Fair Mormon: another source for answers to questions about lds faith

[Rob Osborn]

5 hours ago, Vort said:

I disbelieve this, but am willing to be educated. Please provide the details on the Church's "official position" regarding the Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement that is rejected by FAIR.

This is false. There is no such "official recognition", any more than the Church "officially recognizes" that Jesus was born April 6, 1 BC.

And so the first man, Adam, and the first woman, Eve, were formed and given bodies that resembled those of our heavenly parents (Gospel Principles ch. 5)

God prepared this earth as a home for His children. Adam and Eve were chosen to be the first people to live on the earth (see Moses 1:34; 4:26). Their part in our Father’s plan was to bring mortality into the world. They were to be the first parents. (Gospel Principles ch. 6)

                    
                
            
            During Noah’s time the earth was completely covered with water. This was the baptism of the earth and symbolized a cleansing (1 Pet. 3:20–21) (Guide to the Scriptures, "Flood")

[Vort]

1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

And so the first man, Adam, and the first woman, Eve, were formed and given bodies that resembled those of our heavenly parents (Gospel Principles ch. 5)

God prepared this earth as a home for His children. Adam and Eve were chosen to be the first people to live on the earth (see Moses 1:34; 4:26). Their part in our Father’s plan was to bring mortality into the world. They were to be the first parents. (Gospel Principles ch. 6)

I know of no position taken by FAIR that contradicts these ideas.

2 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

During Noah’s time the earth was completely covered with water. This was the baptism of the earth and symbolized a cleansing (1 Pet. 3:20–21) (Guide to the Scriptures, "Flood")

Guide to the Scriptures does not establish Church doctrine.

[Rob Osborn]

6 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Outsider perspective:  LDS.net is a gathering site for mostly well-educated LDS who want to bounce around ideas, scenarios, and general opinions--with an eye towards a greater audience that include non-LDS, like myself. It can be a good starting place for the curious-to-investigator, who wants a "feel" for what many LDS think.

FAIR is an apologetics organization, with some strong academic backing. As such, I would hold their answers with a "fair" amount of trust. Some of their members/representatives are faculty and LDS institutions.  In the same manner, if I wanted to find out about Catholicism, without actually going to a parish or official Catholic source, groups like Catholic Answers gives some pretty clear responses (plus they speak Evangelical--as do some at FAIR).

Of course--1000X of course!  -- LDS.org has the official answers.  Mormon.org can get me into chat with actual missionaries.  The local bishop is an easy find. BUT, I tend to give apologists high regard.  Hey, Ravi Zacharias is an Evangelical apologist, and he even spoke at the LDS Tabernacle. 

I dont put much faith in apologetics. Often times their biases are so entrenched they arent even willing to dialogue.

[Vort]

Just now, Rob Osborn said:

I dont put much faith in apologetics. Often times their biases are so entrenched they arent even willing to dialogue.

I actually somewhat agree with you about apologetics, but I find your second sentence most ironic.

[Rob Osborn]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

I know of no position taken by FAIR that contradicts these ideas.

Guide to the Scriptures does not establish Church doctrine.

Then you havent read the material at FAIR

The Guide to the scriptures is established church doctrine.

[Rob Osborn]

"The Guide to the Scriptures
        
        
            The Guide to the Scriptures defines selected doctrines, principles, people, and places found in the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. It also provides key scriptural references for you to study for each topic. This Guide can help you in your individual and family study of the scriptures. It can help you answer questions about the gospel, study topics in the scriptures, prepare talks and lessons, and increase your knowledge and testimony of the gospel."

[prisonchaplain]

1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

I dont put much faith in apologetics. Often times their biases are so entrenched they arent even willing to dialogue.

