and more to do with an anxiety disorder. I say that kindly. I have family members who struggle with anxiety. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain, a medical condition that needs medical help in dealing with. Seek some competent therapy.  

[TeresaA]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

As to the question of what faith entails here's my take:

I had a bit of an epiphany once when reading my scriptures and Nephi said to his brethren in 1 Nephi 7:12 "Yea, and how is it that ye have forgotten that the Lord is able to do all things according to his will, for the children of men, if it so be that they exercise faith in him? Wherefore, let us be faithful to him."

They way he said it struck a chord with me. He's basically saying let's have faith, but he phrased it differently: Let's be faithful. And I thought about what it means to be faithful and it opened up my whole world on how I view faith.

So many see faith as equivalent to belief. Just believe hard enough or whatever. But I don't think that's accurate at all. If I'm faithful to my wife it has nothing to do with believing in her. It has to do with commitment and loyalty. I am faithful to her by being true.

This is faith. It is loyalty, commitment, honor, etc. It stems from belief and trust, yes. They are components, and important ones. We are unlikely to be faithful to someone we do not believe in, certainly, and probably not to one we do not trust. But that doesn't mean we cannot. We can, actually, be perfectly faithful even when our belief or our trust is less than 100%. Even when we do not believe or trust, theoretically. We can still be absolutely loyal. And that is, to me, the essence of faith.

I do like this. However, having faith is not just being faithful. There is another dimension to it than that, I believe. For it was by faith that people had in Jesus during his ministry that he was able to do many miracles. 

[james12]

14 hours ago, summer said:

I don't even know if I am going to be able to explain what I am thinking...but I am going to try because this is so hard for me to comprehend from a spiritual perspective. What is faith? I have horrible anxiety and I worry about everyone all of the time, I am always anxious and want to be able to make sure that everyone is always okay...I wear myself out mentally, emotionally and physically. I know that I live out of fear and not faith and I DO NOT want to live this way, I am miserable living this way. I do trust Heavenly Father completely...however...you know how "they" always say "do what you can and Heavenly Father will do there rest? Well I overwhelm myself by doing absolutely EVERYTHING I can!! I drive my teenagers anywhere that seems even remotely scary for their friends to take them, I watch my younger children like an absolute hawk, I feel like I have to be 50 steps ahead of everyone all of the time. BUT as my children are getting older I realize that I have to let them go...I have to let them grow and learn...so if they are asked to go with one of their friends and they need to drive on the freeway for example...do I drive them (because I CAN take them and I am always willing to) OR do I allow them to go with their friends and have faith that Heavenly Father will protect them?

For example...in an instance where a mom contracts the zika virus during pregnancy...some baby are born with birth defects and some babies are not born with birth defects. In these instances can we have faith that exactly what was "meant to happen" from a spiritual perspective happened? Can we have faith in Heavenly Father in these cases? Should we have faith and still get pregnant if we know that we can very likely be exposed to the pika virus and that it could potentially harm the baby? Or should we not get pregnant to avoid anything potentially harming the baby? What does it mean to have faith in these cases? What would our Heavenly Father have us do?

It sounds like you paint most situations as black or white. This creates a lot of "should" statements in your mind. You should drive your son, you should not get pregnant, etc. By creating these black and white scenarios you convince yourself you must act or else you are a failure. So in the example above, the automatic thought is, "I should drive my son because if he gets hurt it is my fault". Do you see the problem with this thinking? You have created a distortion in your mind where if you don't act it is your fault. With this mental distortion in place either you will be filled with anxiety or you must drive your son. Anything less means you have failed. Does this sound familiar?

But let's examine the situation. First, if you didn't drive him what are the chances that he gets in an accident? Probably very slim. Second, let's suppose you didn't drive him and he got in an accident. Is it really your fault because you didn't drive him? Could it be that this is just an accident and you don't need to assign blame to yourself or anyone else? Accidents happen, you cannot prevent them.

