Gender Identification - NO HATE!

[anatess2]

So, as you all know, I'm pro-Trump (What a shocker!) so it has been my side-interest to listen to people who voted for Trump who I wouldn't have thought would vote for him.  One of them is this transgender boy-to-girl Blair White.  She was on this youtube video explaining her Trump views but I won't link it here because it has f-words.  So, I got interested in her viewpoints.  This one I thought is worth a share on the damage the political left has done to the transgender community that makes it harder for the "real" transgenders to be understood.

http://www.splicetoday.com/politics-and-media/trans-personality-blaire-white-to-progressives-butt-out

 

[Vort]

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

You're not addressing where my shemale rooster is getting this egg laying behavior.  (Or, I guess more accurately, this butch hen who struts around, crows, and 'acts male').  Improper parenting?  Chicken friends or chicken peers?

Wright, Caroline and Raungh, Morticia. "Ere the cock crows: Gender identity, henhouse peer pressure, and power dynamics among domestic fowl." Journal of Barnyard Psychology, v. 237, no. 6, pp. 68-77.

ABSTRACT: Previous studies^{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15} have demonstrated the competitive nature of domestic fowl in a limited-power-resource environment. Marxist feminism has persuasively concluded^{3,7,12,16,17,18} that imbalanced patriarchal dominance of the rooster oppresses the unempowered female contingent, sometimes called the "henhouse proletariat"^9,19,20,21. Castration alone has proven insufficient²² to overcome this dangerous power imbalance. However, new hormone therapies^23,24,25 and cutting-edge recombinant DNA techniques^26,27 have shown promise in neutralizing the unjust rooster privilege, or "cock lock"²⁸ -- or what the ignoranti of the fascist right have called "rooster booster"²⁹. This study seeks to ascertain the effectiveness of gene splicing as a method of creating a matriarchal paradigm of egg-laying "sheesters" (aka "mocks" or "cock-blockers") among Gallus gallus domesticus, with an eye to extending this technique to other benighted domestic fowl species.

[yjacket]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yep, here we see one reason why the suicide rate for this tiny fraction of the population is through the roof.  Their bodies are screaming 'wrong', you turn to your parents for help and understanding, and get stuff like you're suggesting. 

I don't think so-you have no idea that this is the cause only modern psychology and philosophies of men to make this assumption.  Did you interview those who actually did commit suicide?  The suicide rate is through the roof b/c they are seriously messed up individuals and they need help-mostly from God not b/c they aren't "accepted".

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yep, stuff like that always comes from somewhere.  Kids don't just make stuff like that up.  But you don't have the tools to righteously judge the parents.  There's a segment where it's not coming from the home, it's not coming from school, it's not coming from peers.  Only explanation left, is it's coming from inside the kid.

 

No, it's that I understand the true nature of children. The scriptures teach us as much; when I was as a child I thought as a child, when I became a man I put away foolish things.

One of the key aspects about children is that they are foolish-any adult who takes a child seriously that at age 7 knows enough about life, his body, sexuality to make the claim that he is now a she quite frankly doesn't understand children at all.

Look, it is a biological fact that children know nothing about sexuality-they can't.  They only thing they know is what has been taught to them.  Their sexual organs until puberty have 1 function and that is to rid the body of impurities, nothing else.  It is absolute foolishness to even think that a child at 7 knows that "something is wrong with their body", sure that idea might pop into their head, just like a whole host of foolish ideas that pops into a child's mind at that age.  Yet, as parents we don't entertain or attach any seriousness to the idea when the child acts like a horse that he actually wants to be a horse and is indeed a horse-no we dismiss it for what it is, childishness.

It is foolishness to entertain and give heed to a child's foolish desires that at age 7 he knows he should be a she.

Your argument about the rooster is specious; rooster's have nothing to compare with the majestic creation of God's own spiritual posterity. Yes we have the natural man as part of us-but God's desire is for us to put off the natural man and become like He is. . . unless you think He really thinks He should be a She??

Edited February 8, 2017 by yjacket

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Look, it is a biological fact that children know nothing about sexuality-they can't.  They only thing they know is what has been taught to them.  Their sexual organs until puberty have 1 function and that is to rid the body of impurities, nothing else. 

While I'm mostly on your side, this is flat out incorrect.  

