Hypnosis

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

 I suspect one could erroneously use the word hypnotized when describing the way we execute routine tasks without the same degree of concentration we use when first learning the tasks--driving the same route home every day, opening a spreadsheet, or placing a child into the bathtub. I think many people have a (not always very useful) tendency to compare things they don't understand...

This idea intrigues me. So do you mean a form of dissociation? Like when you drive to work and then camt remember how you got there, because you were thinking about something else the whole time....basically on autopilot. Daydreaming is another exame of every day dissociation. 

Dissociation can have more "extreme" forms, of course.  Your comment makes me wonder if hypnosis IS a mild form of dissociation. Hmmm, a topic to bring up in therapy and perhaps do a little research on.

By the way, I think we do try to compare things we don't understand to things we do. That's how the brain works---looking for patterns. It's not always useful, in fact I think this is part the issue with PTSD  (comparing an innocent daily occurrence to a traumatic event, and then inacting fight, flight or freeze.) But it can be very useful, even protective sometimes which is why our brains do it.

Edited April 12, 2017 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

in fact I think this is part the issue with PTSD  (comparing an innocent daily occurrence to a traumatic event, and then inacting fight, flight or freeze.) 

That is an interesting description.  I've never considered it PTSD, but that is exactly the trigger for my Tourettes.  A minor trauma is magnified in my conscious memory and causes me to have a verbal or physical outburst.  I wouldn't call it PTSD, but it certainly has those traits.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Guest

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

That is an interesting description.  I've never considered it PTSD, but that is exactly the trigger for my Tourettes.  A minor trauma is magnified in my conscious memory and causes me to have a verbal or physical outburst.  I wouldn't call it PTSD, but it certainly has those traits.

Thanks Carb, for me that confirms my understanding of how our brains work.  For example, we often talk about the "spectrum" of autism.  But other things have a spectrum too...dissociation, for example, can range from simple daydreaming on one end to Dissociative Identity Disorder on the other end.  I think we could imagine a spectrum with what you are describing on one side (certainly not the most minor, but closer to that end of the scale) and PTSD on the other side of the scale.  They differ in severity, but are certainly related.  

[Mike]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

@Mike,

So, why the interest?

I am confident you know what it's like to become interested in any given topic in terms of curiosity or in terms of something that stimulated your curiosity. In the case of  hypnosis  I recently met someone who claims to have the skills to hypnotize, and make claims about what hypnosis can accomplish. As we talked we came to the issue of overcoming phobias via the hypnotist accessing one's subconscience and identifying let's say an event which caused a phobia where before there was none.

I pondered two phobias: one of my own, and one of a close friend. And I tried to imagine how hypnosis would work.  Like you, I have observed people on stage and my skepticism makes me wonder whether they were acting. So I thought I would seek out anyone I can who claims to have been hypnotized by a professional such as a doctor; and inquire into individual testimonials in terms of what the hypnotist did, what sensations the individual felt, etc. with the idea that I might enlighten myself or at least identify common testimonies. This would be different for me than googling the topic--the hope being I could ask my own questions.

 

[Mike]

15 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

This idea intrigues me. So do you mean a form of dissociation? Like when you drive to work and then camt remember how you got there, because you were thinking about something else the whole time....basically on autopilot. Daydreaming is another exame of every day dissociation. 

Dissociation can have more "extreme" forms, of course.  Your comment makes me wonder if hypnosis IS a mild form of dissociation. Hmmm, a topic to bring up in therapy and perhaps do a little research on.

By the way, I think we do try to compare things we don't understand to things we do. That's how the brain works---looking for patterns. It's not always useful, in fact I think this is part the issue with PTSD  (comparing an innocent daily occurrence to a traumatic event, and then inacting fight, flight or freeze.) But it can be very useful, even protective sometimes which is why our brains do it.

Right. And I don't want you to misconstrue and conclude that I am critical or that I disbelieve in the propriety of making comparisons as you explained.

I was making reference to the type of comparison that I think is less valid where one doesn't truly understand either thing that's being compared. For example, it's my opinion that a comparison between a state of being hypnotized and watching television is not a valid comparison.  Maybe I'm wrong.  

