Gentle Parenting

[Grunt]

3 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think looking past the specific example to the concept is worth consideration. That specific response may or may not get any certain kid to learn and/or do better at life. But the idea is to interact with your children with kindness, and "GET YOUR BUTT OFF THE COUCH!" does not suit the bill in my thinking. The passive aggressive suggestion in the specific phrase you've quoted doesn't sound ideal to me either. But that doesn't negate the entire concept.

Why would I look past the specific example?  I assume it is what the author believed would best represent what he is proposing.

[Backroads]

Regarding choices:

How often does offering a child a choice (with the same end goal) work? 

Sometimes choices are appropriate, but in my experience they are most often indeed manipulative and kids know that.

 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

I'm not reading into anything.  I was quoting directly from one of the links you presented.

I know you were quoting something. I think you are reading into the quote meaning that isn't there.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

Why would I look past the specific example?  I assume it is what the author believed would best represent what he is proposing.

If you aren't able to understand why it's a good idea to look at an idea for it's merits beyond a single example given (that may have been less than an ideal example) then I suppose you'll never be able to understand what I find appealing about the idea.

There's a phrase for that: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/can-t-see-the-forest-for-the-trees

Edited October 8, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Backroads said:

Regarding choices:

How often does offering a child a choice (with the same end goal) work? 

Sometimes choices are appropriate, but in my experience they are most often indeed manipulative and kids know that.

Interesting. I cannot speak from experience on this one. Most of my experience related to young children is as an older brother, and back in that day parenting was pretty much all about authoritarianism.

But I cannot help but think that the idea here isn't just about what works in the moment. It's about, broadly, two things: 1 Being a Christ-like person and establishing patterns of interaction that are Christ-like, including concepts of showing empathy, respect, understanding while setting boundaries, and 2 by setting examples in these regards, your children do as you do (as they always will) vs. what you say. If you offer choices and show respect to the child, by doing so they learn to do the same to and for others. So I'm not sure it's really about manipulation.

But worth thinking about.

[Grunt]

6 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I know you were quoting something. I think you are reading into the quote meaning that isn't there.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Grunt

[Grunt]

38 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I know you were quoting something. I think you are reading into the quote meaning that isn't there.

I disagree.

[Grunt]

36 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

If you aren't able to understand why it's a good idea to look at an idea for it's merits beyond a single example given (that may have been less than an ideal example) then I suppose you'll never be able to understand what I find appealing about the idea.

There's a phrase for that: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/can-t-see-the-forest-for-the-trees

I fully understand the concept.  I disagree with it.  That appears to cause you discomfort, but I'm not sure why.

[Backroads]

And what of when there is no reasonable alternative to make into a choice?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

2 hours ago, Backroads said:

Regarding choices:

How often does offering a child a choice (with the same end goal) work? 

Sometimes choices are appropriate, but in my experience they are most often indeed manipulative and kids know that.

I agree that kids are smarter than we give them credit for.  I think this choice with the same end goal depends on the age.  or example, when my kids were toddlers, I let them choose which cup they wanted.  Same end goal, a cup is a cup, but I think they appreciated being able to choose.  An older child would, of course, think" that's stupid a cup is a cup." 

One of the ways I let my children choose was about coats.  Parents are always nagging their kids to wear a coat in the winter, but none of my kids seem to get cold as easily as I do.  So if they were just going across the street, I would let them choose if they wanted a coat or not.  If we were going to be out for a while at a football game or hiking or something, I would tell them, "You have to bring your coat, but it's your choice if you wear it."  

I gave my kids choices like this because I feel that my job as a parent is to teach them about life.  Letting them make mistakes, within reason, is a better form of teaching than simply commanding them, in my opinion. 

[The Folk Prophet]

18 minutes ago, Grunt said:

That appears to cause you discomfort, but I'm not sure why.

I'm perfectly comfortable with you thinking what you will. That does not mean I consider the responses you've shared thusfar logically valid.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

7 minutes ago, Backroads said:

And what of when there is no reasonable alternative to make into a choice?

Then you don't give them a choice, but they know...they're smart as you said, that you will give them an opportunity to choose when you can.  I told my kids, I will give you explanations (or choices) when I can, but those times that I can't I expect you to do as I asked.  This method might seem, to some, to lack discipline, but that was not the case for me.  I was actually very strict.  When my son talked back to me, I shut that down hard, and it didn't happen again.  It was a one time event, for each son that tried it.  Respect does not mean the parent gets walked on.  

