For the men, who would you marry?

[SpiritDragon]

Assuming you're in love with the ladies in question and all things being equal except for the difference in the poll. Also these differences are clearly mutually exclusive - the one doesn't read escapist smut and the other has never slept around. Please share your perspective and why.

[NeedleinA]

For me Option A is the equivalent of watching some really long R-rated movies, in fact 50 Shades was an R-movie. 
Option B is hard for me. Was she a member of the church and then slept with 10 guys? Was she a non-member, found and understood the gospel, fully repented and was baptized. For me these are two different people and I "might" answer it differently if I knew her church status at the time. 

Part of the jealous side of me would have a very hard time not feeling compared to the other 10 "lovers" from time to time. My head is swirling at the "what if" and "how about" scenarios right now. But this is my quick reaction. Option A definitely over Option B.   

[estradling75]

Option A...   You can fight a fantasy and wrong-minded thought easier then you can change the past...  But that does not mean it would not be a rough ride... That being said marriage is too important to leave to a mere sound bite of information...  Prayer and faith would have to inform the choice either way

 

[SpiritDragon]

29 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

For me Option A is the equivalent of watching some really long R-rated movies, in fact 50 Shades was an R-movie. 
Option B is hard for me. Was she a member of the church and then slept with 10 guys? Was she a non-member, found and understood the gospel, fully repented and was baptized. For me these are two different people and I "might" answer it differently if I knew her church status at the time. 

Part of the jealous side of me would have a very hard time not feeling compared to the other 10 "lovers" from time to time. My head is swirling at the "what if" and "how about" scenarios right now. But this is my quick reaction. Option A definitely over Option B.   

Does your perspective change if A) is LDS the whole time and B) is a convert who hasn't had chastity issues since her baptism?

[tesuji]

I'm not thrilled about the trashy novels, but that's nowhere near as bad as actually doing the sins, 10 times even

[Guest MormonGator]

I accept that people are human and sinful beings. If I held it above her head and didn't marry her just because of any mistake she made, I am in some ways worse than her sinful behavior. I'm just as sinful as "she" is (the girl in this situation, even though I don't struggle with sexual sin/porn addiction, whatever) so it would be totally irrelevant. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Why would anyone be forced to choose only between these two options?

[LeSellers]

7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I accept that people are human and sinful beings. If I held it above her head and didn't marry her just because of any mistake she made, I am in some ways worse than her sinful behavior. I'm just as sinful as "she" is (the girl in this situation, even though I don't struggle with sexual sin/porn addiction, whatever) so it would be totally irrelevant. 

There's a difference between not "forgiving" her/him and using logic and common sense in choosing an eternal partner. It is, as I said earlier, literally for the children.

Lhei

[SpiritDragon]

9 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Why would anyone be forced to choose only between these two options?

Chances are very good you wouldn't.... stranded on a desert island with only these two choices. It's simply a hypothetical to contrast the two. As Gator mentioned we're all sinners - and Lehi is also correct that these decisions have implications on generations. I'm just curious to see how men think about this. It is very obviously a play on the other thread for the ladies where I've been shocked to discover that the ladies at my last reading unanimously were in favour of the former fornicator and/or adulterer over the porn addict who's been clean presumably for over a year. I just found it shocking and wanted to see how the men would respond. Now clearly it's debatable whether it's a fair comparison to use trashy novels in place of trashy magazines or videos - but it seems to be the way women prefer to indulge in my experience so I chose a problem that is likely as endemic among the ladies as the porn among the men.

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

Chances are very good you wouldn't.... stranded on a desert island with only these two choices. It's simply a hypothetical to contrast the two. As Gator mentioned we're all sinners - and Lehi is also correct that these decisions have implications on generations. I'm just curious to see how men think about this. It is very obviously a play on the other thread for the ladies where I've been shocked to discover that the ladies at my last reading unanimously were in favour of the former fornicator and/or adulterer over the porn addict who's been clean presumably for over a year. I just found it shocking and wanted to see how the men would respond. Now clearly it's debatable whether it's a fair comparison to use trashy novels in place of trashy magazines or videos - but it seems to be the way women prefer to indulge in my experience so I chose a problem that is likely as endemic among the ladies as the porn among the men.

it's a great question bro, for sure. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. This is a fun little forum, not a hardcore scientific research establishment where every question and thread has grave outcomes for all involved. Most won't even remember it in two weeks. 

Personally I've never understood why a guy looking at porn is mortally sinful and a girl reading 50 Shades isn't. Both are wrong. 


