Is It Okay to Admitting to a Substandard Testimony from Behind the Pulpit?

[Fether]

On 8/10/2017 at 11:24 PM, clbent04 said:

Pretty much every speaker I've heard in church states only what they know to be true about the church.  I don't think I've ever heard anyone admit to not knowing something.  For me, I think it would be beneficial to hear if other members had shortcomings when it comes to their testimony of the church.  I would like to know I could relate to more people out there like me who have things to work on.

Do you think the following examples would be appropriate to say from behind the pulpit?

• I don't know if this church is true.  I grew up in the church, but I'm still unsure.  I'm working on finding an answer and have been reading the scriptures and praying more frequently... 
• I believe this church is true, but I don't know if the Book of Mormon is. I've prayed over and over again specifically asking if the Book of Mormon is true, but I have yet to receive an answer. I believe in the church nonetheless based on the overall feelings I receive when I go to church. I'm not giving up on praying about the Book of Mormon...

Furthermore, do you think it would be okay to discuss a sin your currently struggling with from behind the pulpit?

• I have been dealing with an addition to pornography for the past 20 years, and am currently seeking the Lord's help in overcoming this problem... (assuming someone would be gutsy enough to ever say this one!)
• I tend to talk a lot and gossip with my friends, and realized the other day how negative gossiping can make others feel. I felt bad because my friend overheard me talking about her to the soccer team. I told her I'm sorry, and I'm trying to be more careful with what I say.  I prayed to God the other night to ask forgiveness from Him too.

 

I don't think sharing sins is appropriate, remember it is a "Fast and testimony meeting" not a "Fast and tell-a-story meeting"

 

[clbent04]

10 minutes ago, Fether said:

I don't think sharing sins is appropriate, remember it is a "Fast and testimony meeting" not a "Fast and tell-a-story meeting"

I agree sharing sins is not appropriate in a fast and testimony meeting. But what about a talk? Do you think you could in the right spirit share an obstacle you encountered in your life even if it's something you're still working on?

[Fether]

13 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I agree sharing sins is not appropriate in a fast and testimony meeting. But what about a talk? Do you think you could in the right spirit share an obstacle you encountered in your life even if it's something you're still working on?

I think it depends on what sin, why you are sharing it and what stage of the sin/repentance you are in.

For instance. A member of my old Ward once in a talk spoke about his younger days when we would drink and doing lots of drugs. In his story he talked about a vision he had where he jammed with Les zepplin and JC in Heaven... not sure that was wholy appropriate.

But yes I think for the most part it is appropriate.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Fether

[Mike]

14 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I agree sharing sins is not appropriate in a fast and testimony meeting. But what about a talk? Do you think you could in the right spirit share an obstacle you encountered in your life even if it's something you're still working on?

Hmmm. I'm leaning against it, but give me a true example and let's examine it in the right spirit here. 

[clbent04]

21 minutes ago, Mike said:

Hmmm. I'm leaning against it, but give me a true example and let's examine it in the right spirit here. 

In a previous example I gave in this thread, let's say you were assigned a talk on tithing but hadn't happened to pay your tithing the last 3 years.  Would it be okay to base the majority of the talk on explaining what tithing is using scripture references and possibly an inspirational story, how you believe it to be a commandment of God, and then somewhere in the talk briefly mention that although you yourself haven't been a full tithe payer for quite some time, you are actively working on becoming a full tithe payer once more as you know it is a commandment of God and will bring blessings to those who are faithful (sorry for the run-on sentence)

Edited August 12, 2017 by clbent04

[Grunt]

7 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

In a previous example I gave in this thread, let's say you were assigned a talk on tithing but hadn't happened to pay your tithing the last 3 years.  Would it be okay to base the majority of the talk on explaining what tithing is using scripture references and possibly an inspirational story, how you believe it to be a commandment of God, and then somewhere in the talk briefly mention that although you yourself haven't been a full tithe payer for quite some time, you are actively working on becoming a full tithe payer once more as you know it is a commandment of God and will bring blessings to those who are faithful (sorry for the run-on sentence)

Why don't you just focus on yourself, your family, your shortcomings, your addictions, and your faith?  Why are you so concerned about all these side topics?  In my opinion, they are distracting you from getting your life straight.  It's almost like you NEED the spotlight.  You need to be controversial.  You need to post a million topics about issues that are fringe to the meat of your story.  You feel the need to worry about these obscure topics when you don't even have your foundation built.  

I seriously don't get you.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Grunt

[Mike]

8 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

28 minutes ago, Mike said:

Hmmm. I'm leaning against it, but give me a true example and let's examine it in the right spirit here. 

