Is it reasonable for my husband to ask me not to do this? Is it reasonable for me to do it anyway?

[MrShorty]

I certainly don't object to you wanted to sell plasma, and your husband is entitled to his opinions and desires as well. I will agree with those who say that it is not worth going against your husband's wishes in this (If interested in exploring this further, you might review Dr. Harley's "Policy of Joint Agreement" http://marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi3500_policy.html).

That said, this description of your husband's attitude stands out to me.

4 hours ago, ldsister said:

b) at his age, if his wife is needing to sell plasma, he's a total failure as a human being. 

I think if I was in a position to talk honestly and bluntly with your husband, I would explore where this idea comes from and how it applies. "Do you really believe that if your wife gives plasma a few times a week to supplement your income, it completely invalidates everything you have done over the years to provide for your family?" I know that we as LDS strongly value single income households and fathers as primary providers for their families, but I don't think a wife pulling in a little extra on her own where she is able means that the husband is a "total failure as a human being." I think if I had the chance, I would try to explore this idea and see if I could moderate it some.

Edited September 20, 2016 by MrShorty
delete trailing carriage returns

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

30 minutes ago, ldsister said:

Mmmm . . . that's part of what I'm feeling. *I* would never tell him not to do something like that. I'd let it be his choice. If he wanted to sell plasma to buy a video game or a concert ticket, I'd say, "Well, you pass out when you get blood drawn, but you're a competent adult, so I trust you're going to do your research and manage your business." 

Is the lack of the reverse mutual respect? 

No, you're not making a fair comparison here.  It's apples and oranges.  Suppose he wanted to do something that you thought was bad for his health.  Say he's diabetic and he wants you to make him a triple layer chocolate fudge cake with ice cream on the side.  If you won't do it, he'll just go gorge himself at Dairy Queen.  It's just high blood sugar, it'll be okay.  His body, his choice, right?  

[jerome1232]

4 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Blood plasma, don't do it. the sacrifice to your husband and kids will be to great.  Your not single and can just hang out to recuperate you are a busy wife and mom. Start a business on ebay, you never have to leave the house.

Having donated plasma before, I'm utterly confused by this statement. You go in for like an hour, you donate, you collect your compensation, you come home. 2 hours tops.

I've never had to "recuperate". Drink some water, you are fine. Plasma is different from donating whole blood, it's used in research and can help save someone's life. Plus you get compensated for it to boot!

[NightSG]

42 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Suppose he wanted to do something that you thought was bad for his health.

This isn't selling eggs on the black market in the back room at the tattoo parlor.

[yjacket]

5 hours ago, ldsister said:

I am SO SICK of being broke, and there's always some emergency. Kid's appendix bursts, deer smashes into the car, some part on the car goes out, phone slams into the sidewalk while teaching Webelos, other kid turns out to have congenital orthodontia condition requiring 30K to replace missing teeth, etc. We're not going into debt, but we're also not able to afford to even take the family to the corn maze or the museum, either. 

ldssister . . .Welcome to life!  There is a great lyrical song that goes something like this:

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you might find
You get what you need

It appears to me that there is a greater problem here than just simply wanting extra money.  It is called covetousness and it afflicts all of mankind. We see what others have and we want what they have. We see others taking their kids to the Museum of going on lavish vacations and we want it too. I wouldn't be talking about this, but you previously posted about your desire to not pay tithing.  That topic and this topic lead me to believe that there is a bigger problem here. 

It really does stink sometimes in life-we see others with the fancy car, the fancy house, the vacations and think, I should have that too-or even I should have just a small part of that. Or I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE BROKE.  Yet that has been the majority of the human condition!!! Not much more than subsistence living. And more likely than not, the people we see who have those things are probably drowning in bills, debt, etc. Part of this mortal condition is learning to be satisfied with what the Lord gives us; we are always striving to improve our life and have better, nicer things but at the end of the day what we have doesn't matter so much as who we are.

I can absolutely 100% guarantee that your kids will be just fine if they don't have piano lessons, if they don't do martial arts and whatever other thing is out there. In fact, the lessons you are teaching them by forgoing these wants and living frugally will 100% be a more important teaching you can impart to them.