 

[LeSellers]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I've never understood why a guy looking at porn is mortally sinful and a girl reading 50 Shades isn't. Both are wrong.

Indeed.

They're both destructive of the morality of the viewer, and will have effects on all around him.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

Dup

Lehi

Edited July 18, 2016 by LeSellers

[Guest]

 Can you realistically lose your temple recommend over romance novels?  Just curious if this actually happens in reality or not.

Given the choice, I would take the romance novels over the sleeping around.  In fact, if my wife came to me and told me she had a problem with romance novels, I would honestly  have a hard time taking it as seriously as I apparently should... Maybe, having never read a romance novel, I am unaware of how bad they are.  l just can't imagine a book being so explicit to be on the level of traditional pornography...  Please feel free to enlighten me.

Edited July 18, 2016 by DoctorLemon

[classylady]

There are lots of innocent romance novels without any sex in them at all--just a romance story.

[SpiritDragon]

@DoctorLemon perhaps this other forums take on it will be of interest to you - non LDS perspective of course:

http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/porn-vs-romance-novels/

it appears based on this sample that there is plenty of agreement on the idea that romance novels are indeed similar to porn but at a level more appealing to women. Men being more visual would like to see a beautiful woman. Ladies apparently like to fantasize about men emotionally. I've never dug into any hard science on the matter.

[Guest]

By the way, by no means do I wish to minimize the seriousness of romance novels (which my last post admittedly does).  If they are spiritually devastating and are breaking up marriages, by all means they should be avoided like the plague.  I just don't know much about them, and have a difficult time judging how much of a threat they pose.  

Edited July 18, 2016 by DoctorLemon

[SpiritDragon]

34 minutes ago, classylady said:

There are lots of innocent romance novels without any sex in them at all--just a romance story.

Even without the sex - I wonder if just the fantasizing about romance isn't somewhat harmful in some ways. Supposing a woman is reading about a man who has all of these different empathetic qualities and knows just what to say and so on and so forth that she wishes her significant other had more of and so on - is it not a little bit of emotional fantasy straying into territory one should guard against, sort of emotional lusting or cheating (would you look at it differently if there was a romance going on over social media with no actual sex). Could these soft-core romance novels not be a gateway to harder stuff. It seems to me like saying looking at the sports illustrated swim suit edition or a lingerie catalogue isn't pornographic because no one is naked or having sex... and maybe it isn't pornographic by definition, but it's certainly territory one should be wary of.

[SpiritDragon]

I thought this was interesting from lds.org

Pornography:

Pornography is any depiction, in pictures or writing, that is intended to inappropriately arouse sexual feelings. Pornography is more prevalent in today’s world than ever before. It may be found in written material (including romance novels), photographs, movies, electronic images, video games, social media posts, phone apps, erotic telephone conversations, music, or any other medium.

I feel that the men may be unfairly typecast as the primary ones who struggle with this affliction - I've never heard the romance novel position over the pulpit at conference but it is by this definition indeed pornography.

[Backroads]

To add a note on the romance novels... my husband's first wife apparently didn'the have interest in sex... except when she was reading Twilight. Take that for whatever you will.

[SpiritDragon]

@DoctorLemon Further to the link I provided above, I decided I would dig a little and I found this:

http://acculturated.com/why-romance-novels-turn-women-on/

This excerpt in particular seemed fitting in the conversation -

Psychologist Dr. Julia Slattery, author of Finding the Hero in Your Husband, says there are similarities between what happens to a woman when she reads a romance novel and what happens to a man when he views pornography.

“There is a neurochemical element with men and visual porn, but an emotional element with women and these novels,” she writes.

Women experience a euphoric high when reading romance novels and men experience the same addicting chemical release when watching porn.  It’s no wonder that women account for over 91 percent of the genre’s readership, or that Dr. Slattery is seeing more and more women addicted to these books.  These books, she notes, do not have to be sexually explicit to work.

[SpiritDragon]

9 minutes ago, Backroads said:

To add a note on the romance novels... my husband's first wife apparently didn'the have interest in sex... except when she was reading Twilight. Take that for whatever you will.

I felt funny leaving this as something I "like" as in I don't have any particular liking for someone getting excited by reading twilight - but I wanted to express appreciation for the post because I feel it has genuine merit as an anecdote to the discussion at hand.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I think we need to be more clear what we are talking about here. 

