Border Guards & Temple

[Sunday21]

Dear Bros & Sis’s,

My hometeacher and a car load of friends recently crossed the border to visit a temple. The US border guards decanted them into separate rooms and demanded a detailed discussion of the temple ceremony. The guards compared notes and demanded to know why the stories did not match.

As the Bros & Sis’s involved barely speak English, I wonder what kind of story, the border guards got?

I wonder why the guards were so curious as to the content of our temple ceremonies?

[zil]

19 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear Bros & Sis’s,

My hometeacher and a car load of friends recently crossed the border to visit a temple. The US border guards decanted them into separate rooms and demanded a detailed discussion of the temple ceremony. The guards compared notes and demanded to know why the stories did not match.

As the Bros & Sis’s involved barely speak English, I wonder what kind of story, the border guards got?

I wonder why the guards were so curious as to the content of our temple ceremonies?

These people should complain to someone - the question is, who.  I have to believe that this is illegal inside the US.  IMO, the folks in your area should be trained on how to handle idiotic border guards.

Oh, and they should bring copies of the Book of Mormon to hand out next time.    Oh, and there's special "Temples" magazine from years ago that talks all about the temple, complete with photos - they should take copies of that next time too.

https://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product3_715839595_10557_3074457345616706275_-1__214504?catalogId=10557&langId=-1&storeId=715839595&krypto=SU13JGipI85I6VRkCLRSPdSQDYoeNbDgEBDjw9i6FbUKL%2FI0nphvagg6z7HmOL0sbj4CuUmB4fN495FAk2HjNeplqjVT2Pp1doMl4cdWOLramSTOukBGO%2FVEIktIWKI%2B7z72IZq5Pzr%2BMMJyE29WhHmwdNu1%2BzbsWhlcSV9EBhE%3D&ddkey=https%3ASetCurrencyPreference

Edited February 21, 2018 by zil

[Sunday21]

@zil Border guards are a law unto themselves. If you are not American, they can do whatever they like. I think that I will get some copies of the temple material to handout and take copies of the Book of Mormon. Good ideas! I think I will start driving to the temple by myself!

Edited February 21, 2018 by Sunday21

[Sunday21]

I wonder if the guards thought we were training terrorists in the temple?

[Guest MormonGator]

Sunday, do you know for sure that this happened? It seems very odd to me. I've had many, many encounters with border patrol officers when I lived up north and I can't imagine this happening. It seems illegal.. 

[anatess2]

32 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@zil Border guards are a law unto themselves. If you are not American, they can do whatever they like. I think that I will get some copies of the temple material to handout and take copies of the Book of Mormon. Good ideas! I think I will start driving to the temple by myself!

If you're talking about the US border patrol, then no, the border guards (ICE) are not a law unto themselves.  They enforce Federal Law (not State Law) which has clear regulations on what they can do.  Border Patrol works the same way as Customs (in airports).  They have the authority to make sure you are who you say you are and your intent in entry is what you say they are.  If you've seen the movie 100 Foot Journey (with Hellen Mirren) you see the EU doing the same thing at the beginning of the movie - giving the family an interview on why they are entering the EU border asking them questions such as "are you looking for a husband?" etc.  When my family enters the US with a tourist visa, they usually give them the 3rd degree with different ways of asking the same question - how long do you plan on staying - until they are satisfied that they are telling the truth that they have no intention of holing up with their relatives and overstay their visa.  Visa overstays is the most common problem with people flying into the US from the Philippines.  So it makes things easier if you have clear proof you have a stake in returning to the Philippines instead of overstaying in the US - such as an appointment letter for some government activity (such as an appointment for renewal of SS benefits, etc.) or proof of business dealings, etc.

Edited February 21, 2018 by anatess2

[zil]

39 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@zil Border guards are a law unto themselves. If you are not American, they can do whatever they like. I think that I will get some copies of the temple material to handout and take copies of the Book of Mormon. Good ideas! I think I will start driving to the temple by myself!

Actually, they can't.  They are Americans and therefore subject to US law.  If they violate US law, then they have committed a crime.  If they violate the regulations and procedures of their job, they are subject to discipline just as any other employee.  The fact that they amount to law enforcement officers makes it trickier for the person dealing with them to, well, deal with them, but it doesn't mean they're free to do whatever they wish, nor that one should tolerate it.

[Guest MormonGator]

We all love you @Sunday21, and you know that but this sounds very strange to me! 