My suggestion is to change this all or nothing thinking and these unrealistic should scenarios you create in your mind. Examine the thinking before you act. Dr. David Burns in a great book called "Feeling Good" suggests something he calls "Daily Record of Dysfunctional Thoughts". When you have one of these thoughts that paints your actions as black and white examine them. I think it helps to write them down.

1. Situation - Briefly describe what is happening

2. Emotions - Describe your feelings

3. Automatic Thoughts - Describe the thoughts that first enter your mind 

4. Rational Thoughts -  Write down what a more rational response would be

5. Outcome - Write down how you are feeling after thinking more rationally 

14 hours ago, summer said:

Does any of this make any sense? It is so hard to explain how I feel...are we punished by Heavenly Father by not doing enough? Will He protect us if we are meant to be protected? How do we live with faith and not with fear?

I am quickly running out of time, but these feelings of guilt are another mental distortion. The distorted thinking follows these lines. First, I have done something I shouldn't have, or failed to do something I should, because my actions fall short of my moral standards (in this case God's expectations). Second, this failure to act shows I'm a bad person, or tainted, etc. This concept of doing something "bad" causes guilt. It appears to me you have pushed this feeling into every situation. Don't make every situation and every second a moral dilemma. You are not "punished" by Heavenly Father for failing to act in every scenario. I can see you are a wonderful person who has created some irrational expectations for yourself. Start to let these go and you will be amazed at how your burden in your mind is lifted. You will probably feel a weight off of your shoulders you have not felt in a long time.

[CV75]

15 hours ago, summer said:

What is faith?

I'd say that one of way recognizing it is that it is what you experience by partaking of the sacrament without undue interference from these types of mortal concerns. I encourage you to build upon that thought and feeling.

I was once stuck in traffic and feeling very impatient. Then it dawned on my I wasn't helping faith increase in the world with that attitude. I realized the Light of Christ was operating all around, but I was focusing on the barriers to my freedom of movement and peace of mind. One I recognized His presence in the sky, trees, etc., watching over all of us, moving and creating freely, and inviting me to partake in that, my impatience left.

I also realized that when faith increases in the earth (D&C 1;17-23), my faith increases also (and vice-versa).

Here's a great talk: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/live-by-faith-and-not-by-fear?lang=eng

“I know that many of you are concerned about raising your children during these difficult times and increasing their faith. When my wife and I were starting our family in the San Francisco Bay Area, we had that same concern. At a critical point our stake members were advised by Elder Harold B. Lee, then a member of the Twelve, that we could raise our families in righteousness if we would:

1.      Follow the prophet.

2.      Create the true spirit of the gospel in our hearts and homes.

3.      Be a light to those among whom we live.

4.      Focus on the ordinances and principles taught in the temple. (See D&C 115:5; Harold B. Lee, “Your Light to Be a Standard unto the Nations,” Ensign, Aug. 1973, 3–4.)

“As we followed this counsel, our faith increased and our fears decreased. I believe we can raise righteous children anywhere in the world if they are taught religious principles in the home.”

[The Folk Prophet]

10 hours ago, TeresaA said:

However, having faith is not just being faithful. There is another dimension to it than that, I believe. For it was by faith that people had in Jesus during his ministry that he was able to do many miracles. 

You'll need to support this. I don't see it. How is being faithful separate from having faith? Being faithful entails belief, dedication, loyalty, trust, honor, obligation, obedience, etc. What's missing?

[summer]

3 hours ago, james12 said:

It sounds like you paint most situations as black or white. This creates a lot of "should" statements in your mind. You should drive your son, you should not get pregnant, etc. By creating these black and white scenarios you convince yourself you must act or else you are a failure. So in the example above, the automatic thought is, "I should drive my son because if he gets hurt it is my fault". Do you see the problem with this thinking? You have created a distortion in your mind where if you don't act it is your fault. With this mental distortion in place either you will be filled with anxiety or you must drive your son. Anything less means you have failed. Does this sound familiar?