In a previous example I gave in this thread, let's say you were assigned a talk on tithing but hadn't happened to pay your tithing the last 3 years.  Would it be okay to base the majority of the talk on explaining what tithing is using scripture references and possibly an inspirational story, how you believe it to be a commandment of God, and then somewhere in the talk briefly mention that although you yourself haven't been a full tithe payer for quite some time, you are actively working on becoming a full tithe payer once more as you know it is a commandment of God and will bring blessings to those who are faithful (sorry for the run-on sentence)

I regret having overlooked the previous example. But as you presented it just now, I don't have any problem. I would like to believe that the members of your congregation would accept your good intentions, and that perhaps another member who struggles with paying tithing would feel motivated in a good way.  Do you have another example?

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Mike

[clbent04]

1 minute ago, Mike said:

I regret having overlooked the previous example. But as you presented it just now, I don't have any problem. I would like to believe that the members of your congregation would accept your good intentions, and that perhaps another member who struggles with paying tithing would feel motivated in a good way.  Do you have another example?

Thanks @Mike. That's pretty much the idea right there. Just glad to hear one other person on this forum would accept my good intentions. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough for others to understand in the beginning of this thread, or maybe a lot of members in the church really do have a problem with someone admitting to not being perfect from behind the pulpit even if attempted in the right spirit

[Mike]

2 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Thanks @Mike. That's pretty much the idea right there. Just glad to hear one other person on this forum would accept my good intentions. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough for others to understand in the beginning of this thread, or maybe a lot of members in the church really do have a problem with someone admitting to not being perfect from behind the pulpit even if attempted in the right spirit

Speaking of the rank-and-file members in an average congregation I think most do not have a problem with one of their own admitting to imperfection even from the pulpit. I think it's useful to differentiate between the fast-and-testimony meeting and a regular sacrament meeting where the topic is assigned to the one doing the admitting. And I think we should probably have a greater attitude of concern for the benefit of the listeners in the meeting (especially the weaker among us) than for any benefit we suppose we might derive from doing the admitting--if that makes sense.

 

[clbent04]

48 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I seriously don't get you.

My testimony is not dependent on receiving any answers to questions I may post on this website. I already have a testimony of the church however imperfect it may be. I ask the questions I do to out of curiosity to topics I've wondered about for a long time

Edited August 12, 2017 by clbent04

[clbent04]

9 minutes ago, Mike said:

And I think we should probably have a greater attitude of concern for the benefit of the listeners in the meeting (especially the weaker among us) than for any benefit we suppose we might derive from doing the admitting--if that makes sense.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks

[estradling75]

On 8/12/2017 at 0:16 AM, clbent04 said:

If this is the case, I'd like to say sorry and I hope you just ignore whatever I've posted that may bother you.  I didn't really think about how people investigating the church were also posting stuff on this website. When I first joined the website last week, I thought it was more of just seasoned members in the church sharing their knowledge on gospel topics. I was really glad to find this website to have the chance to ask a lot of questions I never had a chance to ask before.

We have all kinds posting here.  We have long/old timers, we have new converts, we have some that are strong in the faith, we have some that are weak in the faith, we have some that have left, and some that are looking, and we have some that are of a different faith entirely. 

All are welcome as long as they agree and follow the rules and understand that this is a very Pro-LDS church and its leaders site, and that not everything they might want to post is acceptable here (as outlined in the rules and the purposes of this site).  Not everyone is agreeable to that and that is ok, they can find another site more agreeable to their feelings to post, but those are really the only limits imposed on who can be here.

 

[clbent04]

22 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

We have all kinds posting here.  We have long/old timers, we have new converts, we have some that are strong in the faith, we have some that are weak in the faith, we have some that have left, and some that are looking, and we have some that are of a different faith entirely. 

All are welcome as long as they agree and follow the rules and understand that this is a very Pro-LDS church and its leaders site, and that not everything they might want to post is acceptable here (as outlined in the rules and the purposes of this site).  Not everyone is agreeable to that and that is ok, they can find another site more agreeable to their feelings to post, but those are really the only limits imposed on who can be here.

 

Thanks @estradling75. I think I do follow the rules. I just wanted to cover my bases with@Grunt since I know he's an investigator and it seems like he takes issue with most things I say 

[Guest]

On 8/12/2017 at 2:09 PM, clbent04 said:

My testimony is not dependent on receiving any answers to questions I may post on this website. I already have a testimony of the church however imperfect it may be. I ask the questions I do to out of curiosity to topics I've wondered about for a long time

Then just say that.

"I have a testimony of the truthfulness of the Church.  It isn't perfect.  It is weak, I know.  But I'm working on it.  And I know that the Lord will be guiding me all along my journey."

That is quite different than saying.

"I'm just not sure it is true. But I think it is."

***********************************

As far as sinning, I believe it should be whatever you AND the audience is comfortable with discussing.  Do you believe most of the congregation is comfortable talking about your use of pornography?  How about the kids?  You'd at least have to admit that it is not "age appropriate" for many in the congregation.

And I'll tell you that most adults will not feel comfortable with a new person they barely know talking about more serious sins.  As Vort said, only in some very specific circumstances would it be appropriate to bring your sins up in a sacrament meeting.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Guest

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Then just say that.