Edited April 13, 2017 by Mike

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

15 minutes ago, Mike said:

For example, it's my opinion that a comparison between a state of being hypnotized and watching television is not a valid comparison.  Maybe I'm wrong.  

No.problem. I totally agree.

[wenglund]

I used to think I couldn't be hypnotized until I discovered that I had frequently experienced everyday forms of hypnosis--such as when I become immersed in a novel or in a TV program or when driving or walking or when daydreaming or combinations of the above. http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/extrasensory-perceptions/hypnosis1.htm

There have been times when I have walked or driven great distances, gone into daydream mode, and "woke up" when I arrived at my destination, though I was completely unconscious of how I got there.  Scary, I know. But there it is.

And, In the course of enhancing my artistic skills, I have found myself going into a "zone" where my creative capabilities become surprising even to me. As I understand it, this is a form of self-hypnosis.

Not all hypnosis is at the hand of goateed charlatans

Thanks, -Wade Englund-.

Edited April 18, 2017 by wenglund

[wenglund]

On 4/12/2017 at 4:53 PM, Mike said:

For example, it's my opinion that a comparison between a state of being hypnotized and watching television is not a valid comparison.  Maybe I'm wrong.  

As intimated in my post above, current science suggests otherwise: http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/extrasensory-perceptions/hypnosis.htm

Perhaps the disagreement may be a function of your viewing hypnosis in a binary way rather than as a spectrum?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Mike]

@wenglund I see what you're saying. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Mike

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, Mike said:

@wenglund I see what you're saying. 

I wish I could see what people were saying, like in comic books. That way, I wouldn't have to keep saying, "Excuse me?"

[Mike]

4 minutes ago, Vort said:

I wish I could see what people were saying, like in comic books. That way, I wouldn't have to keep saying, "Excuse me?"

Sometimes it's helpful. Other times, it doesn't make any difference--I find myself having to re-read multiple times and I still feel compelled to say, "Excuse me?"

[NightSG]

On 4/11/2017 at 4:20 PM, zil said:

I think you're unlikely to get a lot of responses due to this policy:

There's a huge range between "treatment of diseases or mental disorders" and "demonstration or entertainment."

What about breaking a bad habit?  Creating a good habit?  

The "policy" is about as vague as saying "it's OK to kill someone in defense of a dozen quadriplegic nuns, but not because you're bored."

Besides, how many Molly Mormons are hawking the latest miracle diet plan and/or random quackery all over Facebook, in spite of "21.3.6 Medical and Health Practices - Members should not use medical or health practices that are ethically or legally questionable?"

[Mike]

@Vort But you know, your comment brings up another thought for me about what we (you or me, for example) "see" in our minds' eyes in various situations such as reading someone's remarks on a forum, listening to music, solving a math problem in our heads, listening to music, etc. 

[Mike]

@wenglund Actually before you posted, I did wonder to myself whether my own experiences "day-dreaming", "zoning out", etc. are anything like being hypnotized. 

[anatess2]

@Mike, here's my experience with it.

So, there was this hypnotist that went to the Comedy Club in town.   My inner circle of friends at that time decided to check it out on impulse but one of us didn't want to go so we had to strong-arm him to come.  So, we got to the Comedy Club and the hypnotist wanted volunteers so 3 of us (me, the guy who didn't want to go, and another of our friends) went up to the stage.  The hypnotist only kept 10 on stage so one of my friends had to go back down.  The hypnotist then gave us instructions to follow so we can be hypnotized - we were to relax while he counted down from 10 to 1... At count 6 I was asked to go down.  So, there was only one of my friends left up on the stage - the guy who didn't want to go in the first place.  He was one of 6 who was left up on stage for the rest of the night.  And yeah, they did a whole bunch of stuff for the hypnotist.  It was hilarious. 

There was a time when the hypnotist asked them, you're drinking your first glass of wine... 2nd glass of wine, etc.. until they acted drunk.  One of them didn't act drunk, she was just smiling and clapping.  So, the hypnotist says, this woman has never gotten drunk before, so she's the designated driver.  But then the hypnotist told the guys they were pregnant and then they were having a baby... and they all freaked out, and they've never had a baby before, obviously...