I can tell you from personal experience that I was COMPLETELY sexually aware since I was 4 years old.  There were some physiological signs that simply weren't available to me -- i.e. "Attention" was unachievable.  But the "thrill" and the mental awareness were certainly there.

I knew since that age that there was a difference between boys and girls that I didn't fully understand.  But I knew I got a thrill around girls that I didn't get from boys.  As an adult, I can fully and clearly recognize that as sexuality.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Guest

[Vort]

I agree with Carb. Speaking from personal experience, as a boy I was pretty much "fully functional" from the age of four or even earlier -- except of course that I was sexually immature and could not have been a father. But everything else, including explicit sexual attraction to and desire for girls my age, was present. I have never understood the insistence that some have made that children are asexual. That simply is not so.

[yjacket]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I can tell you from personal experience that I was COMPLETELY sexually aware since I was 4 years old.

You knew at 4 what the act of sex was, what it meant?  Riiight, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn.

This is quite laughable . . . how many memories do you have from age 4? 4-5,6?  And those memories you have from age 4 make you so incredible positive that you were completely sexually aware? Not buying at all.

Edited February 8, 2017 by yjacket

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, yjacket said:

You knew at 4 what the act of sex was, what it meant?  Riiight, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn.

It's interesting you'd say that.  I had no idea what the "act" was.  But I had full awareness of the feelings, urges, the desires -- even to the point that (and I hope no one blushes easily at this) I reflexively wanted to perform thrusting motions.  And this was without knowing anything about the act.

I wanted to touch girls without knowing why.  Thankfully, I was told at a young age that it was inappropriate to do so.  So I refrained.  The desire was still there.

I knew I liked looking at certain parts of a mature female body.  I didn't know why.  But I simply liked it.

If you want to pick nits at my use of the word "COMPLETELY"... touche'.  You got me.  But don't throw out the entire testimony because of one word that you disagree with.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Guest

[yjacket]

Stages of development:

Stage of development Common behaviors Encouraging healthy development Infancy (Ages 0-2) y Curiosity about their body, including genitals y Touching their genitals, including masturbation, in public and in private y No inhibitions around nudity 

Early Childhood (Ages 2-5) y Occasional masturbation. This usually occurs as a soothing behavior rather than for sexual pleasure. It may occur publicly or privately. y Consensual and playful exploration with children of the same age. This could include “playing house” or “playing doctor.” y May ask questions about sexuality or reproduction, such as, “Where do babies come from?” y May show curiosity in regard to adult bodies (e.g., wanting to go to into the bathroom with parents, touching women’s breasts, etc.) y Continued lack of inhibition around nudity. May take-off their diaper or clothes off y Uses slang terms for body parts and bodily functions Provide basic information about reproduction (e.g., babies grow in the uterus of a woman) y Encourage a basic understanding of privacy and when things are appropriate and inappropriate y Explain the difference between wanted and unwanted touch. For example, a hug that is welcome and positive versus one that is unwelcome and uncomfortable. y Teach children about boundaries. Let children know that their body belongs to them and that they can say no to unwanted touch.

 

You were completely sexually aware?  I don't think so. Yes sexual development is a long process and parents are there to help train children in proper sexual behavior, thinking, etc.  It is as with anything else.  

My point is that a child at age 7 doesn't have the framework possible or mental capacity to understand what is meant when he says "I'm homosexual" . . .all he thinks is yeah I like boys or something else, or if he says "I want to be a girl", the child has no real understanding of what that actually means.

I'm not saying children are asexual-just that they have no concept, until much older of what "homosexuality" behavior really means or what it really means to be "transgender"

[yjacket]

14 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I wanted to touch girls without knowing why.  Thankfully, I was told at a young age that it was inappropriate to do so.  So I refrained.  The desire was still there.

Exactly, you were trained.  Yes, a child has feelings of anger and out of anger they hit someone-so parents train them that it is unacceptable behavior.  So what if the child has feelings of anger-he is still not to hit.  So what if a child has feelings of attraction (whatever that means to a child at that age), but you train them that it is unacceptable behavior.

That is my point, you didn't have a concept of what you were doing (you pretty much admit it), you were a child.  And if you didn't understand what you were doing or why, then you weren't completely sexually aware.  Why does one child make thrusting motions, another child hits, another boy likes to dress up like girls-it doesn't matter. The child has no concept of what they are really doing.  That is why parents are there to train the child in the way they should live their life. 

That is my point. To subscribe seriousness to a child that at age 7 says "I should be a girl" is foolishness.