Then I don't blame you. Your purpose for putting faith in is to engage in a dialogue, and perhaps even do some convincing. I see apologists as well-versed experts who greatly desire to share their faith, and to clear up common misinformation and attacks. So, if I were LDS, and wanted to debate the LDS view of creation with an apologist who strongly disagreed with my view, I would likely end up frustrated. If I were an Evangelical/Pentecostal prison chaplain who wanted an inside take on what the best LDS takes are on the Mountain Meadows controversy, I'm guessing a place like FAIR would give me some good intel. Likewise, if I wanted a Catholic explanation of transubstantiation--many at Catholic Answers are former Evangelicals, and so would be especially adept at explaining it in a way I could understand.

[Vort]

4 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

The Guide to the scriptures is established church doctrine.

Not in this case.

[Rob Osborn]

1 minute ago, prisonchaplain said:

Then I don't blame you. Your purpose for putting faith in is to engage in a dialogue, and perhaps even do some convincing. I see apologists as well-versed experts who greatly desire to share their faith, and to clear up common misinformation and attacks. So, if I were LDS, and wanted to debate the LDS view of creation with an apologist who strongly disagreed with my view, I would likely end up frustrated. If I were an Evangelical/Pentecostal prison chaplain who wanted an inside take on what the best LDS takes are on the Mountain Meadows controversy, I'm guessing a place like FAIR would give me some good intel. Likewise, if I wanted a Catholic explanation of transubstantiation--many at Catholic Answers are former Evangelicals, and so would be especially adept at explaining it in a way I could understand.

You will get more to the truth on a topic in an open forum like this one than you will get at places like FAIR. The reason being is that in a forum like this you have willibg people on every side and with a variety of bias to present evidenced. Generally, a topic gets quite hashed out here whereas at FAIR you might have one scholars bias and thats all.

[Rob Osborn]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

Not in this case.

Whatever. Believe what you want.

[prisonchaplain]

@Rob Osborn I can really disagree with you...I mean here I be, after 11 years.

[SpiritDragon]

On 8/29/2017 at 0:54 PM, Rob Osborn said:

Its kind of interesting that even on the FAIR blog I get censored if they dont like my comments. At least in here I have never been censored. So, in reality, this forum is more balanced for dialoguing and finding truth than FAIR!

Censorship, that doesn't sound FAIR!

[Snigmorder]

17 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

Censorship, that doesn't sound FAIR!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

@Sunday21, I love FAIR. When I was going through a crisis of faith, I spent a lot of time there. The types of questions they answer were not what was troubli g me, but still it was nice to be somewhere where questions seemed acceptable.  

I tried MormonStories too, bit quickly realized that was NOT the place to be if I wanted to rebuild my faith. 

If one wants to follow the counsel of Johm Bytheway and Pres. Uctdorf to "doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith."  Then FAIR is s great place to hang out. I learned some interesting things there.

I also found, The Crucible of Doubt by Teryl and Fiona Givens very helpful and The God Who Weeps. 

[Snigmorder]

3 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I tried MormonStories too, bit quickly realized that was NOT the place to be if I wanted to rebuild my faith.

The complacency of Mormon stories makes me spit.

[Guest MormonGator]

16 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Whatever. Believe what you want.

That same thing can be said right at you. You seem to misunderstand that the goal of every online forum is not to blindly obey every single want and desire of @Rob Osborn. 
 

Edited August 31, 2017 by MormonGator

[prisonchaplain]

9 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

The complacency of Mormon stories makes me spit.

Didn't the guy who founded that podcast leave the church?  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/10/john-dehlin-excommunication_n_6653090.html

Edited August 31, 2017 by prisonchaplain

[Rob Osborn]

18 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

That same thing can be said right at you. You seem to misunderstand that the goal of every online forum is not to blindly obey every single want and desire of @Rob Osborn. 
 

You are speaking out of context. My reply was in regards to if the Guide to the Scriptures was an official doctrine resource of the church. I thus posted the forward it reads-

"The Guide to the Scriptures
        
        
            The Guide to the Scriptures defines selected doctrines, principles, people, and places found in the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. It also provides key scriptural references for you to study for each topic. This Guide can help you in your individual and family study of the scriptures. It can help you answer questions about the gospel, study topics in the scriptures, prepare talks and lessons, and increase your knowledge and testimony of the gospel."