[paracaidista508]

1...what border are we talk g about here? us Mex ? Can mex?? Somewhere else???

2.... if this is the us mex border I'm calling b.s. on the story in respects to language barrier. I worked two ports of entry for a extended time with us military right at the entry where these folks would have been interviewed and almost every single officer there speaks fluent Spanish. There are a few who don't, but generally there is a fluent speaker standing there with them.

3. .. if the people are selected for secondary inspection and their stories about where they are going, what they are doing etc do not match then they will be grilled. Typically when you get a car load of Mexicans crossing and all have a different story about the nature of the trip they get divided up and interviewed. Reason being is because this is how the immigrant smuggling, fake id etc crap gets discovered. Every single day they handcuff carloads of people whos stories don't match and they end up being involved in some kind of scheme. Doesn't mean each car load of clueless people is guilty, but the guilty ones are discovered this way. 

4... as for border guards having nearly unlimited powers..yep that's pretty much it. You don't get to waltz up to our border and dictate how your crossing experience will be. No one has to come to the us.

Good reading

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority

The things the border patrol can do at the port of entry is much different than what cops do in the interior.

They do not need proable cause to search you or your car or your purse

They do not need to mirandize you until a crime is discovered.

They can arrests and charge you for merely arguing with them. There are signs all over the port entry stating to cooperate or be subject to arrest.

 

 

I suggest if they are from Mexico they worry about the stellar treatment their corrupt government is well known for instead of getting the run around here. Makes the bad cops we have look like angels.  

Side note: if these are canadians....oh my. Vacationing Canadians crossing into the us from Mex vacation spots give our border people unbelievable grief. They get arrested and fined all the time for running their mouths and causing scenes. Not nearly all of them, but i was suprised at how common it was. The border guards hated them. I'm sure plenty of Americans do the same, but I'll not be defending them acting a fool in another country.

Edited February 21, 2018 by paracaidista508

[zil]

16 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Visa overstays is the most common problem with people flying into the US from the Philippines.

When I worked in Russia, the planes flying from the US to Russia were the huge sorts (2 seats, aisle, 5 seats, aisle, 2 seats) and they were practically empty.  Every passenger in coach could stretch out on the 5 seat portion of their row, and swap sides to pick which window they wanted to look out at different times during the flight.  But those planes were jam-packed on the flight back to the US.

[zil]

1 minute ago, paracaidista508 said:

1...what border are we talk g about here? us Mex ? Can mex?? Somewhere else???

Going from Canada to the US.  The US border guards stopping the Canadians on their way into the US.

 

[anatess2]

16 minutes ago, zil said:

Going from Canada to the US.  The US border guards stopping the Canadians on their way into the US.

 

Okay, Canada to US used to be super easy.  You don't even need a passport.  That changed after 9/11 - now you have to have a passport and Canada provides the US with vetting info on their citizens.  Then very recently, soy boy Trudeau did some things that are sympathetic to Islamic terrorists.  Border Patrol between US and Canada tightened.

[Sunday21]

54 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Sunday, do you know for sure that this happened? It seems very odd to me. I've had many, many encounters with border patrol officers when I lived up north and I can't imagine this happening. It seems illegal.. 

My hometeacher came last night and told me about this. My sister commutes back and forth. I have been pulled in myself and yelled at...I was in the wrong lane. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Sunday21

[Guest MormonGator]

25 minutes ago, zil said:

Going from Canada to the US.  The US border guards stopping the Canadians on their way into the US.

 

As a kid and teenager you used to be able to cross without a passport. I remember doing so many times. The border patrol would look at you and basically say "No drugs? Eh, go on in" And leave you at that. After 9/11 it all changed. I remember getting stopped once with LG and the customs agent asked if I had a passport. I was stunned. I stammered, "um, eh, er...you need one?" We had our car searched once---everything changed after 9/11. 

2 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

My hometeacher came last night and told me about this. 

Not saying anything Sunday, it just sounds incredibly strange. 

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

My hometeacher came last night and told me about this. 

That's good that he told you.  It's better if he tells your Stake President so that you are better prepared for tighter border inspections next time.  Then the Stake can instill a policy on what to do during border inspections.  Like - 1.) show them your temple recommend, 2.) show them any Family History paper if you have them that you're bringing to the temple, 3.) a basic overview of temple ordinances for general public consumption, 4.) a reminder to always be respectful of border patrol agents.  They have a job and a mission to protect the US.  A reminder to everyone about Article 12 would go a long way.