The point of life is to learn how to dominate our bodies and our spirits to bring them closer to God.  I have never had feelings of attraction to same-sex; I'm sure that those who do have those feelings go through a struggle. But I do struggle with feelings of attraction to the female body, and I'm married; but my feelings of attraction to the female body are irrelevant-my task is to dominate those feelings and to only have those feelings for my wife.  It is possible to do so and over time the mind can be trained, along with feelings to only have those thoughts and feelings for my wife.

When you train you body to not act out certain behaviors, eventually domination of feelings and the spirit come.

Edited February 8, 2017 by yjacket

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Stages of development:

Citation?

Stage of development Common behaviors Encouraging healthy development Infancy (Ages 0-2) y Curiosity about their body, including genitals y Touching their genitals, including masturbation, in public and in private y No inhibitions around nudity 

I'd say that is congruent with my memories.

Early Childhood (Ages 2-5) y Occasional masturbation. This usually occurs as a soothing behavior rather than for sexual pleasure. It may occur publicly or privately. y Consensual and playful exploration with children of the same age. This could include “playing house” or “playing doctor.” y May ask questions about sexuality or reproduction, such as, “Where do babies come from?” y May show curiosity in regard to adult bodies (e.g., wanting to go to into the bathroom with parents, touching women’s breasts, etc.) y Continued lack of inhibition around nudity. May take-off their diaper or clothes off y Uses slang terms for body parts and bodily functions Provide basic information about reproduction (e.g., babies grow in the uterus of a woman) y Encourage a basic understanding of privacy and when things are appropriate and inappropriate y Explain the difference between wanted and unwanted touch. For example, a hug that is welcome and positive versus one that is unwelcome and uncomfortable. y Teach children about boundaries. Let children know that their body belongs to them and that they can say no to unwanted touch.

This is about 30% accurate when describing me at that age.  The primary thing was that I felt "shame" of nudity as young as 3 years old.  And it wasn't because anyone told me about this.  I just felt it.

You were completely sexually aware?  I don't think so. Yes sexual development is a long process and parents are there to help train children in proper sexual behavior, thinking, etc.  It is as with anything else.  

I think you may be having trouble with the wording I chose.  And you're magnifying it into things that are simply wrong.  I'm going to clarify yet again below.

My point is that a child at age 7 doesn't have the framework possible or mental capacity to understand what is meant when he says "I'm homosexual" . . .all he thinks is yeah I like boys or something else, or if he says "I want to be a girl", the child has no real understanding of what that actually means.

I'm not saying children are asexual-just that they have no concept, until much older of what "homosexuality" behavior really means or what it really means to be "transgender"

I'll disagree yet again.  Certainly at 7 years old, I understood what a homosexual was.  And so did many of my peers.  And we all knew it was "abnormal".  We didn't have the "depth" to know how serious it was or anything like that.  And if that is what you're referring to, then we've got to communicate better.  But I'd say haven't learned anything more about "being gay" since that time -- other than some meaningless statistics and a bunch of political double speak.

When I said I was "completely sexually aware" I wasn't saying that I knew that such actions would produce a baby in a mature couple.  That happened at 6 or 7.  And you're correct, I didn't have the training to know right and wrong at that stage because it was pure animal instinct.  But you know what?  Animals have sex.  They produce babies.  Do you think they are "sexually aware"?  By my definition, they are.  By yours, apparently not.

What I was objecting to was that your statements seemed to be saying,"Children have no sexual urges or feelings or biological tendencies of any sexual nature."  That is simply incorrect.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Guest

[yjacket]

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

When I said I was "completely sexually aware" I wasn't saying that I knew that such actions would produce a baby in a mature couple.  That happened at 6 or 7.  And you're correct, I didn't have the training to know right and wrong at that stage because it was pure animal instinct.  But you know what?  Animals have sex.  They produce babies.  Do you think they are "sexually aware"?  By my definition, they are.  By yours, apparently not.

 

And so what about animals? We are not beasts of the field- we are the offspring of God

"What I was objecting to was that your statements seemed to be saying,"Children have no sexual urges or feelings or biological tendencies of any sexual nature."  That is simply incorrect."

Understand and if you allow me to nitpick on "completely" then you can nitpick on this statement-which if I add "concept", i.e. "Children have no concept of sexual urges or feelings or biological tendencies of any sexual nature." 

