Words Will Definitely Hurt You

[Third Hour]

“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” Okay, listen up: I have some major beefs with this phrase. Who exactly made up that “sticks and stones” quote? Because I have some questions for her (or him, but whatever). Was she having sticks and stones thrown at her? Things that seem like a bad idea to say when people are throwing things at you: “Sticks and stones may break my bones…” Uh, duh. That's probably exactly what they're trying to do, and now you're just adding fuel to their fire by taunting them. In all seriousness, though, my guess is that no one was throwing sticks or stones at anyone. My bet is that people were verbally attacking this quote’s creator and she (or he) wanted to prove that their words didn’t affect her. And maybe their words didn’t hurt her. I commend people who are able to brush off insults or hurtful comments easily. That’s such a wonderful quality to have and I wish I were...

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[Vort]

1 hour ago, ldsnet said:

Who exactly made up that “sticks and stones” quote? Because I have some questions for her (or him, but whatever). Was she having sticks and stones thrown at her?

Probably not. That would indeed be stupid. Rather, she was probably reminding herself (or someone else) that people saying nasty things to you hurts you only if you allow it to. This is less true for children, but for adults, part of being grown up is overlooking or at least getting past the nastiness of others.

The alternative to "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me" is "You said something nasty to me and it hurt me! That should not be legal!" And the result of that is the absurd free speech attacks we see on college campuses across the US.

The saying is a little gem of deep wisdom, given to our children to help them on the path to becoming grown-ups. Only today, society has strayed so far from these obvious principles that we have people seriously arguing that the phrase is untrue.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but: Well, duh.

(For the record, I actually agree with the thrust of this article. I think it's sweet. But the saying is an important truism and should be incorporated into our worldview, not dismissed lightly.)

Edited December 19, 2016 by Vort

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

 but for adults, part of being grown up is overlooking or at least getting past the nastiness of others.

Amen. As an adult there are times you really do need to put on your big boy/girl pants and move on. If you can't handle that, you are in for a miserable life. 

I can be very petty and I hold grudges forever so I know what the OP is saying, but I actually agree with @Vort here. Do as I say, not as I do with this one. 

[anatess2]

If words does not hurt then there wouldn't be a commandment that says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness".

[Guest]

I tend to think that words are just as damaging as physical harm.  But I also think there is a certain amount of both physical or verbal "abuse" for lack of a better term that we're simply supposed to brush off as mature adults.

The judgment comes in when we try to determine where to draw the line.

Physical Example: If people are moving around fairly quickly in a crowded public square, many people are going to bump into one another.  Sometimes it is even hard enough to leave a mark.  Sometimes, bullies will take advantage of such circumstances and put in a lick and pretend it was unintentional.  It doesn't make it right.  It doesn't make it excusable.  But it is something that people, unfortunately, have to learn to brush off.

Verbal Example: A single person calling someone a name on a single day is annoying.  But when an entire group of people decide to make it their mission in life to criticize and ostracize an individual and do so at every opportunity (which is multiple times a day) it takes an extraordinary person indeed to be able to continue brushing it off.

It is unfortunate that many of us grew up in a time when such people (verbal abusers) were only the minority in some people's lives.  But today, we have organized groupies whose really do make it their mission in life to make someone else feel like they are worthless.

While I'm all about trying to brush some things off, I'm well aware of the reality that kids today have to deal with what we simply did not have to deal with when we were kids.

[Vort]

I agree with much of what you write, Carb. But the last two paragraphs, not so much.

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

It is unfortunate that many of us grew up in a time when such people (verbal abusers) were only the minority in some people's lives.  But today, we have organized groupies whose really do make it their mission in life to make someone else feel like they are worthless.

I doubt you really mean that you think it "unfortunate" that many of us may have grown up in more polite times. But I also think that I don't believe it. I don't think people are particularly meaner today than one or two generations ago. I think public discourse is far more coarse, and I think many people are more coarse in their personal interactions. I think there is much less tolerance in some areas, like toward the religious or the politically/socially conservative, but more in other areas. On the whole, I think people are largely the same as they were in my childhood as far as being impolite and mean goes.

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

While I'm all about trying to brush some things off, I'm well aware of the reality that kids today have to deal with what we simply did not have to deal with when we were kids.

Again, i don't believe this. Not as far as people being mean, anyway. I do agree that children today have to learn to process a lot more filth and vulgarity than we did, but probably not personally directed verbal abuse. If anything, in many instances they appear to deal with less of that sort of crap.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Vort

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

 

Again, i don't believe this. Not as far as people being mean, anyway. I do agree that children today have to learn to process a lot more filth and vulgarity than we did, but probably not personally directed verbal abuse. If anything, in many instances they appear to deal with less of that sort of crap.