But let's examine the situation. First, if you didn't drive him what are the chances that he gets in an accident? Probably very slim. Second, let's suppose you didn't drive him and he got in an accident. Is it really your fault because you didn't drive him? Could it be that this is just an accident and you don't need to assign blame to yourself or anyone else? Accidents happen, you cannot prevent them.

My suggestion is to change this all or nothing thinking and these unrealistic should scenarios you create in your mind. Examine the thinking before you act. Dr. David Burns in a great book called "Feeling Good" suggests something he calls "Daily Record of Dysfunctional Thoughts". When you have one of these thoughts that paints your actions as black and white examine them. I think it helps to write them down.

1. Situation - Briefly describe what is happening

2. Emotions - Describe your feelings

3. Automatic Thoughts - Describe the thoughts that first enter your mind 

4. Rational Thoughts -  Write down what a more rational response would be

5. Outcome - Write down how you are feeling after thinking more rationally 

I am quickly running out of time, but these feelings of guilt are another mental distortion. The distorted thinking follows these lines. First, I have done something I shouldn't have, or failed to do something I should, because my actions fall short of my moral standards (in this case God's expectations). Second, this failure to act shows I'm a bad person, or tainted, etc. This concept of doing something "bad" causes guilt. It appears to me you have pushed this feeling into every situation. Don't make every situation and every second a moral dilemma. You are not "punished" by Heavenly Father for failing to act in every scenario. I can see you are a wonderful person who has created some irrational expectations for yourself. Start to let these go and you will be amazed at how your burden in your mind is lifted. You will probably feel a weight off of your shoulders you have not felt in a long time.

Wow! Thank you SO much with all of my heart for taking the time to respond to me!! This was like a huge light bulb for me...you completely opened my eyes and I believe what you said is truly an answer to my prayers. I think that you somehow you were able to completely understand where I am coming from and put it into perspective for me. I am definitely an all or nothing thinker...but I have never thought of this in the way you explained it and you are so right. Thank you SO much!! It was very kind of you to take to time to help me, thank you!!

[summer]

Thank you so much CV75, I love what you said and I am looking forward to reading the talk you mentioned, thank you so much!

[anatess2]

Summer, I think what you need is balance.

Let's start with the 2nd greatest commandment - Love Your Neighbors as Yourself.

That commandment is a balance.  Your Neighbors on one end, Yourself on the other.  The action is LOVE.  What is Love?  Simply put, Love is that desire to bring us closer to Christ.  Love your Neighbors means you desire for them to be closer to Christ.  Love yourself means you desire for you to be closer to Christ.  The balance, therefore, is that both Neighbors and Yourself are getting closer to Christ.

So, if your desire to bring your children closer to Christ is causing YOU to get farther from Christ, then it needs to be changed.  If your desire to get closer to Christ is bringing your children farther from Christ, then it needs to be changed.

As an example:

**  You're wondering if you should drive your kids on the freeway instead of trusting that they will be fine... Okay, how does driving your kids on the freeway bring them closer to Christ?  You might think, there's a better chance they will remain alive so they can do the good works of the Lord.  Or you can think, but then they won't be able to have the skills necessary (being able to drive on the freeway) to do the works of the Lord.  So, for you, what do you think is more likely - that they will die on the freeway, or they will not have skills?  Then you decide which is the better Loving option and leave the rest to faith.  For example - if you decide to let them drive without you, then you can instead pray and have faith that Heavenly Father's Will is to preserve them from death at that moment, or that if they should die, then it is the Will of the Father for them to be so.  You can take extra steps to mitigate the risk of death by reminding the kids to behave, be aware, follow road rules, put on their seatbelts, etc., but in the end, send them out and kneel down in prayer...

On Zika virus.
Some children are born with small heads.  Is this the Will of the Father?  That's the wrong question, I think.  The question is, what should I do to Love these Neighbors with small heads to bring them closer to Christ?  We already know that the Will of the Father is for all of us to be closer to Christ regardless of our mortal conditions.

 

 

[summer]

47 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Summer, I think what you need is balance.

Let's start with the 2nd greatest commandment - Love Your Neighbors as Yourself.