So I will not nitpick on your statement if you allow me mine :-).  Good?

[Guest]

So, with this new understanding, what is it that you mean that Children do not understand about sex?

And I will add this.  

While it is true that at 4 years old, it was instinctive only.  But by 7 years old, I was taught what actually happens biologically.  I learned everything about sex that any average virgin would know about it (without getting into the highly technical biological aspects).  And I say this in light of our conversation to this point: I was HIGHLY sexually aware (does that meet with your approval?) in mind and emotion (if not physically or spiritually) about what sex was and why.  I was clear about where my feelings came from and what was motivating them.  

The only thing I was not aware of was that which I had not actually experienced -- the realities of the act itself.  And there were some misconceptions I had with that until I heard some explicit "locker room talk" in the boys' locker room in high school.

But it was clear I was heterosexual by 4 years old.  And I understood it on an intellectual and emotional level by 7 years old.

So, depending on what exactly you mean by what children do not understand or "get" or cannot do or know or... well, there it is.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Guest

[NightSG]

24 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But it was clear I was heterosexual by 4 years old.

Yeah, I think the first crush was when I was about 6.  Unfortunately, she turned out to be not nearly so heterosexual.

Shame, though; she's still darn cute.

Edited February 8, 2017 by NightSG

[Guest MormonGator]

20 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Yeah, I think the first crush was when I was about 6.  Unfortunately, she turned out to be not nearly so heterosexual.

Shame, though; she's still darn cute.

My first girlfriend has 4+ kids with several different fathers. Absolute train wreck. 

[NightSG]

Just now, MormonGator said:

My first girlfriend has 4+ kids with several different fathers. Absolute train wreck. 

My first ex fiance is the same, though she has since gotten things more together.  I still keep a bit of distance there, but honestly she's a lot less of a train wreck than she was about a year after we broke up.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, NightSG said:

My first ex fiance is the same, though she has since gotten things more together.  I still keep a bit of distance there, but honestly she's a lot less of a train wreck than she was about a year after we broke up.

I remember saying this to someone-that my first girlfriend had run into problems and that I'm glad I didn't end up with her. This person flipped-saying I was "anti-woman" and "cruel" for saying that. I'm still a little baffled by how someone would say that. I'm not taking pleasure in it. 

[yjacket]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

So, with this new understanding, what is it that you mean that Children do not understand about sex?

And I will add this.  

While it is true that at 4 years old, it was instinctive only.  But by 7 years old, I was taught what actually happens biologically.  

But it was clear I was heterosexual by 4 years old.  And I understood it on an intellectual and emotional level by 7 years old.

Really?  Nope, I quite frankly don't believe you (the bolded parted anyways).  Yes you were taught what happens biologically at age 7-okay fine like I said children are trained-you prove my point. You were taught it.  But no, I don't care how smart you think you were as a child you did not understand it at age 7.

There is a reason why God put puberty at the age He did-you are basically saying that God made a mistake.  If children at age 7 are able to emotionally and intellectually understand sex, then why do we have laws against it?

I'm not so sure why you are so set on trying to prove that you understood sex (emotionally and intellectually) as a 7 year old, which is clearly something you made up in your own mind that you were able to do so (first it was 4-I blew that out of the water-now you say 7-which is also false).

We don't baptize children until they are 8, but yet at age 7 they are capable of fully understanding sex?  Why are you so set on trying to prove this?  I'll tell you why, b/c otherwise it blows apart this evil ideology that sexual orientation is biological and that there is nothing one can do to change it.  You have convinced yourself that of course children at age 7 must be able to comprehend the full ramifications of sex otherwise this whole idea that people are just "born that way", i.e. homosexual- falls completely and utterly flat on it's face.

We don't baptize until 8, but a 7 year old can be fully sexually aware?  Play it again, Sam, play it again.   

And you are just wrong; if a child is taught the birds and bees at age 7-they certainly can repeat back what it is-but that is about it.  There is a reason why God made puberty at age 12-14 vs. age 7. I can easily teach my son 9 year old son about derivatives and the basics of calculus-he could even repeat it back to me.  Does he understand it? Heck no. It's called line upon line.

Edited February 9, 2017 by yjacket

[lostinwater]

11 hours ago, yjacket said:

Do you not read the scriptures?  