Anyway, at the end of the show, we asked our friend if he remembers anything.  And he said he doesn't know, he felt like he just woke up from a good night's sleep.  So, we asked him, do you remember having a baby?  And he said, oh, that was not a dream?  So yeah, he remembered some of the things that happened as if it was a dream but he mainly felt the same as if he slept for a long time.  And he felt very refreshed.

Anyway, so the hypnotist was selling these CD's to use hypnosis on certain things - like if you have trouble sleeping he has a CD to help you sleep a restful night.  So, I bought that CD especially since it seemed to work on my friend.  And I tried to do it at home.  I didn't have much hope of it working because the hypnotist kicked me off the stage... but I thought I'd give it a shot.  So, the same thing - countdown with some instructions... relax your toes, 10... relax your calves, 9... etc. When the count hit 0 I went on sleep paralysis.  Now, I have lots of experience with sleep paralysis - this is when my brain wakes up but my body is still asleep.  But I've never experienced sleep paralysis when I'm going from being awake to being asleep!  This was the one and only time that happened.  So, yeah, right at the count of 0, my body fell asleep but my brain was still awake which is an awful feeling - I hate sleep paralysis, it's like somebody is sitting on me and I can't move and I can't breathe!  Normally, though, when I encounter sleep paralysis, I just go back to sleep - shut my brain down, basically - and I would just wake up normally.  So, when this happened to me during the hypnosis CD, I went ahead and did the same thing - shut my brain down so I'd sleep.  I woke up normally.  No special feeling of it being a more restful night than usual... so, besides the short scare of the sleep paralysis, I didn't get anything out of it, so I never used the CD ever again.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by anatess2

[Mike]

@anatess2 Interesting story. I've never experienced anything like you described. I would like to. 

[wenglund]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I wish I could see what people were saying, like in comic books. That way, I wouldn't have to keep saying, "Excuse me?"

Same here (or hear).   I have a congenital hearing defect and auditory processing disability, so Closed Captions have enriched my life. I don't use hearing aids for a variety of reasons, but more particularly  because it isn't always a volume issue. More often it is a clarity or noise interference thing. Making the sound louder often causes more irritation than anything else.

But, like with Mike, even when I clearly hear or see what a person is saying, it prompts an "Ecuse me?" or "Say what?". Maybe I also fall somewhere on the autism spectrum.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 18, 2017 by wenglund

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, wenglund said:

I don't use hearing aids for a variety of reasons, but more particularly  because it isn't always a volume issue. More often it is a clarity or noise interference thing. Making the sound louder often causes more irritation than anything else.

That sounds very similar to what I experience.  As I understand it, most people eventually learn to screen out sounds and focus on a particular sound just as we can focus our eyes on a particular item to be seen.  I don't seem to have that ability.

If there is noise, it is difficult for me to hear anything above another.  It's just a garbled mess.  I can hear tones just fine.  So music comes through.  But speech is another matter altogether.  I am completely aware that sound is coming out of a person's mouth.  But it doesn't matter if that person speaks loudly.  I still have difficulty making out the phonetics.

[mrmarklin]

On 4/11/2017 at 9:44 AM, Mike said:

If you've been hypnotized would you describe it to me?

There is no such thing. 

[Guest]

On 4/18/2017 at 2:44 PM, anatess2 said:

So yeah, he remembered some of the things that happened as if it was a dream but he mainly felt the same as if he slept for a long time.  And he felt very refreshed.

Well, this puts another spin on it.  People dream in the first person or the third person.  I wonder if that has something to do with susceptibility to hypnosis.

Most of my dreams are in third person.  So, I'm constantly observing and questioning, even in my dreams.  When I am an active participant it's like I'm a fly on the wall and someone finally notices that I'm actually a person and "calls me into the activity".  When I do, I find myself doing what I'd normally do in real life.  When some weird things happen (that only happen in dreams or a whacked out movie) then I'm constantly thinking "how on earth?"

Once in a while I understand these "impossible" situations as the tell-tale signs of a dream, and I begin lucid dreaming.  Those are really fun.