Edited October 8, 2017 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

On 10/7/2017 at 9:42 AM, Sunday21 said:

You cannot teach a child to self soothe, you cannot teach a child to effectively parent themselves at night, they still need you to do that, just as they do during the day. Responding to a child at night with empathy, understanding, respect and boundaries is just as important as it is during daylight hours.

Sunday, it's not as bad as you might think.  I think parenting them at night also as suggested here actually makes them more confident and they learn on their own to self-soothe more quickly.  

[The Folk Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Backroads said:

And what of when there is no reasonable alternative to make into a choice?

I am not under the impression that giving them choices is anything more than an idea that can be applied when appropriate. As a concept, trying to find choices to offer when and if you can doesn't seem harmful. But, obviously, there aren't always going to be options.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

20 hours ago, Traveler said:

In both cases the end results has been purity much indistinguishable with one caveat.  Up through adolescents the children of the reward punishment method were much better behaved and obedient.

I'm surprised by that.  My kids are mostly grown now (my youngest is 11).  Whenever our family went to a restaurant, my husband and I joked that we couldn't leave until someone came and complimented us on our children...and they almost always did.  Yes, I am bragging a little bit, forgive me, but it was really flattering.  

[The Folk Prophet]

Just now, LiterateParakeet said:

I'm surprised by that.  My kids are mostly grown now (my youngest is 11).  Whenever our family went to a restaurant, my husband and I joked that we couldn't leave until someone came and complimented us on our children...and they almost always did.  Yes, I am bragging a little bit, forgive me, but it was really flattering.  

I believe Traveler's anecdote is based on something other than reality. Either that or he is (as many do) confusing this idea (gentle parenting) with permissive parenting -- which apparently is common.

[Grunt]

10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm perfectly comfortable with you thinking what you will. That does not mean I consider the responses you've shared thusfar logically valid.

That doesn't make them any less so.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

I believe Traveler's anecdote is based on something other than reality. Either that or he is (as many do) confusing this idea (gentle parenting) with permissive parenting -- which apparently is common.

Oh, I see.  I agree that gentle parenting and permissive parenting are NOT the same thing. 

[Grunt]

10 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Sunday, it's not as bad as you might think.  I think parenting them at night also as suggested here actually makes them more confident and they learn on their own to self-soothe more quickly.  

While I don't have anything to compare it to, taking the opposite approach was successful for my family.  My children are also very well adjusted to having choice or having no choice.  "No" is accepted as easily as "yes".

[Grunt]

4 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I believe Traveler's anecdote is based on something other than reality. Either that or he is (as many do) confusing this idea (gentle parenting) with permissive parenting -- which apparently is common.

Hinting to your children (almost whining) that you're tired of cleaning up after them IS permissive parenting.  Applying consequences for not cleaning up after themselves is not.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Just now, Grunt said:

Hinting to your children (almost whining) that you're tired of cleaning up after them IS permissive parenting.  Applying consequences for not cleaning up after themselves is not.

Maybe the article didn't explain well, I can't say for sure.  But I think the author meant to teach the children to be respectful of others.  I would have handled that a bit differently myself.  Since it's a little unclear to us as adults what the intent was here, I think it would be confusing to kids to.  If my kids made a mess, I would simply say, "Clean this up.  It's not fair to expect someone else to clean up after you."  

[Grunt]

Neither is "Gentle Parenting" an example of "Christ-like Parenting".   "For the wages of sin are death".  

[Backroads]

3 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Hinting to your children (almost whining) that you're tired of cleaning up after them IS permissive parenting.  Applying consequences for not cleaning up after themselves is not.

I completely agree. Hinting is manipulative. What's wrong with just telling kids how things need to be? 

[Grunt]

Just now, LiterateParakeet said:

Maybe the article didn't explain well, I can't say for sure.  But I think the author meant to teach the children to be respectful of others.  I would have handled that a bit differently myself.  Since it's a little unclear to us as adults what the intent was here, I think it would be confusing to kids to.  If my kids made a mess, I would simply say, "Clean this up.  It's not fair to expect someone else to clean up after you."  

I agree wholeheartedly.  Respect first and foremost.  

[Grunt]

Just now, Backroads said:

I completely agree. Hinting is manipulative. What's wrong with just telling kids how things need to be? 

Nothing.  They are kids.