Vort said it wasnt official. I dont know how more "official" one can get than to have an officially published resource that states emphatically that it "defines selected doctrines"

Thats why I replied with "whatever, belueve what you want". Its kind of one of those things that you can lead a a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Good day Gator.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Rob Osborn said:

 

Good day Gator.

Thanks! It is a great day actually. Looking forward to getting this month over with and for a new one to start. My Gators FINALLY open their season on Saturday against Michigan. We've had what seems like half of our team suspended! Yikes!  

And my response to you was dead on. You seem to want FAIR Mormon to follow your rules. 

[Snigmorder]

1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

Didn't the guy who founded that podcast leave the church?  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/10/john-dehlin-excommunication_n_6653090.html

Looks like it.

"In a statement, Dehlin said that he and his wife were proud to stand up for freedom of expression, and gender and marriage equality."

A Mormon, or any other pursuer of Christ, who makes dullard leftist superstitions precedent over the uncreated realities of the Eternal Civilization and fails to see the contradiction thereof, is the very definition of complacent or unbelieving. 

And if one professes to believe and supports the leftist program, they ought to engage in some serious reflection and humility. Because when the Eternal Civilization comes, those philosophies, which were a stumbling block to their faith, will be burned as chaff, and they will be restored to nothing but that which they've sown, like the rest of us. 

Their virtue signaling and fake moral high ground will have no merit at the Judgment Bar.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

13 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

Looks like it.

"In a statement, Dehlin said that he and his wife were proud to stand up for freedom of expression, and gender and marriage equality."

A Mormon, or any other pursuer of Christ, who makes dullard leftist superstitions precedent over the uncreated realities of the Eternal Civilization and fails to see the contradiction thereof, is the very definition of complacent or unbelieving. 

And if one professes to believe and supports the leftist program, they ought to engage in some serious reflection and humility. Because when the Eternal Civilization comes, those philosophies, which were a stumbling block to their faith, will be burned as chaff, and they will be restored to nothing but that which they've sown, like the rest of us. 

Their virtue signaling and fake moral high ground will have no merit at the Judgment Bar.

 

You are still sort of depressed that Hillary lost huh? I understand. Don't worry, you'll get over it.  

[Snigmorder]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You are still sort of depressed that Hillary lost huh? I understand. Don't worry, you'll get over it.  

Don't tempt me or I'll tell the zookeepers to fill your water hole with the choicest of liquid compounds.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Snigmorder said:

Don't tempt me or I'll tell the zookeepers to fill your water hole with the choicest of liquid compounds.

I like cold whisk-Whoops! 

Um, I meant milk please. 

[Snigmorder]

35 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

whisk

Edited August 31, 2017 by Snigmorder

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

3 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Didn't the guy who founded that podcast leave the church?  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/10/john-dehlin-excommunication_n_6653090.html

Yes, but that was long after I stopped listening to him.  When I listened, he was still trying to rebuild his faith (or that's what he said.)  

1 hour ago, Snigmorder said:

And if one professes to believe and supports the leftist program, they ought to engage in some serious reflection and humility. Because when the Eternal Civilization comes, those philosophies, which were a stumbling block to their faith, will be burned as chaff, and they will be restored to nothing but that which they've sown, like the rest of us. 

Their virtue signaling and fake moral high ground will have no merit at the Judgment Bar.

It really depends on what you mean by "Leftist".   My views would be considered Leftist to many here, and I am fine I assure you.  Remember that Elder Oaks said there are some judgments we have to make (like who is safe to watch our children) but there are other judgments we are commanded not to make and speculating about one's eternal reward (or lack there of) is a big one.  You can pray for me if it makes you feel better, LOL!