Keeping the Sabbath Day Holy

[mirkwood]

17 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Have you considered celebrating the Sabbath on a day you do not have to work? 

 

The Traveler

That would make me a Seventh Day Adventist.  I tend to work 6 days a week at one or both my jobs.

 

 

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Have you considered celebrating the Sabbath on a day you do not have to work? 

 

The Traveler

Not Mirkwood, but this can be an interesting conundrum when I am some other nations working (normally doing research).  In the Middle East they have a day of prayer on Friday.  It is an interesting thing (as some still believe the seventh day is Saturday, but the prayers are on Friday, and it is Friday that is like our Saturday or Sunday here).  In many places, churches therefore meet on Friday.  Sunday is seen as a normal workday most of the time in many areas.  I tended to try to do two Sabbaths each week at times, one on Friday and one on Sunday.  The first to recognize the government and main religions own religious observances (their day of prayer), and the latter to try to keep my own observance of what I felt is the Sabbath.

[Guest MormonGator]

11 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Ha, I can one up you on that.  I took Spanish instead of math.  No need to burn stupid math books that way.

I took it because I needed "general education" to graduate. The professor allowed crib notes (he actively encouraged them) and I only passed with their help. Crib notes, grading on the curve and flat out good luck. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by MormonGator

[mirkwood]

@MormonGator  I did too.  Math or a foreign language.

[Guest]

On 9/24/2017 at 8:33 AM, person0 said:

Side Note Commentary:  I also was just thinking about how general authorities travel on Sundays and eat at restaurants as part of their travels.  I recall my mission president telling me of a time when Boyd K. Packer was with a group of missionaries and stopped at a Wendy's.  When one of the missionaries seemed concerned he told the group of Elder's something along the lines of, "It is okay to do the Lord's work on the Sabbath; I know my body, and I need to eat to continue to do His work effectively today."  As I ponder on it, in my limited thinking, I still don't like that.  The GA is accomplishing the Lord's work, which is good, but if society as a whole kept the Sabbath holy, I doubt the GA's would be able to travel and eat out as needed unless using private jets and staff.  With modern technology it would be easy to pack cold meals, and other forms of nourishment if one were to adequately prepare.  However, I recognize that in many (if not most) cases such preparation could be very difficult to coordinate, especially when travel of any significant distance is involved.  Also, if the living prophet and apostles have received from the Lord that this is okay, then it's okay.

When looking at things like this with a microscope, we tend to strain at the gnat and swallow the camel.  So, it is important to ask the right questions for the right answers.

1) What is the Sabbath?
2) What is the alternative?
3) What is "work" or "labor"?
4) What examples and counsel are we given?

Thoughts on these:

1) The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.  I'm really not sure what this means.  It is the day we set aside to specially focus on the work of the Lord.  Forget the rest of th world.  Focus on the Lord's work.  If I buy a meal from a Jew on Sunday, what have I violated?  He's still had his Sabbath.  I'm fulfilling a necessary function -- eating.  Saints in Jerusalem regularly observe the Sabbath on Saturday instead of Sunday.  Is that violating the sabbath?

2) You do need to eat.  Is there some difference between paying someone (fast food) to make food for you vs. asking your mom to cook you a meal for free?  Yes, one is a hired hand, the other is a slave.  We're actually doing the worse of the two.  Do we always make cold or dry foods for meals on the Sabbath?  This is where we can really go off on tangents of what is and is not allowed on the Sabbath.

3) Under the Law of Moses, one was not allowed to "make a light" on the Sabbath.  It was a tremendous effort to create a fire in ancient times.  Yet, today we make a light by "flipping a switch".  Is that the same work?  Is it even considered work?  Some say yes.  The real thougthful question is "how much work is acceptable and how much is not?"  This is a judgment question that many could decide to magnify until they leave the Church over it.

4) We're given counsel to not shop on the Sabbath and make "reasonable" efforts to prepare for every needful thing on the day before.  In fact, the latter-day counsel we have in scripture is to only do the Lord's work and NOTHING else but prepare food. 

Quote

12 But remember that on this, the Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.

13 And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.

D&C 59: 12-13

Again, is it better to ask family to do it for free or to buy it from a stranger?  What about travelling to get the food?  If you're away from home, then you probably need to travel somewhere.  Then where?  To buy or to ask for free?

To help answer the first question, I'll continue the above reference.