[Sunday21]

8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

As a kid and teenager you used to be able to cross without a passport. I remember doing so many times. The border patrol would look at you and basically say "No drugs? Eh, go on in" And leave you at that. After 9/11 it all changed. I remember getting stopped once with LG and the customs agent asked if I had a passport. I was stunned. I stammered, "um, eh, er...you need one?" We had our car searched once---everything changed after 9/11. 

Not saying anything Sunday, it just sounds incredibly strange. 

My home-teacher, a patron, goes with 3 temple workers. The guards wanted to know why the home teacher’s story was so different from one of the male temple workers. My home teacher said, because I am a member of the audience. 

I never tell the border that I work in the temple as a member of the bishopric told me that this statement got him into trouble. Anyway, I hope to spend a lot of time in the temple this summer but I think that I will go alone.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Sunday21

[Sunday21]

3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

That's good that he told you.  It's better if he tells your Stake President so that you are better prepared for tighter border inspections next time.  Then the Stake can instill a policy on what to do during border inspections.  Like - 1.) show them your temple recommend, 2.) show them any Family History paper if you have them that you're bringing to the temple, 3.) a basic overview of temple ordinances for general public consumption, 4.) a reminder to always be respectful of border patrol agents.  They have a job and a mission to protect the US.  A reminder to everyone about Article 12 would go a long way.

True!

[Sunday21]

@MormonGator. I attend international conferences every once and a while and I am sometimes pulled aside by someone who tells me their Canada story. How awful we treated them at the border. How badly Air Canada treated them. How badly a Canadian official treated them.

Mind you, Air Canada and Canadian officials (including Canadian border services) have been pretty miserable to me too! 

A canadian border official once grabbed my passport from me at the baggage carousel and started quizzing me about my hometown (which is no more than a pimple on the landscape). As someone who lectures for a living, can I talk! Hilariously the border official was dressed like a very unconvincing tacky tourist. Eventually after I described in great detail the ‘Trial of the Century’ that occurred in this microscopic town, she returned my passport. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Sunday21

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@MormonGator. I attend international conferences every once and a while and I am sometimes pulled aside by someone who tells me their Canada story. How awful we treated them at the border. How badly Air Canada treated them. How badly a Canadian official treated them.

Mind you, Air Canada and Canadian officials (including Canadian border services) have been pretty miserable to me too! 

A canadian border official once grabbed my passport from me at the baggage carousel and started quizzing me about my hometown (which is no more than a pimple on the landscape). As someone who lectures for a living, can I talk! Hilariously the border official was dressed like a very unconvincing tacky tourist. Eventually after I described in great detail the ‘Trial of the Century’ that occurred in this microscopic town, she returned my passport. 

I have several wild experiences with Customs... okay, so usually customs give you that quick interview right when you get out of the airplane... if the inspector is not satisfied with how the interview went you get sent to the thorough inspection where you get a more intimidating interview.  So, I got sent to the 2nd interview and I am quite positive it is because I had 10 hours between my international flight and my domestic flight - I was hoping to go visit my cousin first and the 1st interviewer asked me who I'm visiting and me being the motor-mouth that I am told him I hope to visit my cousin and the interviewer asked if she's waiting for me outside and I told him no, I was going to just surprise her... I got sent to the 2nd interview.  Ugh.  But, not only that, I had to open my 2 balikbayan boxes where I had a package of dried squid and they opened the package!  The stinkiness of dried squid is so strong and they just put it right back into the box with the package open... I had to air the entire box for a week before the smell on the other stuff in there dissipated!

But, I found out when I first flew out with my kid - who has a US passport - that I can actually go in the line for US citizens through customs!  I haven't had too many wild incidences there - well, there was the time they asked my son what the name of his mother was and he answered with my name - which is not the same as my passport name (long story - I have a lot of names)... that was a mess - I ended up giving the guy a long story about my many names making everybody in line behind me give me those "Stop talking already, we are tired and don't want to wait this long!" looks.

Anyway, there are nice agents (so nice I wonder how they can remain chipper at 2am!) and there are rude agents and there are agents who are like robots - bam bam out you go.

[Sunday21]

@anatess2Yes! I know what you mean! My sister has forbidden me from crossing the border with my niece, just in case! My niece has crossed the border with school trips so probably, it would be fine ...but you never know!

