lostinwater Posted February 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, miav said: "ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose." It's beyond me that anyone can read these words and still not get that gender is both important and has a divine purpose both in heaven and on earth. It says it so plainly said that to see people dance around it like it can be interpreted differently is painful. Thank-you. Really do not mean to cause anyone pain. I probably come across as very flippant at times - but please realize that is not my intention. I actually do think that gender is very important and has a divine purpose. I guess what i don't necessarily agree with is the idea that the mortal body we know is fallen and corrupted will always be an accurate reflection of our eternal gender - any more than i feel that a cleft palate or down syndrome is something that will follow a person into the eternities. And when I hear of people like the ones described in this link (people who have experienced spontaneous pregnancies, as they have both sets of sex organs in their body), it reinforces my belief. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19155947 Do you feel that those people in this story are fabricated? And I respect if you do. Doesn't seem like they would be - but possible i guess. If not, what is the divine gender of these people? where do you draw the line between those who willfully disobey the proclamation you cite above - assuming they believe it (most are probably not members) - and those who are innocent? for me, it used to be all based on what i was able to perceive with my own eyes. But i have come to believe that just because someone's 'reflection' (ie gender) in a mirror appears clear to me - it does not 100% of the time mean that my assumptions as to the meaning of that reflection are accurate. Please don't mistake me here - there is no demand for societal transformation behind any of my statements - and that i think is what many people on this thread are probably correctly angered and frightened by. The only thing i chafe against is the unequivocal linkage of transgender feelings with mortal sin, mental illness, or both. Again - thank-you for your comment. Edited February 18, 2017 by lostinwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjacket Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 My last comment on this; I pretty much agree with Ben Shapiro on transgenderism, mostly on abortion, but not so extreme: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Osborn Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 0:50 PM, NeuroTypical said: @Rob Osborn, sorry, could you identify a date range in American history, prior to which, there were no gender identity problems at all? I would have to go back to a time when we didnt have morality and family breakdown problems. Its obviously a lot worse today than it was 200 years ago. NeuroTypical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwater Posted February 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, yjacket said: My last comment on this; I pretty much agree with Ben Shapiro on transgenderism, mostly on abortion, but not so extreme: Thank-you. No question who looked like a fool in that video. Though the argument was centered around his rejection of the idea that society dissolve their concepts of gender to satisfy the trans rights community. i realize many things are a function of perception - but from the very first, i've explicitly said that is not what i am advocating. i am so sorry and confused - that despite everything that has already been said - that you still insist that is what this post has ever been about. Edited February 18, 2017 by lostinwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 14 hours ago, Rob Osborn said: I would have to go back to a time when we didnt have morality and family breakdown problems. Its obviously a lot worse today than it was 200 years ago. I don't know how we could know this is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike said: I don't know how we could know this is true. It's not true. It's easy to complain about "family breakdown! Society!" and all that when we live to old age, have low infant mortality rates, nice and comfortable heated/air conditioned houses....in reality our ancestors would be stunned about how much we complain today. Ingratitude has many forms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 34 minutes ago, MormonGator said: It's not true. It's easy to complain about "family breakdown! Society!" and all that when we live to old age, have low infant mortality rates, nice and comfortable heated/air conditioned houses....in reality our ancestors would be stunned about how much we complain today. Ingratitude has many forms. Now, that's an opinion I can drink to. (As long as we're drinking milk, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mike said: Now, that's an opinion I can drink to. (As long as we're drinking milk, right?) I heard you prefer vodka! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, MormonGator said: I heard you prefer vodka! It's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) Oops Edited February 18, 2017 by Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Osborn Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 12 hours ago, Mike said: I don't know how we could know this is true. Yeah, its all subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 17 hours ago, Rob Osborn said: Yeah, its all subjective. That being the case I wonder if you can say what makes you feel that gender identity problems arose out of a societal breakdown in morals and family at some time in the last 200 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mike said: That being the case I wonder if you can say what makes you feel that gender identity problems arose out of a societal breakdown in morals and family at some time in the last 200 years? I've noticed that every generation thinks they live in the end times and everything is as bad as it'll ever get. The automobile will lead to the end of of civilization! The telephone will lead to the end of civilization! The radio is the devils tool! The television will cause the end of society! The computer will doom us all!