Was The True Gospel Restored By Joseph Smith (acts 3: 19-21)

[darrel]

What evidences do we have and what discoveries have been made to show that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and that the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has the full gospel upon the earth today as taught by Jesus Christ?

[Jason]

.....(crickets chirping)......

[darrel]

Let me suggest a fiew.

discoveries at Cumron, Nag Hammadi, Cave of the 1000 Buddahs, Russia,Finland, South America, North America,

[Dr T]

Please flesh those out Das

[Jason]

Let me suggest a fiew.

discoveries at Cumron, Nag Hammadi, Cave of the 1000 Buddahs, Russia,Finland, South America, North America,

Let me add: Mt. St Helen's, the Continental Divide, YouTube and silk neck ties to that list.

[darrel]

Jason your post does not justify a response because you still obviously are not seriously considering anything I am posting. Cumron discoveries include the thousands of scrolls known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Much of which has been translated.

[Dr T]

You are obviously searching for "qumran." Again, flesh out this idea. How do you consider the finding of those scrolls a testimony that Joseph Smith was a "true prophet" as you said?

[Jason]

Jason your post does not justify a response because you still obviously are not seriously considering anything I am posting. Cumron discoveries include the thousands of scrolls known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Much of which has been translated.

Actually I answered your post tit for tat. I suggest you actually bring some text forward and show us some parallel to what you're claiming, otherwise it's ridiculous to make this claim.

[hightower]

I would say the prophecies of the Prophet Joseph Smith:

"Finally, what of Joseph Smith’s prophecies? There were more than a few, and they were fulfilled. Among the most notable was the revelation on the Civil War. You are familiar with it; it was spoken on Christmas Day, 1832. There were many high-minded men and women who deplored the institution of slavery then common in the South, and there was much talk of abolition. But who but a prophet of God would have dared to say, thirty-nine years before it was to happen, that “war [would] be poured out upon all nations,” beginning “at the rebellion of South Carolina,” and that “the Southern States [would] be divided against the Northern States”? (D&C 87:1–3.) This remarkable prediction saw its fulfillment with the firing on Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor in 1861. How could Joseph Smith have possibly foreseen with such accuracy the event that was to come thirty-nine years after he spoke of it? Only by the spirit of prophecy which was in him.

Or again, consider the equally remarkable prophecy concerning the movement of the Saints to these mountain valleys. The Saints were then living in Nauvoo and its sister community across the Mississippi and were enjoying a prosperity they had not previously known. They were building a temple and other substantial structures. Their new homes were of brick, constructed to endure. And yet one day in August of 1842, while visiting in Montrose, Joseph prophesied “that the Saints would continue to suffer much affliction and would be driven to the Rocky Mountains, many would apostatize, others would be put to death by our persecutors or lose their lives in consequence of exposure or disease, and [speaking to those who were present] some of you will live to go and assist in making settlements and build cities and see the Saints become a mighty people in the midst of the Rocky Mountains.” (History of the Church, 5:85.)

Viewed in the context of the time and circumstances, this statement is nothing less than remarkable. Only a man speaking with a knowledge beyond his own could have uttered words which would be so literally fulfilled.

And what of this prophecy, which so magnificently foresaw the joyous destiny of this church?

“Our missionaries are going forth to different nations … the Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.” (History of the Church, 4:540.)"

(Gordon B. Hinckley, “‘Praise to the Man’,” Ensign, Aug 1983, 2)

Although the truthfulness of this gospel has been confirmed to me through the Spirit many times, God has given other means which confirm the truthfulness of His work. One of these is prophecy. This church will continue to spread throughout the entire earth. I think one obvious testimony to the truthfulness of this gospel is the great opposition by many people in the world. If it was not true why would there be so much opposition? And as further evidence, this opposition will continue to increase until the Savior comes again...you watch and see. There are so many marvleous prophecies that will be fulfilled in the near future which will only add to my testimony of the truthfulness of Christ's restored church.

[darrel]

spelling is not my forte lol. qumron discoveries confirm doctrine was taught prior during and after christ which is contrary to contemporary christian teachings. Joseph Smith restored that which was taught before without having the discoveries. The discoveries confirm Joseph Smith received his knowledge by Revelation from God as a true prophet would.

[Jason]

spelling is not my forte lol. qumron discoveries confirm doctrine was taught prior during and after christ which is contrary to contemporary christian teachings. Joseph Smith restored that which was taught before without having the discoveries. The discoveries confirm Joseph Smith received his knowledge by Revelation from God as a true prophet would.

I'm a bit fuzzy on Qumran. Which scroll talks about the temple ceremonies as currently used, the garments with ninety degree angles, two white bearded gods creating the world with the archangel Michael, etc, etc.