Quote

14 Verily, this is fasting and prayer, or in other words, rejoicing and prayer.

15 And inasmuch as ye do these things with thanksgiving, with cheerful hearts and countenances, not with much laughter, for this is sin, but with a glad heart and a cheerful countenance—

16 Verily I say, that inasmuch as ye do this, the fulness of the earth is yours, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which climbeth upon the trees and walketh upon the earth;

We receive joy and additional blessings of the earth by observing the Sabbath.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Guest

[person0]

@Carborendum,  I get and appreciate your perspective.  Here are some thoughts I have:

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

If I buy a meal from a Jew on Sunday, what have I violated?

In my mind, you have violated the Sabbath, but the Jew did not.

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Saints in Jerusalem regularly observe the Sabbath on Saturday instead of Sunday.  Is that violating the sabbath?

To me, the day is unimportant, the consistency of observation, and the holiness of the observation is the most important.

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Is there some difference between paying someone (fast food) to make food for you vs. asking your mom to cook you a meal for free?  Yes, one is a hired hand, the other is a slave.  We're actually doing the worse of the two. . . is it better to ask family to do it for free or to buy it from a stranger? . . .  If you're away from home, then you probably need to travel somewhere.  Then where?  To buy or to ask for free?

I disagree.  There is no slavery involved, your mother/father does it as an act of service and love, in addition to their divinely appointed duty.   It is better to ask family to prepare it. If all fast food workers worked for free on the Sabbath, and if all restaurant owners reduced their prices to to cost only and did not produce profits on the Sabbath, you could also consider this as an act of service for the restaurant and it's employees.  If people abused this service and did not use it on a need basis, the abusers would be breaking the Sabbath.  If you are away from home, you would put forth sufficient effort to secure food in advance in preparation.

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Do we always make cold or dry foods for meals on the Sabbath?  This is where we can really go off on tangents of what is and is not allowed on the Sabbath.

I agree with you.

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

The real thoughtful question is "how much work is acceptable and how much is not?"  This is a judgment question that many could decide to magnify until they leave the Church over it.

I would say the real question is "what type(s) of work is acceptable, and what is not?"  I agree that people should not be taking this to extremes, like my in-laws refrigerator which has a 'Sabbath mode' for orthodox Jews.

BTW:  I am mostly just debating your statements for discussion and perspective purposes, in good fun/conversation.  I am not saying I think people must attempt to live this strictly, nor that I am a perfect Sabbath observer.

Edited October 4, 2017 by person0

[Craig Morris]

Interesting to see what the Book of Mormon says about the Sabbath. It is mentioned 3 times: by Jarom (saying they kept the law of Moses), Abinadi (in his sermon on the true meaning of the law of Moses) and Alma the Elder when he formed the church. In 2nd Nephi 25-26 Nephi tells his people they must keep the law of Moses until Christ comes but that then "the words which he (Christ) shall speak unto you shall be the law which ye shall do". Among the Nephites Christ never talks about the Sabbath day but does say "behold, ye shall meet together oft". In 4th Nephi Mormon says "And they did not walk any more after the performances and ordinances of the law of Moses; but they did walk after the commandments which they had received from their Lord and their God, continuing in fasting and prayer, and in meeting together oft both to pray and to hear the word of the Lord". And in his description of the church Moroni says "And the church did meet together oft, to fast and to pray, and to speak one with another concerning the welfare of their souls".

As with other of the ten commandments (thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery) Christ doesn't give us the letter of the law but turns the commandment inward letting us decide how often  'oft' should be.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Craig Morris

[pam]

5 hours ago, Craig Morris said:

Interesting to see what the Book of Mormon says about the Sabbath. It is mentioned 3 times: by Jarom (saying they kept the law of Moses), Abinadi (in his sermon on the true meaning of the law of Moses) and Alma the Elder when he formed the church. In 2nd Nephi 25-26 Nephi tells his people they must keep the law of Moses until Christ come but that then "the words which he (Christ) shall speak unto you shall be the law which ye shall do". Among the Nephites Christ never talks about the Sabbath day but does say "behold, ye shall meet together oft". In 4th Nephi Mormon says "And they did not walk any more after the performances and ordinances of the law of Moses; but they did walk after the commandments which they had received from their Lord and their God, continuing in fasting and prayer, and in meeting together oft both to pray and to hear the word of the Lord". And in his description of the church Moroni says "And the church did meet together oft, to fast and to pray, and to speak one with another concerning the welfare of their souls".

As with other of the ten commandments (thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery) Christ doesn't give us the letter of the law but turns the commandment inward letting us decide how often  'oft' should be.

I almost always find that people with the last name of Morris I am related to.  But we'll keep that hush hush so you aren't embarrassed.