I have learned in life that there are almost always a way to cut back and save even more, even if it is only 2 dollars a month, if it is through tightening the belt, not eating as much, couponing, etc. there is some way to always save more money. Take cell phones for example, no one needs a cell phone.  I've always considered if I have a roof over my head, food in my stomach and clothes on my back it is a good day.  There are too many people in this world who don't even have that. For a while I did the magic jack thing, cheap and I didn't pay for a cell phone bill-save an extra $30+/month for an inconvenience.

As a suggestion, I would not do the FSA (if that is what you have), very bad idea-horrible financially very little benefits, hardly any roll-over and you lose money if you don't use it. I would suggest getting an HSA plan. The money rolls-over every year no penalties, generally once you have a certain amount you can start investing the money like a 401k plan and it's a top-line tax deduction. To take full advantage you have to have a High-deductible plan (which generally are pretty good-but are worse now due to ObamaCare- THANKS OBAMA!!!!), but they are much cheaper than full-insurance. You can pare the high-deductible plan with an accident rider on the side market that will pick up insurance costs due to any type of accident and I've found some that cover up to the deductible amount. It's not perfect, but I've found it's the cheapest way to go (and I've had a lot of health bills in my life).

Anywho . . .learning to be satisfied with what we have while still fighting to have more is a big challenge.

I remember a quote that goes something like this (written by a woman), stay under your husband's counsel so that he is standing tall enough that if he messes up God can whack him (or STTE).

 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by yjacket

[Latter-Day Marriage]

6 hours ago, ldsister said:

My husband objects because he feels that a) it will make me even more exhausted and drained than I already am and b) at his age, if his wife is needing to sell plasma, he's a total failure as a human being.

His second concern is just pride, but your health and well being are a VERY valid concern.  You might not care about being more drained, but you should.  With you even more drained you put an even bigger burden on your husband to make up the slack, or have the family suffer from nobody being able to pick up the slack.  Selling plasma may do more harm than good.

Look for other ways of increasing your income.  Call centers and other places often allow people to work from home.  My wife for a time cleaned houses during the hours all our kids were in school.  If your new area is affluent, there is probably a demand for this since all the working mothers need some help, or for home day care.  Another time she had a large garden and sold vegetables and home baked bread a local farmer's market.  I'd say avoid any kind of sales/multi-level marketing thing.  You have to make a time and a financial investment up front and if you are not a great sales person you won't do well (and if they tell you otherwise don't believe them).

Make sure you keep paying tithing and trust the lord to open a way for you as you keep looking.  As long as you have shelter, food, clothing and medical needs covered you should not make yourself anxious, and there is nothing shameful about going to the Bishop when needed, even now just for counsel.  That can be a really hard one for guys but sometimes God has to humble us. 

This may sound sexist, but there is no social stigma for a woman to be financially supported by others all her life (father, husband, etc), but for a guy to have to ask for financial help even for a short time is a HUGE blow to his self esteem so try to be sensitive about that.

This quote doesn't really fit your situation, but I came to my mind as I read your post so I'll share:

"A man out of work is of special moment to the Church because, deprived of his inheritance, he is on trial as Job was on trial -- for his integrity.  As days lengthen into weeks and months and even years of adversity, the hurt grows deeper; and he is sorely tempted to curse God and die.  Continued economic dependence breaks him.  It humiliates him if he is strong; spoils him if he is weak.  Sensitive or calloused, despondent or indifferent, rebellious or resigned -- either way he is threatened with spiritual ruin.  For the dole is an evil and idleness a curse. He soon becomes a seedbed of discontent, wrong thinking and alien beliefs.  The Church cannot hope to save a man on Sunday if during the week it is a complacent witness to the crucifixion of his soul."   - Elder Gordon B. Hinckley - From Helping Others to Help Themselves: The Story of the Mormon Church Welfare Program, Historical Department Archives, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (1945)

 

[Latter-Day Marriage]

6 hours ago, ldsister said:

I have enough energy to sit still and let someone stick a needle in my vein. I do NOT have enough energy to run a babysitting business. (And since I'm a stickler for licensing and taxes, it would probably cost more than I'd make anyway.)

And after they've taken some plasma you will be in even worse shape for some time.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

6 hours ago, ldsister said:

I strongly feel that church welfare is for people who need it to eat, not people who want to use their food money on music lessons. For me personally, this is not something I would feel comfortable doing.