So, I'm wondering if those who dream in the third person a lot will not be easily hypnotized.  I further wonder if those who can lucid dream are also resistant to hypnosis.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Guest

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Well, this puts another spin on it.  People dream in the first person or the third person.  I wonder if that has something to do with susceptibility to hypnosis.

Most of my dreams are in third person.  So, I'm constantly observing and questioning, even in my dreams.  When I am an active participant it's like I'm a fly on the wall and someone finally notices that I'm actually a person and "calls me into the activity".  When I do, I find myself doing what I'd normally do in real life.  When some weird things happen (that only happen in dreams or a whacked out movie) then I'm constantly thinking "how on earth?"

Once in a while I understand these "impossible" situations as the tell-tale signs of a dream, and I begin lucid dreaming.  Those are really fun.

So, I'm wondering if those who dream in the third person a lot will not be easily hypnotized.  I further wonder if those who can lucid dream are also resistant to hypnosis.

I dream first person.   I didn't get hypnotized when I was on stage.  But, I did go into sleep paralysis when I did the CD.  Not quite sure what to make of it.

Edited April 20, 2017 by anatess2

[person0]

6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I dream first person.   I didn't get hypnotized when I was on stage.  But, I did go into sleep paralysis when I did the CD.  Not quite sure what to make of it.

I hate experiencing sleep paralysis, it happens to me about twice a year just in my normal sleep routine.  I am asleep, yet partially awake/aware of my surroundings, but I can't move at all.  Even my thoughts are slow and everything moves in slow motion, it's a crazy experience, and usually ruins my whole day because it makes me feel like I didn't get enough sleep and it feels like it lasts for hours even if/when it only lasts a few minutes.    Anyway, just a little rant there.  For anyone who wants to know more, here is a link to webMD on sleep paralysis.  Hope no one else has to deal with this.  

[anatess2]

4 minutes ago, person0 said:

I hate experiencing sleep paralysis, it happens to me about twice a year just in my normal sleep routine.  I am asleep, yet partially awake/aware of my surroundings, but I can't move at all.  Even my thoughts are slow and everything moves in slow motion, it's a crazy experience, and usually ruins my whole day because it makes me feel like I didn't get enough sleep and it feels like it lasts for hours even if/when it only lasts a few minutes.    Anyway, just a little rant there.  For anyone who wants to know more, here is a link to webMD on sleep paralysis.  Hope no one else has to deal with this.  

It runs in my family.  My great grandfather got it, my dad got it, my brother gets it, I get it, my son gets it...  It happened a lot more often when I was younger - like there was a period in my teen years when I got it probably every 3 days or so.  But now in my middle age years it's become a rare occurrence.

[NightSG]

On 4/18/2017 at 2:44 PM, anatess2 said:

So, yeah, right at the count of 0, my body fell asleep but my brain was still awake which is an awful feeling - I hate sleep paralysis, it's like somebody is sitting on me and I can't move and I can't breathe!

Bad hypnosis; one of the first suggestions in a recorded script should be along the lines of "if there is any sort of significant discomfort or indication of a situation that needs your attention, you will awaken fully and immediately."  Hypnotists who do stage work primarily seem to forget that bit, (since the hypnotist isn't present when you're using the recordings, and can't wake you up if the smoke detector goes off or the baby cries, for example) but legitimate hypnotherapists (a rare few of whom also have a stage routine for publicity) have it in every script.

[NightSG]

57 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I dream first person.   I didn't get hypnotized when I was on stage.  But, I did go into sleep paralysis when I did the CD.  Not quite sure what to make of it.

Likely the induction should have been gentler and slower.  A good therapist working with you in person should be able to tailor the induction and deepening to get you past that, and then either record sessions for you or recommend existing ones that match your needs.  Unfortunately, hypnotherapy can be similar to any other treatment; there may be an OTC dose that works well for ~80% of people, but the remaining 20% need a custom prescription.

Of course, the difficulty in live hypnosis is that you can't listen to the entire session beforehand to know exactly what's being said, so if you have anxiety about the process or person, that may be an issue.  The best solution is simply finding someone you can trust to do at least the first exploratory session.