"I have a testimony of the truthfulness of the Church.  It isn't perfect.  It is weak, I know.  But I'm working on it.  And I know that the Lord will be guiding me all along my journey."

I like that a lot!   I would add that you can testify to want you feel you know, and be quiet about things you aren't sure about.  For example, say an investigator wanted to share their love of the Savior, but didn't quite have a testimony of the church, and all that implies.  That investigator could say, "I have a testimony of prayer.  I'm so grateful for the influence of Christ in my life.  Following His example has brought joy into my life.  Then close . . .  I think that would be just fine.  

[estradling75]

12 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Thanks @estradling75. I think I do follow the rules. I just wanted to cover my bases with@Grunt since I know he's an investigator and it seems like he takes issue with most things I say 

The mods discuss rule breaking privately so if you were you'd know.

Many here (mods and non mods) are experienced with anti-mormons or other wolves in sheep's clothing's...Who try to hide their intent behind "asking questions"...  Such people tend to draw a quick, and sharp reactions from some of the members here. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference between a onslaught of questions from a member who is working through various things, and an anti who is trying to cause as much damage as they can before being shutdown. Sometimes errors in judgement can be made in making that determination

[Grunt]

1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

Thanks @estradling75. I think I do follow the rules. I just wanted to cover my bases with@Grunt since I know he's an investigator and it seems like he takes issue with most things I say 

You don't have to worry about any bases with me, I'm a big boy.  Thanks, though.  You have your own path to follow.  I don't have to like it.  I can have my opinions about it and/or you.  I have no standing to voice them, so it's best if I just stick to things I find useful and ignore those that I don't.  The onus isn't on you to know the difference.  The information gained here certainly influences my opinion of LDS, though.

I hope you're sincere in your search and find what you're looking for.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Grunt

[clbent04]

49 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Then just say that.

"I have a testimony of the truthfulness of the Church.  It isn't perfect.  It is weak, I know.  But I'm working on it.  And I know that the Lord will be guiding me all along my journey."

That is quite different than saying.

"I'm just not sure it is true. But I think it is."

My examples I provided previously were meant to be more in line with your first example here. 

49 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

As far as sinning, I believe it should be whatever you AND the audience is comfortable with discussing.  Do you believe most of the congregation is comfortable talking about your use of pornography?  How about the kids?  You'd at least have to admit that it is not "age appropriate" for many in the be appropriate to bring your sins up in a sacrament meeting.

I agree that "as far as sinning, I believe it should be whatever you AND the audience is comfortable with discussing."

I don't think I personally would have enough guts nor want to admit to an entire congregation from behind the pulpit I've watched porn, even if I found some way to slide that bit of information into my talk in the right spirit.

I just wonder what would happen if we were more open with each other about personal struggles we are going through. Could we find some good it that?

To me it seems whoever takes the microphone in Church has to appear to have a 100 percent testimony, when in reality, we all know that's not the case. 

I personally would appreciate it if more speakers were down to earth with admitting they might not be perfect, but that they have hope in Christ of becoming better.

Edited August 13, 2017 by clbent04

[anatess2]

On 8/12/2017 at 2:39 PM, clbent04 said:

In a previous example I gave in this thread, let's say you were assigned a talk on tithing but hadn't happened to pay your tithing the last 3 years.  Would it be okay to base the majority of the talk on explaining what tithing is using scripture references and possibly an inspirational story, how you believe it to be a commandment of God, and then somewhere in the talk briefly mention that although you yourself haven't been a full tithe payer for quite some time, you are actively working on becoming a full tithe payer once more as you know it is a commandment of God and will bring blessings to those who are faithful (sorry for the run-on sentence)

What would be the purpose of you mentioning in a talk about tithing that you haven't paid tithing?  Why does it have to be said?

If you don't have a firm grasp of the concept of the talk, you don't have to give the talk.  You can decline the talk and tell the Bishop/Counselor that you are still struggling with this concept.  The bishopric can then help you with the concept and see if you gain enough of a firm grasp on it to give the talk or if you need to continue to see the bishopric to improve on it first before giving a talk on the topic.  But, accepting the talk and then saying on the pulpit, "Do as I say not as I do", is just a lot of unnecessary information that has no faith-promoting purpose.  You can give an inspiring talk without it.  If you feel the need to confess, confess to the bishop, not the whole ward.

Edited August 14, 2017 by anatess2

[anatess2]

17 hours ago, clbent04 said:

I just wonder what would happen if we were more open with each other about personal struggles we are going through. Could we find some good it that?

To me it seems whoever takes the microphone in Church has to appear to have a 100 percent testimony, when in reality, we all know that's not the case. 

I personally would appreciate it if more speakers were down to earth with admitting they might not be perfect, but that they have hope in Christ of becoming better.

You seem to not understand the purpose of a Testimony or a Talk.  There are such things as Home Teaching and Visit Teaching or even Priesthood/Relief Society meetings where these things are talked about.