(I've seen people talk about how computers will doom us all...in online forums. Dead serious) Edited February 20, 2017 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MormonGator said: I've noticed that every generation thinks they live in the end times and everything is as bad as it'll ever get. The automobile will lead to the end of of civilization! The telephone will lead to the end of civilization! The radio is the devils tool! The television will cause the end of society! The computer will doom us all!(I've seen people talk about how computers will doom us all...in online forums. Dead serious) Right. Of course in terms of raw numbers there are more of every kind of persons being discussed on this thread. But there are more of *every* kind of person, period (if you take my meaning). Edited February 20, 2017 by Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Mike said: Right. Of course in terms of raw numbers there are more of every kind of persons being discussed on this thread. But there are more of *every* kind of person, period (if you take my meaning). It's not that I'm naive to social ills going on in 2017. I just take a big picture approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 16 hours ago, MormonGator said: It's not that I'm naive to social ills going on in 2017. I just take a big picture approach. Seems like your approach is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 16 hours ago, MormonGator said: I've noticed that every generation thinks they live in the end times and everything is as bad as it'll ever get. The automobile will lead to the end of of civilization! The telephone will lead to the end of civilization! The radio is the devils tool! The television will cause the end of society! The computer will doom us all!(I've seen people talk about how computers will doom us all...in online forums. Dead serious) I believe gators are the end of civilization as we know it. Why, only thirty years ago there were fewer than 10,000 gators IN THE WORLD. Now they're numbering in the tens of billions. We even have a sentient gator right here on this board and he's threatening to end all human life!!! (and more !!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Osborn Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 19 hours ago, Mike said: That being the case I wonder if you can say what makes you feel that gender identity problems arose out of a societal breakdown in morals and family at some time in the last 200 years? Pretty much- common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Osborn Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 18 hours ago, MormonGator said: I've noticed that every generation thinks they live in the end times and everything is as bad as it'll ever get. The automobile will lead to the end of of civilization! The telephone will lead to the end of civilization! The radio is the devils tool! The television will cause the end of society! The computer will doom us all!(I've seen people talk about how computers will doom us all...in online forums. Dead serious) Things certainly are getting worse. The trend shows that immorality is increasing along with all the problems associated with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Carborendum said: I believe gators are the end of civilization as we know it. Why, only thirty years ago there were fewer than 10,000 gators IN THE WORLD. Now they're numbering in the tens of billions. We even have a sentient gator right here on this board and he's threatening to end all human life!!! (and more !!!). End human life? I go a step further. I will eat your soul. 3 hours ago, Mike said: Seems like your approach is a good one. Thanks! 59 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said: Things certainly are getting worse. The trend shows that immorality is increasing along with all the problems associated with it. "This is the end. Beautiful friend, the end."-Jim Morrison. Don't worry @Rob Osborn . With every generation (literally since the time of Christ) saying that one is bound to be right. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Edited February 20, 2017 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, MormonGator said: "This is the end. Beautiful friend, the end."-Jim Morrison. I enjoyed listening to The Doors when I was young. I've thought of those lyrics from time-to-time, but I haven't heard anyone else quote them for ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mike said: I enjoyed listening to The Doors when I was young. I've thought of those lyrics from time-to-time, but I haven't heard anyone else quote them for ages. Uh, not to sound like a jerk but I'm only in my mid thirties. My dad was a big Stones fan so I grew up with music from that era. Edited February 20, 2017 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Uh, not to sound like a jerk but I'm only in my mid thirties. My dad was a big Stones fan so I grew up with music from that era. Then I suppose I'd better not talk about music anymore lest I make it obvious how painfully ancient I really am, hahaha. (When I referred to myself as "young" I was already in my thirties.) Kidding Edited February 20, 2017 by Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike said: Then I suppose I'd better not talk about music anymore lest I make it obvious how painfully ancient I really am, hahaha. lol. It's okay you would be in good company. We have lots of old man here. Have you met @mirkwood or @Carborendum? I'm surprised the rest home allows them to use computers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, MormonGator said: End human life? I go a step further. I will eat your soul. Would that be: or I'd prefer the first. Edited February 20, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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