Too Many Worries

[BeccaKirstyn]

I'm going in to round 2 of applying to doctoral programs, and as I work more within my field at the masters level I'm learning more of the interaction and socialization that these programs involve. To explain.....these types of programs take in an incoming class that is called a "cohort" and these students usually take all the same classes together and are with each other for long hours of the day. This tight knit group mentality is very well known within the programs I am looking at so if you are interviewed, your ability to "fit in" and "match" with the others interviewing, and the current students, is taken into account (alongside your academics and professional accomplishments--this obviously taking more precedent but the social aspect is still very important). 

As someone who is a very introverted, homebody person, this kind of socialization takes a lot of effort and energy on my part. Many of these groups get together on weekends or weeknights for happy hour to relax and not think about school, and it's really important to build those relationships with them because you will be with these people for the next 5-6 years. And if it's a new area for you, and you don't know anyone out there, it's even more important because those relationships are the majority of your day and the start of your "friendship" bubble in that new area. So it's important to get along with them and find a sort of camaraderie.  

(I feel like I'm just putting all my thoughts into words and sentences but it's just a big mess so bear with me...) As a mormon, and an introvert, that kind of group socialization can be a little difficult. I usually find it easier to connect with 1 person, who usually is LDS as well, instead of hanging out in big groups that go out to drink and I'm the one person who isn't drinking to "relieve the stress of grad school". But I know that it's so important to be apart of that social group in those 5-6 years. You can't really do those programs by yourself. I think this is just me having another reason to freak out and wonder if I want to commit 5-6 years of my life in a PhD program, especially when I'd rather be married and building that type of life, and starting that kind of program feels like it would make that even more difficult (time consuming, stressful, doesn't allow for me to move, definitely wouldn't be ideal to start a family while in that program, etc.). But what I want to do with my career really requires a PhD, so I just feel like I'm in this big loop of "what do I do?".  I also actually have to be accepted into a program, which is a whole other thing to stress about since it is incredibly competitive. So I guess I can have these "crisis" moments when I actually have the possibility of being in a program, but these thoughts still lurk my mind. 

I think I just needed to write out my thoughts and worries...Because what else do you do at night besides think/worry about the things that you can't change or fix right at this moment? I know I need to just put this all at the Lord's feet and take it off my shoulders but I'm such a "solver" when it comes to these kinds of things. I just want to work it all out in my head. Bleh.

Any sound/reassuring words of advice are welcome. Or feel free to just read and think to yourself, "glad I didn't choose a career that requires that much schooling!", cause I wouldn't blame you. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by BeccaKirstyn

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

You might find this helpful.   
 

 

[Sunday21]

Yes. I have also done a phd. You are right.  And much much worse.

Most phd programs exist to provide publishing assistance for professors. Some would say slaves

Is there a job at the end of this phd? If not, my advice would be don't do this. Study your subject as a hobby instead.

if you think that there is a job at the end, then make sure that your choice of subject matter will get you a job. I say this as someone who knows many who made the wrong decision.

university professors won the lottery. They got a job. Many with PhDs just get by economically or are in poverty or are lab slaves. 

unless you are independently wealthy, you could be about to really mess up your economic future. 

many if not most phd experiences are horrible. 

 

[askandanswer]

56 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Yes. I have also done a phd. You are right.  And much much worse.

Most phd programs exist to provide publishing assistance for professors. Some would say slaves

Is there a job at the end of this phd? If not, my advice would be don't do this. Study your subject as a hobby instead.

if you think that there is a job at the end, then make sure that your choice of subject matter will get you a job. I say this as someone who knows many who made the wrong decision.

university professors won the lottery. They got a job. Many with PhDs just get by economically or are in poverty or are lab slaves. 

unless you are independently wealthy, you could be about to really mess up your economic future. 

many if not most phd experiences are horrible. 

 

Lol, I think the OP was asking for "Any sound/reassuring words of advice are welcome.".

[my two cents]

First off, it's admirable that you have the fortitude to take on such an endeavor. About your concerns - I doubt you'll be the only introvert in the group and as far as going out for drinks, how about you influencing them for the better and come up with a list of other options?  

Now, I'm sorry if this bursts your bubble but I must say that not all advanced degrees are worth it and they're not what they're cracked up to be. I have a relative who always wanted to be a college professor and knew it would require a phd so he got one. He then got a job but it only took one year to see that he wouldn't be doing what he wanted to do (he wanted to teach but that was left to the ta's and he was expected to bring in research dollars) so he left and got a job at a company that probably didn't require the phd (it was also more difficult to find a job because companies don't want to pay what a phd should be paid).  I also know someone else that is referred to as Dr. ________ but has to correct people because he didn't pursue a phd and didn't need to. People are shocked that he is where he is, doing what he's doing without that under his belt. I also know someone else who got an advanced degree but will probably never make much money with it even though they're still paying for the student loans. So if you haven't already, really examine if this is the best course of action and worth it in the long run. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by my two cents

[Jane_Doe]

PhD student in Ecology/Data Science here.

You're going to get to know your same-year peers extremely well, with and without weekend parties.  While there is always a group of students which hosts these parties over and over again, there's also other students that never go-- like students which have families or commute long distances.  But the getting to know people still happens regardless due to being together 40+ hours a week, constantly working on group projects, and just the mutual benefit of working together.  

Speaking personally, I'm also Mormon, have a family, and am very introverted.  The graduate school where I need to know these 10 people actually works really well for me-- cause ok, that's my small circle and I don't need to worry about others.   I'm not interested in just-for-social parties and don't attend at all.  And the graduate-school world has still continued marching forward.  People are actually understanding of non-drinkers and if a mandatory social event is at a bar then I just order orange juice.  I can be social without alcohol and people are 100% ok with that.  