Once, after 9/11, I was with a a Chinese professor and her Canadian, from China, friends. The whole group wanted to walk the Niagara bridge to USA and then turn around and return to Canada. No passports on anyone. I begged them not to do this. They laughed at me. Sigh I went along.

We got back to Canada. Canadian Border patrol yelled at us. Ordered the Canadians to get lost while they interrogated the Chinese lady. I refused to leave the Chinese lady and told the border guards that my university expected me to look after the Chinese professor and return her in one piece. Eventually the border guards gave us a good chewing out and let us go. I insisted on ice cream after that one!

i try never to mess with border guards!

Edited February 21, 2018 by Sunday21

[anatess2]

16 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@anatess2Yes! I know what you mean! My sister has forbidden me from crossing the border with my niece, just in case! My niece has crossed the border with school trips so probably, it would be fine ...but you never know!

Once, after 9/11, I was with a a Chinese professor and her Canadian, from China, friends. The whole group wanted to walk the Niagara bridge to USA and then turn around and return to Canada. No passports on anyone. I begged them not to do this. They laughed at me. Sigh I went along.

We got back to Canada. Canadian Border patrol yelled at us. Ordered the Canadians to get lost while they interagated the Chinese lady. I refused to leave the Chinese lady and told the border guards that my university expected me to look after the Chinese professor and return her in one piece. Eventually the border guards gave us a good chewing out and let’s us go. I insisted on ice cream after that one!

i try never to mess with border guards!

I have a friend who came to the US on a tourist visa.  She was given 6 months stay in her entry papers.  Well, instead of going home after 6 months, she decides to blow off her return ticket to go on a 10-day cruise with some friends to the Bahamas.  Needless to say, she wasn't allowed to go through customs when she got off the cruise.  She ended up staying at a hotel paid for by the US govt (it was like a house arrest) until she got her return ticket wherein she got delivered straight to the airport.  She had to get her stuff that she left behind shipped home.  But she thought it was well worth it for the 10-day cruise. 

[Sunday21]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

I have a friend who came to the US on a tourist visa.  She was given 6 months stay in her entry papers.  Well, instead of going home after 6 months, she decides to blow off her return ticket to go on a 10-day cruise with some friends to the Bahamas.  Needless to say, she wasn't allowed to go through customs when she got off the cruise.  She ended up staying at a hotel paid for by the US govt (it was like a house arrest) until she got her return ticket wherein she got delivered straight to the airport.  She had to get her stuff that she left behind shipped home.  But she thought it was well worth it for the 10-day cruise. 

What! Why do people do these things? I have a friend who somehow or other ended up by mistake on the US side of the Canadian border somewhere in the Canadian parries. This was pre 9/11 and the border guard, wanting to do him a favor, ‘denied entrance’ which allowed him to turn around and use the same path to return to Canada. BUT now post 9/11, my friend has ‘denied’ entrance’ on his file so he is now afraid to visit his girlfriend in the US. They broke up.

Must not mess with the border!

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

@MormonGator. I attend international conferences every once and a while and I am sometimes pulled aside by someone who tells me their Canada story. How awful we treated them at the border. How badly Air Canada treated them. How badly a Canadian official treated them.

Mind you, Air Canada and Canadian officials (including Canadian border services) have been pretty miserable to me too! 

A canadian border official once grabbed my passport from me at the baggage carousel and started quizzing me about my hometown (which is no more than a pimple on the landscape). As someone who lectures for a living, can I talk! Hilariously the border official was dressed like a very unconvincing tacky tourist. Eventually after I described in great detail the ‘Trial of the Century’ that occurred in this microscopic town, she returned my passport. 

True, I've heard some horror stories about Canadian border patrol officers too. 
 

[Sunday21]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

True, I've heard some horror stories about Canadian border patrol officers too. 
 

They can be very nasty! I have had some American friends be left cooling their heels for hours...no explanation. No apology. Why?

 

[anatess2]

10 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

What! Why do people do these things? I have a friend who somehow or other ended up by mistake on the US side of the Canadian border somewhere in the Canadian parries. This was pre 9/11 and the border guard, wanting to do him a favor, ‘denied entrance’ which allowed him to turn around and use the same path to return to Canada. BUT now post 9/11, my friend has ‘denied’ entrance’ on his file so he is now afraid to visit his girlfriend in the US. They broke up.

Must not mess with the border!

EXACTLY!  My friend has applied for another tourist visa.  Denied.