Uchtdorf says don't pray for this

[Sunday21]

Dear Bros & Sis's,

A number of people have told me that in a general conference talk Bro Uchtdorf said that we should not pray that less active family members return to the lds faith. I don't recall this. I tend to read most of the conference talks rather than listen so perhaps, this detail was in the audio but not written version? Firstly, do you feel that this occurred? If so, do you recall the date of the conference and which session? Many thanks!

Edited April 29, 2017 by Sunday21

[Sunday21]

I think that this may be the talk to which people refer

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/fourth-floor-last-door?lang=eng

i do not think that Bro U. Is saying don't pray for less active. When I was inactive, I felt God reaching out to me. If God can reach out to me, very frequently, in many ways, why should we not add our voices to the pleading?

[Sunday21]

Reading this talk again, I really don't think Bro U. Is saying don't pray for the less active. He does say that the Lord will not violate someone's free agency. He does say that if the Lord feels that a certain situation is for the best all the whining in the world won't change it...but I still feel that praying for the less active is a good thing.

[a mustard seed]

2 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I think that this may be the talk to which people refer

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/fourth-floor-last-door?lang=eng

i do not think that Bro U. Is saying don't pray for less active. When I was inactive, I felt God reaching out to me. If God can reach out to me, very frequently, in many ways, why should we not add our voices to the pleading?

Same. There was something very direct about His hand in my life and the order, timing of promptings that I believe my grandparents when they say they'd been praying for me. Maybe it was what God always intended for me right at that time, HIS time. But how do blessings come if not asked for by the righteous and faithful? And what could be a more righteous desire than to ask for His other children to find their way back to Him? I'm not asking Him to force anybody. In fact my expectation is low because no matter what He does, people still have their agency. But I can ask my Heavenly Father for help in this thing that I really want. 

[Sunday21]

@mustardseed! Agreed! I had a friend who told me that she and her family prayed for me often. I feel that this helped.

Side note: Not that a little opposition affects a bulldozer like myself but: Some lds people were dramatically less than helpful when I returned to church.

One women told me. ' it won't make your life better'. Wrong.

One guy drew a scary picture of the bishop holding some type of Puritanical court to make me confront my sins. What a load of nonsense. I went to the bishop to confess old sins before my endowments and he could have been less interested. 'Big deal! You were inactive!' Excellent response in my view.

Also met a priesthood holder, who said, 'You're back? You've got to be kidding me! You of all people.' What a git. I just said, 'You were right. I was wrong.' And walked away. 

Every group of people contains some out and out dummies. 

[CV75]

43 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Reading this talk again, I really don't think Bro U. Is saying don't pray for the less active. He does say that the Lord will not violate someone's free agency. He does say that if the Lord feels that a certain situation is for the best all the whining in the world won't change it...but I still feel that praying for the less active is a good thing.

"One woman prayed for years that her wayward daughter would return to the fold of Christ and felt discouraged that her prayers had seemingly gone unanswered. This was especially painful when she heard stories of other prodigal children who had repented of their ways.

"The problem was not a lack of prayers or a shortage of faith. She needed only to understand that, as painful as it might be for our Father in Heaven, He will not force anyone to choose the path of righteousness. God did not force His own children to follow Him in the premortal world. How much less will He force us now as we journey through this mortal life?

"God will invite, persuade. God will reach out tirelessly with love and inspiration and encouragement. But God will never compel—that would undermine His great plan for our eternal growth.

"The second thing faith cannot do is force our will upon God. We cannot force God to comply with our desires—no matter how right we think we are or how sincerely we pray. Consider the experience of Paul, who pleaded with the Lord multiple times for relief from a personal trial—what he called “a thorn in the flesh.” But that was not God’s will. Eventually, Paul realized that his trial was a blessing, and he thanked God for not answering his prayers the way he had hoped.^"

I like the bolded clarification! Who is it that teaches a person not to pray? (2 Nephi 32:8).

 

[Sunday21]

@CV75. Excellent points!

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Every group of people contains some out and out dummies. 

That's a good way to look at it.  I went inactive around age 19, and came back in 26.  If I sat down and thought about it, I could probably come up with close to 100 people who reacted in some way of which I was aware.  From my handwringing Grandma who worried about 'satan coming to get me', to the nice little old Swiss lady who wept tears of joy when I visited her years after coming back, to my LDS friends who just quietly invited me to stuff, to the one poor guy who got assigned to try to be my friend.  

I encountered some awkwardness, some cluelessness, some overlymelodramaticness, and some plain old dumbness.  But yeah, the vast majority of people's hearts were in the right places, just trying to let me know they were thinking about me and concerned about me.  

[zil]

4 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear Bros & Sis's,

A number of people have told me that in a general conference talk Bro Uchtdorf said that we should not pray that less active family members return to the lds faith. I don't recall this. I tend to read most of the conference talks rather than listen so perhaps, this detail was in the audio but not written version? Firstly, do you feel that this occurred? If so, do you recall the date of the conference and which session? Many thanks!

As you have concluded, someone didn't understand the talk or doctrine.  When you understand that God will not force a person to change, you don't pray asking him to do that.  Instead, you pray for God to show that person the way back; to bless them with the promptings, experiences, and influences (e.g. other people) which will lead them back or help them to feel and nourish a desire to return.  And then you do your best to be an answer to that prayer, if you can.