That is right, but it doesn't kill a kid to do without music lessons.  There may be community music programs that will fill your need, or perhaps you could learn yourself on the internet and teach your kids, or have your kids learn online.  Most middle and high schools have band.  The church has a lot of low cost materials for learning to play piano, including a very inexpensive keyboard.  There is concern that not enough people are learning piano to supply the church's need down the road.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

6 hours ago, ldsister said:

We don't really need a financial planner. We just don't have a large enough income to supply my (I feel appropriate and worthy) desires. I'm like, "let's just go get more money! Blood money!" lol.

Sometimes the best thing is to do without the good thing.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

6 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Who suggested using the grocery savings for "music lessons"?

I was referring to: "Kid's appendix bursts, deer smashes into the car, some part on the car goes out"

Many, many members view the Bishop's Storehouse erroneously, similar to Govt Welfare. The Bishop's Storehouse is to help provide assistance. The means by which the Church first attempts to do this is by providing food assistance. By providing "food", it is expected that the recipient will then use their actual money/cash towards the other necessities of life. 

One of the biggest problems I've seen related to the Bishop's Storehouse is that members wait too long to use it. Rather than put a band-aid on a smaller problem, they wait until they are drowning in issues/problems at which point they then need way more than a mere band-aid.
 

Assistance is also there to help cover housing (rent/mortgage), medical costs, clothing, and some other things like transportation to work.  If you sit down with the Bishop he will go over where things and at and seek inspiration from the Lord on where the church should provide help, and make a plan for moving forward to being self sufficient.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

5 hours ago, ldsister said:

I absolutely believe that the Lord prompted the move, but does that mean that selling plasma to pay Little League fees is going against his will? If so, how? 

Doing it against your husbands' will is going against the Lord's will.  You each belong to each other, not to yourself.

  1Cor 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

5 hours ago, ldsister said:

I must not have communicated clearly. All those emergencies were paid for immediately, in full, with cash. Paying for them left us without funds for luxuries like sports, music lessons, or our planned anniversary getaway. The only way the Bishop's storehouse would play into this situation would be if we took that food and then spent our grocery money on sports, music lessons, and anniversary vacations. I might be misunderstanding the purpose of the Bishop's storehouse, but wouldn't that be an inappropriate use of it? 

Yes, it would be inappropriate.  Welfare funds are for life, not lifestyle. Those are nice that but they are not worth upending family life over.  Lots of families do without those and do just fine.  Everybody here can make a long list of things we would have liked to give our kids and didn't.

If the kids are old enough they can earn the money for it themselves too. Deliver flyers/newspapers/catalogs etc.  It will be good for them.  My 13 year old is making paracord bracelets and paracord watchbands to sell to raise money to go to a Scout jamboree next year.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

4 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

3. Getaway: Go camping. Teach each other how to give real massages. Borrow someone's timeshare and trade them your X service/talent. Do a staycation instead. Be creative vs. spendy.

One of the best anniversary 'getaways' we had was we arranged for all our kids to have sleep overs at their friend's homes, and we had our home all to our selves Friday night and all day Saturday.  We had a small buffet of cold cuts and cheese and crackers and such so no big meal prep or cleanup, just being together.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

4 hours ago, ldsister said:

I believe you can donate 3 times a week, and it pays 15/15/20. Like you, I don't think it would be that bad. 

Your husband might be agreeable to do it once as a trial, see how it goes, then revisit the issue, but don't do it against his will.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

2 hours ago, ldsister said:

Mmmm . . . that's part of what I'm feeling. *I* would never tell him not to do something like that. I'd let it be his choice. If he wanted to sell plasma to buy a video game or a concert ticket, I'd say, "Well, you pass out when you get blood drawn, but you're a competent adult, so I trust you're going to do your research and manage your business." 

Is the lack of the reverse mutual respect? 

Your husband has a duty to provide and protect his family, including his wife.  If he doesn't feel it is right, and even if he can't explain why he doesn't feel it is right, you need to respect that.

[ldsister]

17 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Yes, it would be inappropriate.  Welfare funds are for life, not lifestyle. Those are nice that but they are not worth upending family life over.  Lots of families do without those and do just fine.  Everybody here can make a long list of things we would have liked to give our kids and didn't.

If the kids are old enough they can earn the money for it themselves too. Deliver flyers/newspapers/catalogs etc.  It will be good for them.  My 13 year old is making paracord bracelets and paracord watchbands to sell to raise money to go to a Scout jamboree next year.