This is so off-base and part of the morally bankrupt society we currently live in.  "There is no sin, just people that need to be loved". The scriptures are absolutely full of stories of prophets condemning and calling people to repentance and the general reaction is that people stone the prophets. 

In today's society we don't physically stone the prophets, but we certainly stone them in our minds.  We think of Christ as this individual who was only about peace, love, etc. Yet how quickly do we forget Christ overturning the money-changers, cursing the fig tree, "I bring not peace, but a sword", his words to the Pharisees and Saduccees where brutal and harsh; He roundly condemned them.  How much do we forget that Christ didn't come to save people in their sins, but from their sins?

If we as a people cannot stand up and forcefully say (in line with what the scriptures and prophets have taught) that these types of behaviors are (no ifs and or buts) sin and will lead to destruction, then how can we be disciples of Christ? If we cannot say, that yes God loves you as His Child, but is deeply saddened by your choices to choose behavior that is not pleasing to Him and sinful, why call ourselves disciples?

No, these individuals who commit these gross iniquities need to understand two things #1) as a parent, God's love is all-encompassing and #2) He may love you more than you can fathom, but these actions are deeply sinful and that the individual who commits these acts draws themselves away from God and if they continue in that path they will never be able to abide in His presence-they have damned themselves.

These individuals don't need acceptance from me.  Why would I matter? Why am I so important that they need my acceptance for their behavior? No, what they are really trying to say is that they want acceptance from God for their behaviors and by normalizing it so that I or the collective society accepts their behavior as normal they can rationalize that their behavior is acceptable to God.  

The sad thing is that no matter how many people in this world they convince to "accept" them-this behavior never has been and never will be acceptable to God; we know this b/c there is not a recorded instance in God's word given to us through prophets where it has been. And as such, b/c it has never been and never will be acceptable to God-they will (as a collective group) keep pushing and pushing and pushing to force God to accept their behaviors.  

Unfortunately, they refuse to learn that: Wickedness never was happiness.

 

Thanks for the response.  I certainly respect your opinion.  Yes, I definitely do read the scriptures.  The New Testament Gospels mainly - there is something about the words of Jesus that calm and comfort me in a way that other scripture just doesn't.  I actually haven't found anything in there as yet that condemns transgender feelings as you have.  If you know of something, I'd like to hear it.  Heaven knows I don't know everything.  Please remember though, I don't see everything that comes out of the church leadership as scripture.  Judge me as you will, but I feel totally comfortable with my current belief structure.  If you'd like to know about the near death experience that precipitated my current beliefs, feel free to message me.  

But I would like to disagree with some assumptions you've made.  My friend - and actually quite a few transgender people - aren't demanding acceptance.  They aren't waving flags in parades, lobbying for transgender bathrooms, demanding people use a specific pronoun, or suing the Boy Scouts.  They are just quietly and humbly suffering with feelings that neither of us completely understand - totally willing to stuff those horrifically painful feelings way down deep to ensure that the other 99.8% of everyone else can keep their societal norms - that I agree are required.

I am not saying you would change your mind, but I do think it would be good to get to know a transgender person like my friend before you so roundly condemn their feelings.  I mean, I can see that you - though disagreeing with me so strongly - are not a bad person.  Not a sinful person.  Not someone whose rejection of feelings I agree with is an indication they are in willful rebellion against God.  Not filled with hate.  You are obviously a great and passionate person from whom I can learn a lot.  Perhaps you would feel the same way about someone like my friend if you got to know them.  I often find that in order to validate my own personal views, my mind wants to make character judgments about those I disagree with.  I mean, if the people who see things differently than I do aren't bad, then there might be some truth to what they say.  And sadly, I have a tendency to run from the cognitive dissonance this creates.

Just imagine though - perhaps you are wrong.  Perhaps in light of the fact that some spirits are born into bodies without arms, without legs, with two heads, and even bodies that spontaneously impregnate themselves.  Perhaps, just perhaps, there is also something resulting from the brokenness of mortality that affects the gender of a body - beyond what we can see between someone's legs.  If that is true - and I know that it is (more than welcome to disagree) - then these precious, patient, humble, tortured souls, whose spirit has always been, and will always be, a specific gender deserve more compassion, acceptance where societal constructs permit, and admiration than I could ever be capable of expressing.

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, yjacket said:

Really?  Nope, I quite frankly don't believe you (the bolded parted anyways).  