[Aphrodite]

Which scroll talks about the temple ceremonies as currently used, the garments with ninety degree angles, two white bearded gods creating the world with the archangel Michael, etc, etc.

I'd like to know that too Jason.

[CrimsonKairos]

Jason, go easy now. I know you're probably tempted to have some fun with das, but try to restrain the urge to pounce on all of his posts. Clarifying questions are good, though. B)

As for the scrolls and temple ceremonies...I'm afraid I have that scroll in my private possession and I'm not inclined to let you see it.

[Josie]

It is gone. Don't worry about it.

Besides, it was not posted hoping anyone would read it or anything else. Several were asking for information. The information was there if anyone wanted it. But now it is gone. So, no one has to be concerned about it any longer.

[Jason]

Josie,

I think there is a growing consensus on Message Boards that linking an entire website is a no-no. Cut and paste a few things you think are relevent if you wish, but don't just post a link hoping the rest of us will spend a few hours or even days reading it over.

Thanks.

[Guest sad]

I need to apologize to this forum for any negative comments and dispersions. I do not wish to be confrontational at all and wish only to be a participant and not an agitator. I guess my limited typing and communication abilities show that I am less proficient in carrying out a discussion on the high level that seems to be prevalent on this forum. I will continue to follow this forum with interest and try to glean the proper etiquette and skill to not be offensive to other more "educated" posters.

[prisonchaplain]

spelling is not my forte lol. qumron discoveries confirm doctrine was taught prior during and after christ which is contrary to contemporary christian teachings. Joseph Smith restored that which was taught before without having the discoveries. The discoveries confirm Joseph Smith received his knowledge by Revelation from God as a true prophet would.

Are you saying that they have found copies of biblical texts that have these teachings in them, or that some of the extrabiblical texts have them (Gospel of Judas, etc.?)

I need to apologize to this forum for any negative comments and dispersions. I do not wish to be confrontational at all and wish only to be a participant and not an agitator. I guess my limited typing and communication abilities show that I am less proficient in carrying out a discussion on the high level that seems to be prevalent on this forum. I will continue to follow this forum with interest and try to glean the proper etiquette and skill to not be offensive to other more "educated" posters.

Is this Das?

[Dr T]

Maybe but sad came off much better in that post.

[Snow]

Let me suggest a fiew.

discoveries at Cumron, Nag Hammadi, Cave of the 1000 Buddahs, Russia,Finland, South America, North America,

Cumron?

I think you meant Cumin, a seed/spice in use since ancient times, excavated at the Syrian site, Tell de-Der, dating to the 2nd millennium BC... proof positive that the Gospel was restored through Joseph Smith. Interestingly, this is probably the strongest proof on your list.

Look for my upcoming book... "Cilantro - Proving the Resurrection."

[CrimsonKairos]

Who put a quarter in you this week, Snow?

[Snow]

Cumron discoveries include the thousands of scrolls known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Much of which has been translated.

das,

Which scroll do you think provides the most proof of restoration of the true gospel?

What is on that particular scroll that you find most compelling?

[Traveler]

Jason: I believe you are mistaken on several points. For example, what points of temple worship are given in LDS scripture that are not in any of the ancient finds referred to by Das. Please note the scripture by chapter and verse.

Some references form the Dead Sea Scrolls that correspond to LDS revelations. The Book of Enoch as compared to the Pearl of Great Price - Specifically the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses.

References to the Priesthood of Melchizedek - The Doctrine and Covenants and the DSS Testaments of the Patriarchs.

The Traveler

[Doctor Steuss]

The Book of Enoch as compared to the Pearl of Great Price - Specifically the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses.

I keep a copy of the Book of Enoch in my bathroom (I know... crazy bathroom reading material, but I just can't get enough of the darn thing). I hope one day that it is canonized and gains the place in the LDS Church that it once had with Christ and his apostles.

Another "discovery" or "evidence" that I really dig can be found in 1 Nephi 16: 34

[Jason]

Traveler,

I'm not following you. Are you providing me evidence, or asking me to look for it?

Jason: I believe you are mistaken on several points. For example, what points of temple worship are given in LDS scripture that are not in any of the ancient finds referred to by Das. Please note the scripture by chapter and verse.

Some references form the Dead Sea Scrolls that correspond to LDS revelations. The Book of Enoch as compared to the Pearl of Great Price - Specifically the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses.

References to the Priesthood of Melchizedek - The Doctrine and Covenants and the DSS Testaments of the Patriarchs.

