Gender Identification - NO HATE!

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

it is a proven fact

A statement that inspires confidence.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

But didnt you state- " While my family had many issues that I certainly found disdainful,"? 

Of course I did.  What's that got to do with it?  My point was that we didn't have a perfect family.  And you agreed with the idea that no one did.  But you're choosing to magnify this just so you can hold on to your opinion that I've shown to be pure sophistry.

5 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

 it is extremely difficult in todays world as parents to create an environment where children have the greatest chance. 

Today's world?  I think you underestimate just how old I am.

5 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Parents who do not work hard everyday on their marriage in constant prayer, service, and humble actions to protect and improve their marriage will fail in many areas in creating that environment conducive for their childrens success in every area including their sexuality.

So, in other words almost everyone could have a gay person in their family and it's all the parents' fault?  And if I sin in any way shape or form, if I have asperger's, if I suffer from depression, if I have violent tendencies... It's all my parents' fault.

I'm so glad I can blame it all on them.  Thanks.

No, of course that's not what you said.  But that really is the logical conclusion of what you said.

[Rob Osborn]

39 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Of course I did.  What's that got to do with it?  My point was that we didn't have a perfect family.  And you agreed with the idea that no one did.  But you're choosing to magnify this just so you can hold on to your opinion that I've shown to be pure sophistry.

Today's world?  I think you underestimate just how old I am.

So, in other words almost everyone could have a gay person in their family and it's all the parents' fault?  And if I sin in any way shape or form, if I have asperger's, if I suffer from depression, if I have violent tendencies... It's all my parents' fault.

I'm so glad I can blame it all on them.  Thanks.

No, of course that's not what you said.  But that really is the logical conclusion of what you said.

The belief that people in general are just "born that way" or have an opposite gendered spirit in the wrong body to me is pure nonsense. I say this in light of societies known problems with morality and family relationships. If we can imagine what the millennium will be like, I see it as a place where immorality doesnt exist and families are strong and together. Due to this fact, I do not see a society plagued by gender or sexual identity confusion like we have in this fallen world. We have steadily been getting more morally corrupt since the early part of the 20th century. As such, the traditional family is on the decline and marriage is also on the decline, divorce is rising, out of marriage sex is rising, children born and raised by single parents is rising. Sexually transmitted diseases are rising as is sexual promiscuity also. Pornography, which was almost nonexistant or very hard to come by a hundred years ago is rampant and pretty much shoved on us now. All of these factors have contributed to the myriads of problems in all aspects of society. You can trace every one of these problems down to the moral principle or lack thereof of each individual and its effect it has had on destroying the family. These very factors are indeed the very cause for the problems of sexual and gender identity orientation confusion and deviancy that now plague us.

 

[Rob Osborn]

http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/05/whats-really-behind-americas-transgender-mania/

[Rob Osborn]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/what-wish-id-known-undergoing-transgender-surgery-470386%3Famp%3D1?client=ms-android-verizon

[mordorbund]

 

16 hours ago, anatess2 said:

16 hours ago, Vort said:

Careful. Those are what we call "kissing cousins".

Eeeewww... we're not in North Carolina!  LOL!

Must be an ugly family.

[anatess2]

14 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

The conditioning happens in all male schools where students are in seminary. The statistics have shown that there are more gay students and priests, etc, in Catholic schools than in the general population of the United States.

This, once again, is wrong.

Seminary is the preparatory school for Holy Orders.  You can't receive Holy Orders unless you attend and graduate from Seminary.  As I've already told you, gay and lesbian Catholics who do not think they can succeed in Holy Matrimony take the vow of celibacy and become Priests and Nuns.  Therefore, they attend Seminary.  This is a GOOD THING.  The Mormon Church also encourage gay and lesbian Mormons who do not think they can succeed in Eternal Marriage to be celibate.

No, Seminary doesn't make Catholic boys gay in the same manner that all-male Military Academies or all-male colleges such as Wabash don't make American boys gay.

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

The belief that people in general are just "born that way" or have an opposite gendered spirit in the wrong body to me is pure nonsense.

What way?  Homosexual or transgendered?  While related, I don't believe them to be the same issue because of the prevalence of sexually ambiguous bodies.  Apart from that, yes, I'd agree that they are related.