You just called me a liar so you could be secure in your own opinion.  I guess that ends the conversation.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Guest

[yjacket]

On 2/8/2017 at 10:05 PM, Carborendum said:

You just called me a liar so you could be secure in your own opinion.  I guess that ends the conversation.

For you to say that you know that at age 7 you understood the complexities of sexual relationship both intellectually and emotionally, is just wishful thinking. Memories are funny things- the only way we (and you) could really know that you knew is to interview your 7 year-old self.  But I imagine that you are at least past your early 20s, which means we can't.

The fascinating thing about the human experience is the lies and mis-remembering we tell ourselves-it's one of the reasons why we are instructed to keep a journal-to write down an accurate portrayal of how we felt during a certain experience.  I know that you honestly, truly believe this story about yourself-I just happen to believe it is an inaccurate story that you have told yourself-perhaps over many decades and it has become ingrained in you.  I don't think in the least bit you "lying" in the traditional sense of trying to deceive.

I would believe that what you have said is possible if the sexual and emotional development of children matched what you are saying . . .but it doesn't-not in the least bit.

You appear to have been raised in an environment that instructed you more fully in sexuality at a younger age than what is typically considered normal or healthy-that is fine and it probably heightened your awareness of this issue.  I have my own kids-they are very intelligent, I've seen very emotionally mature 7 year-olds, but a 7 year old is just not capable of what you are describing-much less a fully grown adult remembering accurately what occurred at age 7. 

[yjacket]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:24 PM, lostinwater said:

But I would like to disagree with some assumptions you've made.  My friend - and actually quite a few transgender people - aren't demanding acceptance.  They aren't waving flags in parades, lobbying for transgender bathrooms, demanding people use a specific pronoun, or suing the Boy Scouts.  They are just quietly and humbly suffering with feelings that neither of us completely understand - totally willing to stuff those horrifically painful feelings way down deep to ensure that the other 99.8% of everyone else can keep their societal norms - that I agree are required.

Please spare me the sob story-no, they aren't demanding acceptance-they just get everyone else to do their bidding-boycott Championship games, destroy moral institutions like the BSA.

I'm so sick of everyone else wanting me to "feel their pain".  How about my pain?  What about my pain for the loss of an organization that taught boys to be "morally straight", what about my pain at not wanting to see this issue shoved down my throat. What about my pain of wanting to teach and raise my children righteously but that in order to do so I must either fight back against such evil or withdraw completely from the world?

3 Nephi: 14-15

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Your comment above fits perfectly-they come dressed in a flag of truce-so tender and docile, just "quietly and humbly suffering" all the while destroying the very institutions that teach the moral fiber of society.  That is the definition of ravenous wolves.

[yjacket]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:24 PM, lostinwater said:

Just imagine though - perhaps you are wrong.  

And that is how the Devil takes hold.  Don't worry, those things that you were taught-that your forefathers taught going back generations-just imagine if they were (gasp) wrong.

-it is so fascinating from an intellectual perspective to actually see live, in real-time, the fulfillment of prophesy (good shall be called evil and evil shall be called good).

Just imagine lostinwater-there are men out there who just love children so, so, so much. And according to Carb, there are children out there who are just so incredibly sexually and emotionally mature at age 7.  Who are we to decide that these two star-crossed individuals shouldn't be able to come together? Why it's such an injustice.  There are men out there who suffer in silence, who humbly and patiently suffer because they love little children so very much-they don't wave flags, or go to parades, but they suffer just the same.

Who are we to deny those men who just love little children so much and those children who are sexually and emotionally aware, who are we to deny them from being together?

----

You don't believe it-bank on it.  It is coming. What is going to be the next acceptance battle after the trans is won?

God's 1st commandment to Adam and Eve was to multiply and replenish the earth, setting high importance of sexual relations.  Where does Satan attack 1st?  Always and everywhere the family and sexuality.  If he can destroy that, he lays waste to God's plan. 

And quickly we slide down to Sodom and Gomorrah.  It is going to get bad-real bad;worse than we can imagine-at least for those who follow God, have his Spirit, understand His law.  They will feel as if the world has turned upside down as if they are the only sane person in a town full of crazy people; and it will take such great fortitude and strength, of will, mind, body, spirit to resist and be a beacon of righteousness and morality in a world so incredibly decadent as it continues its putrid, rotten slide. 

[lostinwater]

2 hours ago, yjacket said:

And that is how the Devil takes hold.  Don't worry, those things that you were taught-that your forefathers taught going back generations-just imagine if they were (gasp) wrong.