Anyway, I can talk about this forever (graduate school is much of my life), so feel free to ask anything or vent any time.  I 100% get the stress.

[zil]

10 hours ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

Many of these groups get together on weekends or weeknights for happy hour to relax and not think about school, and it's really important to build those relationships with them because you will be with these people for the next 5-6 years. .... So it's important to get along with them and find a sort of camaraderie.  

Why is this important?  I've worked with the same people for at least that long, and we don't need to go hang out together after work in order to "build relationships".  We get along and have plenty of work-appropriate camaraderie.  Even more importantly, even those of us who don't particularly like each other still work well together - not because of "relationships", but because we're professionals.

In fact, I submit our working relationships are better for not spending all our time together and for having other relationships to give variety and, bluntly, a break from each other.  Those other relationships are also an important reason decent people go to work in the first place (to provide for their families, to earn sufficient to enjoy time with family (immediate and extended), to provide for their own needs rather than being dependent on others, to have sufficient resources to serve others, to have sufficient resources to enjoy non-professional talents and interests, etc.).

I suppose if these other people in this program don't have families (or don't want to spend time with them), don't have external altruistic commitments (like church and volunteering for charities and the like), and are so single-minded that they have no external hobbies or interests (besides consuming alcohol), then perhaps they won't get it, but I would consider that their problem, not something to emulate or participate in.

I could not disagree more with the notion that people should spend all their time with their co-workers.  I think the whole idea is a bunch of nonsense.

In other words, I think you should challenge this claim that this level of interaction is important - and so should everyone else in your group - and maybe they'll need you to help them question it.

On the other hand, at the end of the day, you should do what the Lord tells you is right.  If you feel like you're not getting an answer, do what you think is best.

[Jane_Doe]

Echoing @zil's words--

I'm in graduate school and work very closely with another graduate student-- he gets data, I process it.  Literally everything we do is connected and we need to constantly coordinate together.  We have a great working relationship, and I consider him one of my best friends.  But outside of work?  Our interests are extreme opposite- we can't even agree on music or tv shows!  In 4 years I can't think of a time we've just gotten together to "hang out" after work*.  I mean, after I've worked with him for 60 hours in a week, do we really need to go get dinner too?????  

* "Hang out" being defined as optional social events, not mandatory social events (recruiting, conferences, big rites of passage, etc).  

[person0]

I agree with @zil.  Personally, I do not see hanging out with co-workers or classmates as a requirement.  Regardless, in your shoes I personally would probably not bother to pursue a PhD.  I find most modern academia to be fruitless in terms of true quality education and positive economic production (even undergrad these days!).  The cost/benefit just doesn't fully add up for me.  However, If I were to make the decision to move forward with the PhD, I would just do the same thing I do in job interviews, act like I'm going to be the best candidate ever for the position and then be myself after they already gave me the job.  This could translate to telling truth's like, "yeah, I love hanging out with friends and colleagues!", and yet keeping some of the truth in your head only, ". . . as long as they are having good clean fun and no alcohol is involved, and I am actually interested in what they will be doing".

[askandanswer]

15 hours ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

I'm going in to round 2 of applying to doctoral programs, and as I work more within my field at the masters level I'm learning more of the interaction and socialization that these programs involve. To explain.....these types of programs take in an incoming class that is called a "cohort" and these students usually take all the same classes together and are with each other for long hours of the day. This tight knit group mentality is very well known within the programs I am looking at so if you are interviewed, your ability to "fit in" and "match" with the others interviewing, and the current students, is taken into account (alongside your academics and professional accomplishments--this obviously taking more precedent but the social aspect is still very important). 

As someone who is a very introverted, homebody person, this kind of socialization takes a lot of effort and energy on my part. Many of these groups get together on weekends or weeknights for happy hour to relax and not think about school, and it's really important to build those relationships with them because you will be with these people for the next 5-6 years. And if it's a new area for you, and you don't know anyone out there, it's even more important because those relationships are the majority of your day and the start of your "friendship" bubble in that new area. So it's important to get along with them and find a sort of camaraderie.  

(I feel like I'm just putting all my thoughts into words and sentences but it's just a big mess so bear with me...) As a mormon, and an introvert, that kind of group socialization can be a little difficult. I usually find it easier to connect with 1 person, who usually is LDS as well, instead of hanging out in big groups that go out to drink and I'm the one person who isn't drinking to "relieve the stress of grad school". But I know that it's so important to be apart of that social group in those 5-6 years. You can't really do those programs by yourself. I think this is just me having another reason to freak out and wonder if I want to commit 5-6 years of my life in a PhD program, especially when I'd rather be married and building that type of life, and starting that kind of program feels like it would make that even more difficult (time consuming, stressful, doesn't allow for me to move, definitely wouldn't be ideal to start a family while in that program, etc.). But what I want to do with my career really requires a PhD, so I just feel like I'm in this big loop of "what do I do?".  I also actually have to be accepted into a program, which is a whole other thing to stress about since it is incredibly competitive. So I guess I can have these "crisis" moments when I actually have the possibility of being in a program, but these thoughts still lurk my mind. 

I think I just needed to write out my thoughts and worries...Because what else do you do at night besides think/worry about the things that you can't change or fix right at this moment? I know I need to just put this all at the Lord's feet and take it off my shoulders but I'm such a "solver" when it comes to these kinds of things. I just want to work it all out in my head. Bleh.

Any sound/reassuring words of advice are welcome. Or feel free to just read and think to yourself, "glad I didn't choose a career that requires that much schooling!", cause I wouldn't blame you. 

Reellaaxxx!! I've heard that the second Ph.D is generally easier than the first, you just have to get through this first one, and then things will be easier