[Sunday21]

@zil. Right on!

[Fether]

@Sunday21 It may also be a misinterpretation in statements saying that we should not pray for something if we aren't going to act or do our part. I have heard that before.

[zil]

16 minutes ago, Fether said:

It may also be a misinterpretation in statements saying that we should not pray for something if we aren't going to act or do our part. I have heard that before.

I don't know that I've heard this, and if it's out there, I'd like to read it.  Personally, I don't think anyone would discourage us from one righteous action (prayer) even though we're not going to accomplish another righteous action (making a sincere effort to play a part in answering that prayer).  Because frankly, this is the definition of mortality and progress - we always ask for more than we have any right to, more than we ourselves can accomplish, and we are always farther along in one area than we are in some other area - failure in area X is not a good reason to discontinue area Y.

I am sure that we have been counseled to do everything we can to bring about the end for which we are praying, but this is not the same as being told: "Don't pray for it unless you're going to do everything you can to bring about the end for which we are praying." - I don't believe we would ever be taught: "Don't pray..."  Further, I think continually praying for "it" will help to motivate you to eventually do a little more, and then a little more, etc. toward working for "it".

[Fether]

8 minutes ago, zil said:

I don't know that I've heard this, and if it's out there, I'd like to read it.  Personally, I don't think anyone would discourage us from one righteous action (prayer) even though we're not going to accomplish another righteous action (making a sincere effort to play a part in answering that prayer).  Because frankly, this is the definition of mortality and progress - we always ask for more than we have any right to, more than we ourselves can accomplish, and we are always farther along in one area than we are in some other area - failure in area X is not a good reason to discontinue area Y.

I am sure that we have been counseled to do everything we can to bring about the end for which we are praying, but this is not the same as being told: "Don't pray for it unless you're going to do everything you can to bring about the end for which we are praying." - I don't believe we would ever be taught: "Don't pray..."  Further, I think continually praying for "it" will help to motivate you to eventually do a little more, and then a little more, etc. toward working for "it".

I mean like praying "bless my less active friend that someone will invite them to church" and you not doing anything about it yourself.

this is also advice given to my mission by Elder Christofferson

also found in James 2:14-26

Edited April 29, 2017 by Fether

[zil]

1 minute ago, Fether said:

I mean like praying "bless my less active friend that someone will invite them to church" and you not doing anything about it yourself.

this is also advice given to my mission by Elder Christofferson

I agree it's hypocritical.  I agree we're told "if you're gonna pray for it, also do something about it".  But I do NOT believe the inverse is ever instructed or would be, nor do I believe it is saying the same thing.

[Guest]

When my brother left the church, he said something along the lines of us (his family) having no business praying that he will come back. I love him as he is, I respect his agency, I show him respect and love wherever I can... but frankly he has no business telling me what I can pray for. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Eowyn

[Sunday21]

@Eowyn. Very nicely put!

[Fether]

34 minutes ago, zil said:

I agree it's hypocritical.  I agree we're told "if you're gonna pray for it, also do something about it".  But I do NOT believe the inverse is ever instructed or would be, nor do I believe it is saying the same thing.

If it's hypocritical... why do it?

[Sunday21]

4 minutes ago, Fether said:

If it's hypocritical... why do it?

Sometimes prayer can be a first step! You pray for something, then you feel guilty then you do something about it!

[zil]

22 minutes ago, Fether said:

If it's hypocritical... why do it?

See President Uchtdorf's talk about how in one way or another, we're all hypocrites - if we stop aspiring for more than we do, we will stop progressing.  See also @Sunday21's answer.  Mostly, I just don't believe we would ever hear an apostle telling us not to pray.

[Fether]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Sometimes prayer can be a first step! You pray for something, then you feel guilty then you do something about it!

Oh I see that! Definetly done this before x)

[Mormonheart]

Some of my relatives and close friends, are no longer in the church, or no longer active in it. I pray for them, because I still have hope in me that one day God will soften their hearts, and they realize their mistake. Many stay away because of the members. Because of quarreling with them, because of envy and disgrace, because of ...
One of my former bishops once said that, despite the members, he remains in the church because he has a testimony of God that this is the Church of Jesus Christ. There is nothing to add.

[Sunday21]

9 hours ago, Mormonheart said:

Some of my relatives and close friends, are no longer in the church, or no longer active in it. I pray for them, because I still have hope in me that one day God will soften their hearts, and they realize their mistake. Many stay away because of the members. Because of quarreling with them, because of envy and disgrace, because of ...
One of my former bishops once said that, despite the members, he remains in the church because he has a testimony of God that this is the Church of Jesus Christ. There is nothing to add.

Lovely! Well said!

[Blackmarch]

On 4/29/2017 at 6:14 AM, Sunday21 said:

Dear Bros & Sis's,

A number of people have told me that in a general conference talk Bro Uchtdorf said that we should not pray that less active family members return to the lds faith. I don't recall this. I tend to read most of the conference talks rather than listen so perhaps, this detail was in the audio but not written version? Firstly, do you feel that this occurred? If so, do you recall the date of the conference and which session? Many thanks!

my guess is that it is a misunderstanding of some point. probably of what to pray for rather than praying at all... I don't ever recall any leader saying not to pray for any one person or persons ever.