-it is so fascinating from an intellectual perspective to actually see live, in real-time, the fulfillment of prophesy (good shall be called evil and evil shall be called good).

Just imagine lostinwater-there are men out there who just love children so, so, so much. And according to Carb, there are children out there who are just so incredibly sexually and emotionally mature at age 7.  Who are we to decide that these two star-crossed individuals shouldn't be able to come together? Why it's such an injustice.  There are men out there who suffer in silence, who humbly and patiently suffer because they love little children so very much-they don't wave flags, or go to parades, but they suffer just the same.

Who are we to deny those men who just love little children so much and those children who are sexually and emotionally aware, who are we to deny them from being together?

----

You don't believe it-bank on it.  It is coming. What is going to be the next acceptance battle after the trans is won?

God's 1st commandment to Adam and Eve was to multiply and replenish the earth, setting high importance of sexual relations.  Where does Satan attack 1st?  Always and everywhere the family and sexuality.  If he can destroy that, he lays waste to God's plan. 

And quickly we slide down to Sodom and Gomorrah.  It is going to get bad-real bad;worse than we can imagine-at least for those who follow God, have his Spirit, understand His law.  They will feel as if the world has turned upside down as if they are the only sane person in a town full of crazy people; and it will take such great fortitude and strength, of will, mind, body, spirit to resist and be a beacon of righteousness and morality in a world so incredibly decadent as it continues its putrid, rotten slide. 

Thank-you.  All good points.  

I'm not fighting a battle with you.  I mean, you can continue to think that of course - but I'm really not your enemy.  My friend is not demanding anything - though certainly they hope that people will treat them with respect, kindness, and without condemnation.  Yet for some reason, you've identified us as being a domino in the series of events that leads to rampant child incest.  You are a Mormon man who disagrees with me - but I don't view your disagreement as proof that you are harboring a desire for another Mountain Meadows Massacre against transgender people.  That would be silly.

To be honest, I guess I see lots of bad coming from these kind of sentiments (ie your belief about X differs from mine, therefore you must be part of satan's plan to introduce statutory rape as a societal norm).  Though definitely, you don't have to go far back into history to see what satan can do with one evil leader when people become polarized in this way against one another.  

For the record, I'm pretty sure that is not what Carb was saying at all, but I'll leave that to both of you to hash out.

Edited February 11, 2017 by lostinwater

[Just_A_Guy]

3 hours ago, yjacket said:

I'm so sick of everyone else wanting me to "feel their pain".  How about my pain? 

. . . said no Jesus, ever.

No one's denying the militancy or spiritual danger posed by impenitent sinners of every stripe.  But the penitent, who are the focus of this thread--we can do more than just stand there yelling "No!  You pervert!  Everyone hide your kids, 'cause here comes the perv!!!"  

What if Satan actually *wants* us to develop such mentalities?  What if he knows that in 2017, true charity and compassion and the very best in mental health advances over the last century have the power to save (and maybe even heal while yet in this life) the vast majority of LGBT Mormons who sincerely wish to remain celibate?  What if, in anticipation of this, he spent the last fifty years having his minions in entertainment and politics and academia advancing such patently fraudulent versions of compassion and psychology, that our "spidey senses" immediately trigger and we reject the Spirit's whisperings whenever it tries to gently remind us that our brethren are desperately in need of the real thing?

[Mike]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

. . . said no Jesus, ever.

No one's denying the militancy or spiritual danger posed by impenitent sinners of every stripe.  But the penitent, who are the focus of this thread--we can do more than just stand there yelling "No!  You pervert!  Everyone hide your kids, 'cause here comes the perv!!!"  

What if Satan actually *wants* us to develop such mentalities?  What if he knows that in 2017, true charity and compassion and the very best in mental health advances over the last century have the power to save (and maybe even heal while yet in this life) the vast majority of LGBT Mormons who sincerely wish to remain celibate?  What if, in anticipation of this, he spent the last fifty years having his minions in entertainment and politics and academia advancing such patently fraudulent versions of compassion and psychology, that our "spidey senses" immediately trigger and we reject the Spirit's whisperings whenever it tries to gently remind us that our brethren are desperately in need of the real thing?

Well said. Keep going. In addition to avoiding yelling "pervert" what other positive actions, I wonder, can we all consider?