@Carborendum is exactly right about this Vort. When you were growing up they had chisels and stone tablets (playing!) for communication. Not so today. Kids today have to deal with cyber bullying, which is horrific. They also have the potential to see their mistakes broadcast around the world, which is also disturbing. It's a different world for kids today. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest MormonGator]

Growing up how we did and how kids today grow up is like comparing college football to the NFL. While it might look similar in reality it's a completely different game. 

[Vort]

15 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

@Carborendum is exactly right about this Vort. When you were growing up they had chisels and stone tablets (playing!) for communication. Not so today. Kids today have to deal with cyber bullying, which is horrific. They also have the potential to see their mistakes broadcast around the world, which is also disturbing. It's a different world for kids today. 

I don't buy it. The sort of concentrated viciousness allowed in previous generations and the cowardice and unwillingness of authorities such as public school teachers and administrators to deal directly with open bullying has long been the norm. I do not believe those elements are significantly worse today. Cyberbullying? Sure, that exists now and didn't back then. But that all alone doesn't make things worse today on the bullying front.

[Guest MormonGator]

21 minutes ago, Vort said:

I don't buy it. The sort of concentrated viciousness allowed in previous generations and the cowardice and unwillingness of authorities such as public school teachers and administrators to deal directly with open bullying has long been the norm. I do not believe those elements are significantly worse today. Cyberbullying? Sure, that exists now and didn't back then. But that all alone doesn't make things worse today on the bullying front.

While you are correct that viciousness has always been there,  it's totally different now. Example-When my pops (Baby boomer) was in high school bullying was usually addressed by the two-three parties involved. You get into a fight fight. One guy wins, one loses, it's over. Now, one guy wins, gloats online and it's broadcast on Facebook and social media with the entire school jumping in. Also, the kid being bullied now gets yelled at by teachers for getting into a fight even though he was just defending himself. 

You admitted that there is more filth and vulgarity out there today (and I agree) that's another problem. Back when we grew up you had to swipe dirty magazines from the local store and hope you weren't caught. Now, you can get it all from your laptop.Very sad indeed. 

Kids today have it substantially worse than we ever did. I feel sorry for them.  

Edited December 19, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I doubt you really mean that you think it "unfortunate" that many of us may have grown up in more polite times.

I guess that was a poor order of words.  What I meant was that we were more fortunate to grow up in more fortunate times.  So, it is unfortunate that today's kids live in a social order of school aged kids that are much more verbally abusive than we were used to.

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I think public discourse is far more coarse, and I think many people are more coarse in their personal interactions.

Agreed.  I think this supports my position more than yours.

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I think there is much less tolerance in some areas, like toward the religious or the politically/socially conservative, but more in other areas.

I find the first phrases to be true.  But the "more in other areas" is a myth.  There is not more "tolerance".  There is more "permissiveness".  Big difference.

1 hour ago, Vort said:

On the whole, I think people are largely the same as they were in my childhood as far as being impolite and mean goes.

If true, I think we had different childhoods.  Yes, I got teased a lot.  But most of the time it was because kids were just being kids.  People teased one another, to be sure.  And insults were thrown around.  Even ethnic jokes were the norm and no one thought about lawsuits over such stupidity.  But when recess was over, pretty much everyone made friends again -- even among those who were insulting each other.  The people that didn't were the bullies of the day.  There really were few of them.

Today, the best I can tell is that large groups of people are now bullies.  That's the best way I can describe it.  What makes it worse is that because of social media, it is more difficult to escape it.  Even when you get home, it follows you.  It is so bad that even with loving families, we have kids committing suicide.  I don't recall ANYone who did that because of bullying.

It is easy to say that you simply shut off your phone or don't check your email.  But you have to check them for classes nowadays.  And the laws are such that you can't press charges against people in many instances for this crap.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Guest

[Vort]

49 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

f true, I think we had different childhoods.  Yes, I got teased a lot.  But most of the time it was because kids were just being kids.  People teased one another, to be sure.  And insults were thrown around.  Even ethnic jokes were the norm and no one thought about lawsuits over such stupidity.  But when recess was over, pretty much everyone made friends again -- even among those who were insulting each other.

Yes. We had very different childhoods.

[prisonchaplain]

Somebody has to bring up the obvious, so it might as well be PC.  As a first-grader, we were indoctrinated both with the "sticks and stones" saying and, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."  They were actual jingles.  The idea was that we boys and girls had to "man up," and not let the foolish insults of others hold us back.  At the same time we were to be better than them, and not engage in the same foolishness.

Flash forward 45 years, and we have 19-year-olds facing live combat in foreign lands like Afghanistan, on the one hand, and 21-year-old co-eds retreating to coloring rooms, so they can cope with unwanted political results on the other.  Maybe instead of free college, we ought to offer free and mandatory military service to our young? 

[Guest MormonGator]

Even though adults should be strong enough to move on if they are offended/bullied, that doesn't make it okay or moral to be a bully or a generally unpleasant/ obnoxious person. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by MormonGator