The Traveler

[Doctor Steuss]

I keep a copy of the Book of Enoch in my bathroom (I know... crazy bathroom reading material, but I just can't get enough of the darn thing). I hope one day that it is canonized and gains the place in the LDS Church that it once had with Christ and his apostles.

Another "discovery" or "evidence" that I really dig can be found in 1 Nephi 16: 34

Yes, I'm quoting myself... and responding to myself...

Book of Enoch fun (and/or Enochic literature) -- With a very large bow to my good friend Consiglieri from "another board" (he is also head of the SSCE, a clandestine organization for which I am the acting Mohel).:

In the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, we have a quote purportedly from the "Book of Enoch."

For the house which the Lord shall choose shall be called Jerusalem, as the book of Enoch the Righteous maintains. (Testament of Levi 10:5)

This is from The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, edited by James H. Charlesworth, p. 792. According to the footnote, there is "No known parallel in Enochic literature."

But, if we look to one of those heretical books "created" by Joseph Smith, we find:

For there shall be my tabernacle; and it shall be called Zion, a new Jerusalem. (Moses 7:62b)

Looks like there just might be a "known parallel in Enochic literature."

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Enoch sees Noah protected by the hand of God

Moses 7:43--Enoch saw that Noah built an ark; and that the Lord smiled upon it, and held it in his own hand; but upon the residue of the wicked the floods came.

1 Enoch 67:2--At this time the angels are working with wood (making an ark) and when it is completed, I shall place my hands upon it and protect it.

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Enoch Sees All Things

Moses 7:67a--And the Lord showed Enoch all things, even unto the end of the world.

2 Enoch 40:1--Now therefore, my children, I know everything; . . . my eyes have seen from the beginning even to the end, and from the end to the recommencement.

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Enoch Sees Men's Deeds

Moses 7:41--The Lord spake unto Enoch, and told Enoch all the doings of the children of men, wherefore Enoch knew.

2 Enoch 53:2--See how I have written down all the deeds of every person before the creation, and I am writing down what is done among all persons forever.

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Enoch Sees All Generations

Moses 7:4--(the Lord said to Enoch): Look, and I will show unto thee the world for the space of many generations.

3 Enoch 45--And I saw Adam and his generation, their deeds and their thoughts (etc.) . . . And every deed of every generation, whether done or to be done in the time to come, to all generations, till the end of time.

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Premortal Existence

Moses 6:51--And he called upon our father Adam by his own voice, saying: I am God; I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh.

2 Enoch 23:4-5--You (Enoch) sit down and write--all the souls of men, whatever of them are not yet born, . . . For all the souls are prepared for eternity, before the composition of the earth.

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The Earth Speaks

Moses 7:48a--Enoch looked upon the earth; and he heard a voice from the bowels thereof, saying: Wo, wo is me, the mother of men; I am pained, I am weary, because of the wickedness of my children.

1 Enoch 7:6--(After a description of the wickedness on the earth) And then the earth brought an accusation against the oppressors.

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Enoch Weeps

Moses 7:44--And as Enoch saw this, he had bitterness of soul, and wept over his brethren, and said unto the heavens: I will refuse to be comforted.

2 Enoch 41:1--And I (Enoch) sighed and burst into tears, and I said concerning their disreputable depravity, Oh how miserable . . ..

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Mahijuah/Mahujah

Moses 6:39-40--[W]hen they heard him (Enoch) . . . fear came on all them that heard him. And there came a man unto him (Enoch), whose name was Mahijah, and said to him: Tell us plainly who thou art and from whence thou comest?

Dead Sea Scrolls 4QEnGiants 1:20--[Thereupon] all the giants [and the nephilim] took fright and they summoned Mahujah and he came to them: And the giants asked him and sent him to Enoch [...] saying to him: Go then [...] and under pain of death you must [...] and listen to his voice; and tell him that he is to explain to you and to interpret the dreams.

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Enoch a Lad at 65

Moses 6:31--Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight, and am but a lad?

2 Enoch 10:4--And the men answered me (Enoch), This place, youth, has been prepared for those who practice godless uncleanness on the earth.

3 Enoch 3:2--[Enoch] answered, I have seventy names; . . . however, my King calls me Youth.

3 Enoch 4:2--Why, then, do they call you Youth in the heavenly heights? He answered, Because I am Enoch, the son of Jared.

3 Enoch 4:10--Because I am young in their company (the holy angels) and a mere youth among them in days and months and years--therefore they call me Youth.

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Now, these might not seem like much. One might be inclined to say: "Joseph just stole this stuff from these other texts." But, keep in mind that many of these texts (with perhaps the exception of 3 Enoch) were not available to Joseph. Also, anyone familiar with Biblical scholarship and what warrants a noteworthy "parallel" might be less likely to dismiss these as insignificant.