As far as homosexuality, perhaps it is best if you started a new thread and we can address it there.

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This, once again, is wrong.

Seminary is the preparatory school for Holy Orders.  You can't receive Holy Orders unless you attend and graduate from Seminary.  As I've already told you, gay and lesbian Catholics who do not think they can succeed in Holy Matrimony take the vow of celibacy and become Priests and Nuns.  Therefore, they attend Seminary.  This is a GOOD THING.  The Mormon Church also encourage gay and lesbian Mormons who do not think they can succeed in Eternal Marriage to be celibate.

No, Seminary doesn't make Catholic boys gay in the same manner that all-male Military Academies or all-male colleges such as Wabash don't make American boys gay.

 

Well, you are entitled to your own opinion.

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

What way?  Homosexual or transgendered?  While related, I don't believe them to be the same issue because of the prevalence of sexually ambiguous bodies.  Apart from that, yes, I'd agree that they are related.

As far as homosexuality, perhaps it is best if you started a new thread and we can address it there.

I dont see very much difference in transgenders and homosexuals. 

[Vort]

18 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I dont see very much difference in transgenders and homosexuals. 

You know, Rob, you exhibit surprisingly little empathy. Most of us on this site are not looking to celebrate or even justify sin or perversion. But the ability to see through another's eyes and understand another's position is a powerful and useful trait, and it begins with having empathy.

The difference between the two is profound, even stark, if you care to look.

• Homosexuality: Sexual attraction to members of one's own sex.
• Transgender: Someone who identifies as a member of the opposite sex.

The two issues may or may not be related, and in some cases may even be separate manifestations of the same underlying issue, but they are clearly not the same thing.

[anatess2]

32 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Well, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Catholicism is not an opinion unless you believe Mormonism is also an opinion.

 

[anatess2]

10 minutes ago, Vort said:

You know, Rob, you exhibit surprisingly little empathy. Most of us on this site are not looking to celebrate or even justify sin or perversion. But the ability to see through another's eyes and understand another's position is a powerful and useful trait, and it begins with having empathy.

 

This.

I don't know how many religious folks lack empathy... but even if it's only a few, those few sour apples in the orchard gives the militants in the LGBT community reason to wage war against religion.

[Rob Osborn]

32 minutes ago, Vort said:

You know, Rob, you exhibit surprisingly little empathy. Most of us on this site are not looking to celebrate or even justify sin or perversion. But the ability to see through another's eyes and understand another's position is a powerful and useful trait, and it begins with having empathy.

The difference between the two is profound, even stark, if you care to look.

• Homosexuality: Sexual attraction to members of one's own sex.
• Transgender: Someone who identifies as a member of the opposite sex.

The two issues may or may not be related, and in some cases may even be separate manifestations of the same underlying issue, but they are clearly not the same thing.

I have a hard time showing empathy towards sinfulness. The LGBT community has a drive to normalize and embrace sexual deviancy. They have already been successful in convincing the masses that its normal to want to cut off perfectly working body parts (sex change)and then tell everyone its not a disorder. Then they get mad when people like me dont want to play pretend with them wanting me to pretend a boy is is a girl.

[Rob Osborn]

35 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Catholicism is not an opinion unless you believe Mormonism is also an opinion.

 

Catholic all male schools have a higher percentage of homosexuals than the general public.. Thats a fact.

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I have a hard time showing empathy towards sinfulness. The LGBT community has a drive to normalize and embrace sexual deviancy. They have already been successful in convincing the masses that its normal to want to cut off perfectly working body parts (sex change)and then tell everyone its not a disorder. Then they get mad when people like me dont want to play pretend with them wanting me to pretend a boy is is a girl.

The funny thing is that I agree with everything you wrote above, and yet I still maintain that you have an empathy deficiency.

You are not being asked to show empathy toward sin. You are required to show empathy for your fellow beings who find themselves in a fallen state, and more often than not in the grip of sin. Can you imagine if the Lord had been as aloof as you are? Can you imagine his response to the woman taken in adultery -- IN THE VERY ACT?

You claim to see little difference between transgenders and homosexuals. This does not reflect well either on your powers of perception or on your ability to empathize with other human beings. You are not asked to embrace sin, but you are asked to at least make honest effort to understand why people think and feel as they do.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

I dont see very much difference in transgenders and homosexuals. 