That commandment is a balance.  Your Neighbors on one end, Yourself on the other.  The action is LOVE.  What is Love?  Simply put, Love is that desire to bring us closer to Christ.  Love your Neighbors means you desire for them to be closer to Christ.  Love yourself means you desire for you to be closer to Christ.  The balance, therefore, is that both Neighbors and Yourself are getting closer to Christ.

So, if your desire to bring your children closer to Christ is causing YOU to get farther from Christ, then it needs to be changed.  If your desire to get closer to Christ is bringing your children farther from Christ, then it needs to be changed.

 

Thank you so much! You are absolutely right that I need balance in my life! I feel SO out of balance and my husband tells me all of the time that I need balance, I think it is very perceptive that you picked up on this! I DO NOT know how to get balance in my life and I have often said that I think my worries have inadvertently become my religion in a way...I do not want it to be this way at all, but by trying to figure out how to have more faith in my Heavenly Father I feel like I am not as close to Him because I am worrying SO much and almost trying to control everything on my own...because I don't understand what it means to have faith?? Does that make sense? I overthink everything and I worry about everything! 

 

For example with the Zika virus...I do understand completely where you are coming from BUT I feel like I would need to know if it was Heavenly Father's will...I would assume in an instance like this that if the child was meant to have no ill effects from the virus that Heavenly Father could intervene in the baby's life and make sure that he or she was not affected by the virus, is that correct? And if the child was meant to have the virus then he would allow that to happen? Is this thinking incorrect?

 

Then where else I get confused is...if I lived somewhere where the Zika virus was prevalent would Heavenly Father want me to get pregnant and have Faith that everything would turn out exactly how it was meant to OR would He want me to not get pregnant until doctors had figured things out? But then is that not having Faith because I am trying to take control of the situation?

 

 

[anatess2]

23 minutes ago, summer said:

For example with the Zika virus...I do understand completely where you are coming from BUT I feel like I would need to know if it was Heavenly Father's will...I would assume in an instance like this that if the child was meant to have no ill effects from the virus that Heavenly Father could intervene in the baby's life and make sure that he or she was not affected by the virus, is that correct? And if the child was meant to have the virus then he would allow that to happen? Is this thinking incorrect?

 

Then where else I get confused is...if I lived somewhere where the Zika virus was prevalent would Heavenly Father want me to get pregnant and have Faith that everything would turn out exactly how it was meant to OR would He want me to not get pregnant until doctors had figured things out? But then is that not having Faith because I am trying to take control of the situation?

 

 

Summer, here is how you can achieve balance... There is NOTHING you can do about whether a child will have zika or not besides putting on mosquito repellent.  Therefore, it is not important to know WHY a child got zika beyond the - zika carrier mosquito.  Trying to figure out Heavenly Father's Will in regards to why the child got the virus is, therefore, not necessary - you can let that one go to lighten your load.

What you can put on your plate is what you have control over - putting on mosquito repellent.  The commandment to be fruitful and multiply does not change just because there's zika carrying mosquitos.  If you feel that moving to another State that has no zika carrying mosquitos is your idea of mosquito repellent, then that's fine... but it's overmuch.  There is nowhere in this world that you can move to that will not have mortal maladies... if it's not zika, then it will be hurricanes, or tornadoes, or coral snakes, or alligators, or an out-of-control bus driver...  you cannot achieve balance if you do not acknowledge that we are in MORTAL life and you are very small compared to the mortal world such that you will have to rely on the comfort of the Holy Ghost that magnifies us.  Therefore, choose your battles - choose what you want to battle (mosquito repellent) and choose what battles you will hand over to God (tornadoes and bus drivers).

Make sense?

If you are having a difficult time putting things in perspective (the urge to do "overmuch"), then a therapist can help you think things through.

Edited June 30, 2016 by anatess2

[summer]

Thank you anatess2 what you said definitely makes sense...for some reason I just have a hard time wrapping my head around it all. But I do agree very much with what you are saying. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me, I really appreciate it! Thank you!