Are they proof? Hardly.

Are they evidence? Perhaps. Enough to at least give one pause, IMO.

Ok, just a few more:

Enoch Given Right to God's Throne

Moses 7:59--[Enoch to God] Thou hast made me, and given unto me a right to thy throne.

3 Enoch 10:1-3--[Enoch speaking] The Holy One made for me a throne like the throne of glory . . . He placed it at the door of the seventh palace and sat me down upon it.

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The Lord's House Shall Be Called Jerusalem

Testament of Levi 10:4 (quoting from an otherwise unknown Enoch source)--For the house which the Lord shall choose shall be called Jerusalem, as the Book of Enoch the Righteous maintains.

Moses 7:62b--For there shall be my tabernacle and it shall be called Zion, a new Jerusalem.

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God Gives Adam Free Will

Moses 6:56--And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves.

Moses 7:32b--In the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency.

2 Enoch 30:15--And I . . . called his name Adam. And I gave him his free will; and I pointed out to him the two ways--light and darkness. And I said unto him, This is good for you, but that is bad.

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Enoch In Possession of Adam's Book

Moses 6:5, 8--Enoch quotes extensively from Book of Adam (Moses 6:51-68) that was kept by Adam and his posterity.

2 Enoch 33:11-12--[God to Enoch]--For I will give you an intercessor, Enoch; Michael, on account of your handwritings and the handwritings of your fathers--Adam and Seth. They will not be destroyed until the final age. For I have commanded my angels to guard them and to command the things of time to preserve the handwritings of your fathers so that they might not perish in the impending flood.

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Restoration of Book of Enoch Predicted in Enochic Literature

2 Enoch 35:1-3--And I will leave a righteous man (Noah), a member of your tribe, together with all his house, who will act in accordance with my will. And from their seed will arise a generation, the last of many, and very rapacious. And I shall raise up for that generation someone who will reveal to them the books in your handwriting and those of your fathers, by means of which the guardians of the earth will show themselves to the faithful men. And they will be recounted to that generation, and they will be glorified in the end more than at the first.

Moses 1:41--(God to Moses) And in a day when the children of men shall esteem my words as naught and take many of them from the book which thou shalt write, behold, I will raise up another like unto thee; and they shall be had again among the children of men--among as many as shall believe.

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Enoch Clothed with Glory

Moses 7:3--As I stood upon the mount, I behld the heavens open, and I was clothed upon with glory.

2 Enoch 22:8-10--The LORD said to Micahel, Take Enoch, and extract (him) from the earthly clothing. And anoint him with the delightful oil, and put (him) into the clothes of glory. . . . And I gazed at myself, and I had become like one of the glorious ones, and there was no observable difference.

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Enoch Sees the Saints Arise

Moses 7:56--And I heard a loud voice; . . . and the saints arose, and were crowned at the right hand of the Son of Man, with crowns of glory.

3 Enoch 44:7--I saw the souls of the fathers of the world, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the rest of the righteous, who had been raised from their graves and had ascended to heaven.

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Enoch Sees the Return of Zion From Heaven

Moses 7:63--Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other.

1 Enoch 39:1--And it shall come to pass in those days that the elect and holy children will descend from the high heavens, and their seed will become one with the children of men.

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A Prison Prepared for the Wicked

Moses 7:57--And as many of the spirits as were in prison came forth, and stood on the right hand of God; and the remaineder were reserved in chains of darkness until the judgment of the great day.

1 Enoch 10:13-14--In those days they will lead them into the bottom of the fire--and in torment--in the prison where they will be locked up forever. And at the time..., those who collaborated with them will be bound together with them from henceforth unto the end of (all) generations.

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Chains of Satan

Moses 7:26--And he beheld Satan, and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness.

1 Enoch 53:3-4--So I saw all the angels of plague cooperating and preparing all the chains of Satan. And I asked the angel of peace, who was going with me, For whom are they preparing these chains?

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Enoch Acts as Intercessor for Mankind

Moses 7:49-50--Enoch . . . cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, . . . Wilt thou not bless the children of Noah? . . . I ask thee . . . that thou wilt have mercy upon Noah and his seed.

2 Enoch 18:7--And that is why God has judged them with a great judgment; and they mourn their brothers, and they will be outraged on the great day of the LORD. And I said . . ., I have seen your brothers and their deeds and their torments . . . and I have prayed for them.

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Joseph created a book with claimed to be a restored Book of Enoch. How does it measure up when compared with the Enochic literature that was discovered after Joseph's restoration of the book?

Quite nicely.