The term "romance novels" is a really broad topic.  I mean the movie "You've Got Mail" Is romance that is completely innocent and fun.  I know it's a movie, not a book, but it's more likely to be something everyone here is familiar with than any book I can think of.  So on one end of the spectrum we have books like "You've Got Mail", I would put Twilight closer to the middle, and then far on the other side I would put 50 Shades of Gray.  Note, I haven't read 50 Shades of Gray, but based on what i've read about it,  I never will.  I have seen You've Got Mail and read the Twilight series.  Basically there's :

romance without even a hint of sex....You've Got Mail

romance with hints of sex....Twilight 

romance that is simply a frame for talking about sex and describing it in detail....50 Shades

That's a pretty wide spectrum, especially when 50 Shades of Gray includes BDSM....that can hardly be compared to You've Got Mail.

To me porn is porn and while it also has a wide spectrum, from bad to really, really evil....none of it is innocent.  But not everything is port.  If a guy goes to the swimming pool, and sees girls in their bathing suits, that's innocent and not porn, even if he enjoys seeing women in their bathing suits (that's natural) still innocent in my mind.  I judge Sports Illustrated as a bit inappropriate because it's intent is clearly to tintilate, but still I don't think of it as porn.  In my definition porn is actual nudity.  Then on the far end of the porn spectrum I put things I can't even talk about here . . . (including but not limited to BDSM).  

 

Edited to add: I don't read romance novels, generally, because I'm not interested in "fluff".  I prefer classics, historical fiction, non-fiction...just clarifying that I'm not trying to excuse my personal romance reading.  

Edited July 18, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[Sunday21]

6 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I think we need to be more clear what we are talking about here. 

The term "romance novels" is a really broad topic.  I mean the movie "You've Got Mail" Is romance that is completely innocent and fun.  I know it's a movie, not a book, but it's more likely to be something everyone here is familiar with than any book I can think of.  So on one end of the spectrum we have books like "You've Got Mail", I would put Twilight closer to the middle, and then far on the other side I would put 50 Shades of Gray.  Note, I haven't read 50 Shades of Gray, but based on what i've read about it,  I never will.  I have seen You've Got Mail and read the Twilight series.  Basically there's :

romance without even a hint of sex....You've Got Mail

romance with hints of sex....Twilight 

romance that is simply a frame for talking about sex and describing it in detail....50 Shades

That's a pretty wide spectrum, especially when 50 Shades of Gray includes BDSM....that can hardly be compared to You've Got Mail.

To me porn is porn and while it also has a wide spectrum, from bad to really, really evil....none of it is innocent.  But not everything is port.  If a guy goes to the swimming pool, and sees girls in their bathing suits, that's innocent and not porn, even if he enjoys seeing women in their bathing suits (that's natural) still innocent in my mind.  I judge Sports Illustrated as a bit inappropriate because it's intent is clearly to tintilate, but still I don't think of it as porn.  In my definition porn is actual nudity.  Then on the far end of the porn spectrum I put things I can't even talk about here . . . (including but not limited to BDSM).  

 

Edited to add: I don't read romance novels, generally, because I'm not interested in "fluff".  I prefer classics, historical fiction, non-fiction...just clarifying that I'm not trying to excuse my personal romance reading.  

Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, All of Jane Austen, Gone with the Wind, ...

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

14 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, All of Jane Austen, Gone with the Wind, ...

Good point!!!  I love Jane Eyre....she has a tremendous strength of character that I would hope for for my own daughter (and myself).

Withering Heights I could never quite understand...strange story.  

Jane Austen...bleh.  Don't throw tomatoes!  She's just not my cup of tea.  I'd rather read Moby Dick, and that was a difficult book to get through. 

Gone With the Wind...I love the movie, but I couldn't get through the book, I tried.  

But all of these I would consider quite innocent...G-rated if they were movies, and many of them are. 

Edited July 18, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[Sunday21]

20 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Good point!!!  I love Jane Eyre....she has a tremendous strength of character that I would hope for for my own daughter (and myself).

Withering Heights I could never quite understand...strange story.  

Jane Austen...bleh.  Don't throw tomatoes!  She's just not my cup of tea.  I'd rather read Moby Dick, and that was a difficult book to get through. 

Gone With the Wind...I love the movie, but I couldn't get through the book, I tried.  

But all of these I would consider quite innocent...G-rated if they were movies, and many of them are. 

withering height well written but wow, that story is so weird! Loved Moby Dick especially the intro. Not the chapter on white! Still a lot of novels are romance novels and very g rated.