I want to be very clear here. I have never suggested or considered asking the church for help. *Someone else* suggested that, and I immediately explained that that was not appropriate for this situation. 

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, ldsister said:

I want to be very clear here. I have never suggested or considered asking the church for help. *Someone else* suggested that, and I immediately explained that that was not appropriate for this situation. 

We get it-or at least I do. 

 You sound like a very thoughtful person. I admire you for taking your husbands thoughts and feelings into consideration. Make sure he's doing the same for you. It's a two way street. Neither one of you should boss the other around. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by MormonGator

[ldsister]

1 hour ago, yjacket said:

ldssister . . .Welcome to life!  There is a great lyrical song that goes something like this:

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you might find
You get what you need

It appears to me that there is a greater problem here than just simply wanting extra money.  It is called covetousness and it afflicts all of mankind. We see what others have and we want what they have. We see others taking their kids to the Museum of going on lavish vacations and we want it too. I wouldn't be talking about this, but you previously posted about your desire to not pay tithing.  That topic and this topic lead me to believe that there is a bigger problem here. 

It really does stink sometimes in life-we see others with the fancy car, the fancy house, the vacations and think, I should have that too-or even I should have just a small part of that. Or I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE BROKE.  Yet that has been the majority of the human condition!!! Not much more than subsistence living. And more likely than not, the people we see who have those things are probably drowning in bills, debt, etc. Part of this mortal condition is learning to be satisfied with what the Lord gives us; we are always striving to improve our life and have better, nicer things but at the end of the day what we have doesn't matter so much as who we are.

I can absolutely 100% guarantee that your kids will be just fine if they don't have piano lessons, if they don't do martial arts and whatever other thing is out there. In fact, the lessons you are teaching them by forgoing these wants and living frugally will 100% be a more important teaching you can impart to them.

I have learned in life that there are almost always a way to cut back and save even more, even if it is only 2 dollars a month, if it is through tightening the belt, not eating as much, couponing, etc. there is some way to always save more money. Take cell phones for example, no one needs a cell phone.  I've always considered if I have a roof over my head, food in my stomach and clothes on my back it is a good day.  There are too many people in this world who don't even have that. For a while I did the magic jack thing, cheap and I didn't pay for a cell phone bill-save an extra $30+/month for an inconvenience.

As a suggestion, I would not do the FSA (if that is what you have), very bad idea-horrible financially very little benefits, hardly any roll-over and you lose money if you don't use it. I would suggest getting an HSA plan. The money rolls-over every year no penalties, generally once you have a certain amount you can start investing the money like a 401k plan and it's a top-line tax deduction. To take full advantage you have to have a High-deductible plan (which generally are pretty good-but are worse now due to ObamaCare- THANKS OBAMA!!!!), but they are much cheaper than full-insurance. You can pare the high-deductible plan with an accident rider on the side market that will pick up insurance costs due to any type of accident and I've found some that cover up to the deductible amount. It's not perfect, but I've found it's the cheapest way to go (and I've had a lot of health bills in my life).

Anywho . . .learning to be satisfied with what we have while still fighting to have more is a big challenge.

I remember a quote that goes something like this (written by a woman), stay under your husband's counsel so that he is standing tall enough that if he messes up God can whack him (or STTE).

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that cutting back is the FIRST place you go. Since the money saved is untaxed and untithed, a penny saved is actually worth about 1.33 cents earned.  There comes a point, however, where the financial returns of economizing have reached peak efficiency and what needs to happen next is increased income. I believe we're at the point. 

As far as FLEX, it's been such a great investment for us. It's untaxed, it does have some rollover, and we always use every drnop of it. We're quite grateful for the program and only wish the Federal government allowed us to do more.

I agree that my kids will be fine without piano lessons, and if fine is the best I can do, then I'll settle for it. But if I can do better with a few weekly donations, why not do it? (The child for whom I'd like these lessons is four, so it's not reasonable to expect him to earn the money for the lessons.)

[Latter-Day Marriage]

For less than $125 you can get a keyboard and a course to learn how to read music and play hymns

https://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category3_715839595_10557_3074457345616706224_-1_N_image_0

If you are lucky, it might be available to use for free from the Ward library (or you might be able to talk the Bishop into getting it for the Ward Library), or just get the course and practice on the Ward's pianos.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Latter-Day Marriage

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, NightSG said:

This isn't selling eggs on the black market in the back room at the tattoo parlor.