Well, I thought I pointed that out.  

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

What way?  Homosexual or transgendered?  While related, I don't believe them to be the same issue because of the prevalence of sexually ambiguous bodies.  Apart from that, yes, I'd agree that they are related.

There are some people who are born with sexually ambiguous bodies.  Some are hermaphrodites.  Some are fertile.  Others (like Klinefelter's syndrome) are infertile.  Some are XY chromosomed individuals who (due to hormonal imbalance in the womb) ended up with female parts (and the reverse resulting in male parts).

Not all transgendered are the type that the OP described.  For his (the OP's) case, I'd agree with you that it is unambiguously just plain confusion and emotion that is not based in reality.  But I'm talking to YOU about these other cases where there is ambiguity.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

20 minutes ago, Vort said:

The funny thing is that I agree with everything you wrote above, and yet I still maintain that you have an empathy deficiency.

You are not being asked to show empathy toward sin. You are required to show empathy for your fellow beings who find themselves in a fallen state, and more often than not in the grip of sin. Can you imagine if the Lord had been as aloof as you are? Can you imagine his response to the woman taken in adultery -- IN THE VERY ACT?

You claim to see little difference between transgenders and homosexuals. This does not reflect well either on your powers of perception or on your ability to empathize with other human beings. You are not asked to embrace sin, but you are asked to at least make honest effort to understand why people think and feel as they do.

One of the most frustrating things in life is realizing that some people lack the ability to see any view point other than there own. I pity those people, it's a tough way to live your life. Poor dears. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by MormonGator

[SilentOne]

8 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Catholic all male schools have a higher percentage of homosexuals than the general public.. Thats a fact.

From what I understood Anatess to be saying, she was arguing the reasons for the stats. You said it's because Catholic seminaries make students gay. Anatess says it's because gay Catholics are more likely to go to seminaries than are straight Catholics.

[NightSG]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

Can you imagine if the Lord had been as aloof as you are? Can you imagine his response to the woman taken in adultery -- IN THE VERY ACT?

Funny; I don't remember the woman demanding that He accept and embrace adultery as an acceptable or even praiseworthy social norm because it's just how she is.

[Vort]

1 minute ago, NightSG said:

Funny; I don't remember the woman demanding that He accept and embrace adultery as an acceptable or even praiseworthy social norm because it's just how she is.

True enough. But that is beside the point.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NightSG said:

Funny; I don't remember the woman demanding that He accept and embrace adultery as an acceptable or even praiseworthy social norm because it's just how she is.

Well, in the case of the OP, it sounds like he's trying to be compliant with the Law of the Gospel.

[Rob Osborn]

18 minutes ago, Vort said:

The funny thing is that I agree with everything you wrote above, and yet I still maintain that you have an empathy deficiency.

You are not being asked to show empathy toward sin. You are required to show empathy for your fellow beings who find themselves in a fallen state, and more often than not in the grip of sin. Can you imagine if the Lord had been as aloof as you are? Can you imagine his response to the woman taken in adultery -- IN THE VERY ACT?

You claim to see little difference between transgenders and homosexuals. This does not reflect well either on your powers of perception or on your ability to empathize with other human beings. You are not asked to embrace sin, but you are asked to at least make honest effort to understand why people think and feel as they do.

I honestly find it difficult to have empathy for the general movement of gays and transgenders. Like I said before, I know two people who became transgenders and watched their slow gradual fall. I watched the light go out in them as they steadily began to deny God and embrace sin. During this they became hostile towards all who will not pretend with them about their changed genders. How is it that I am supposed to feel empathy for them? Thats like saying we should find empathy for pornography stars.

[Guest]

Just now, Rob Osborn said:

Thats like saying we should find empathy for pornography stars.

You think we should not?

[lostinwater]

15 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

This.

I don't know how many religious folks lack empathy... but even if it's only a few, those few sour apples in the orchard gives the militants in the LGBT community reason to wage war against religion.

This is the sad thing.  People are reduced into groups - and then those groups are judged by their extremists.  It's too much work to evaluate someone as a person - because it requires us to look beyond the easy, clear-cut biases we have about the groups we think they belong to.  

It's no coincidence that absolute statements and a lack of personal experience about something typically go hand in hand.  Not in everything of course - but in an awful lot of them.