I just went to a tattoo convention this weekend. Paradise man, paradise. 

Karate lessons kept me sane during some difficult times in childhood. They can also give huge benefits to your child in the form of self-confidence. It teaches you how to deal with loss, how to deal with bullies. It's something to certainly think of. 

You sound like a great mom and wife! Your family is very lucky. 

[ldsister]

7 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

For less than $125 you can get a keyboard and a course to learn how to read music and play hymns

https://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category3_715839595_10557_3074457345616706224_-1_N_image_0

Thanks! Are you familiar with this product? Would it be suitable for someone who doesn't play the piano to teach their preschooler to play the piano? 

[yjacket]

17 minutes ago, ldsister said:

There comes a point, however, where the financial returns of economizing have reached peak efficiency and what needs to happen next is increased income. I believe we're at the point. 

As far as FLEX, it's been such a great investment for us. It's untaxed, it does have some rollover, and we always use every drnop of it. We're quite grateful for the program and only wish the Federal government allowed us to do more.

I agree that my kids will be fine without piano lessons, and if fine is the best I can do, then I'll settle for it. But if I can do better with a few weekly donations, why not do it? (The child for whom I'd like these lessons is four, so it's not reasonable to expect him to earn the money for the lessons.)

I'm glad FLEX has been good for you . . .  I don't mean to harp but I do find disconcerting the term "I'll settle for it".  As for piano lessons for a 4-year old- you are 100%, guaranteed to be completely throwing your money away.  I had piano lessons for many years growing up; a 4-year old is absolutely way to young for piano lessons, unless you want to post some cutesy youtube video and show off to all your friends about how "talented" your 4-year-old is. Which if that is the reason why says more about the parent then the actual development of the child.

The only way a 4 year old should have piano lessons is if they are some kind of child prodigy and I highly doubt that is the case here. 6-7 okay sure, 4 not a chance.

The 4 year old will be way better off developmentally, emotional, etc. by some good-ol fashioned playing, running around, etc.  Piano lessons require #1 the student to read and most 4 year olds either a) don't know how to read or b) have a hard time reading. And #2 they require discipline to practice and unless you want to stand over the child with a switch at 4, no 4 year old is going to have the discipline to practice what is required.

My kids were awesome readers @ 4 and there is no way I'd even consider lessons at 4 . . . but hey if you want to blow your money away I guarantee you there will be someone willing to take it from you.

Your husband is wise to refuse this for you child; way more important things for a 4 year-old to be doing than learning piano lessons.

Piano lessons are great, but not everyone can afford them or afford martial arts, etc.  There is a term for this. . . . it's called Keeping up with the Jones.

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by yjacket

[Latter-Day Marriage]

6 minutes ago, ldsister said:

Thanks! Are you familiar with this product? Would it be suitable for someone who doesn't play the piano to teach their preschooler to play the piano? 

The keyboard would be fine for that.  Probably a bit too limited for going on tour with a rock band.  I think the course is more aimed at youth and above.  The church is good about returns too.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Latter-Day Marriage

[Sunday21]

Dear lds sister,

i know just how you feel! If selling plasma was legal in my country, I would have been there regularly as a student! Honestly my first thought was 'can I nip over the border and tap a vein?' 

Yeah, you could economize or do with out but you have been doing that for so long that life is beginning to take on a grey tinge like old dishwater. You could use a break! One of the women in my ward sells makeup online. She is really successful but she is also a great saleswoman and not everyone is. Hmmm. I would ask Hubble if he would mind if you just did it once. If he is looking stubborn at the moment, give it a few weeks. 

Anyway I sympathize. Know just how you feel. My thing is working long hours...yeah I am grateful to have a job but I also wish it would stop!

Edited September 21, 2016 by Sunday21

[ldsister]

2 hours ago, yjacket said:

6 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

The keyboard would be fine for that.  Probably a bit too limited for going on tour with a rock band.  I think the course is more aimed at youth and above.  The church is good about returns too.

We have a piano, so it's more the instruction I'm wondering about. How would the instruction kit work for someone who doesn't play the piano to teach a 4-year-old to play?